Player Discussion: Vesalainen Thread

[GumbyCan2]

Jets will be out of the playoff race soon enough and there will be time to audition these guys.

How about "auditioning" this coaching staff/systems to junior hockey kevel markets? Not cutting it here anymore (actually fof a few years!)

 

[BoneDocUK]

There are 23 players in league history that have played in exactly 35 games for their entire career, same number that KV has played to date in his career.

Of those 23 players he is 21st in points with a grand total of 3.

He has 1 goal and 2 assists for a total of 3 points in 35 games played.

He has never taken so much as a minor penalty in those 35 games and is good for about .6 shots per game which would extrapolate to 44 shots in 82 games.

What does he do out there exactly?

He was so cocky on draft day when we picked him and for this?

For those staunch Vesalainen supporters out there, please tell me why the Jets give him so much rope when Gus, Reichel, and Suess deserve fair shots in the bottom 6.

I feel like "staunch Vesalainen supporters" overstates the case. I guess I'd consider myself a "Do all we can to support our better prospects because they're what we've got" kinda guy. But to your last question:

1) Gus: Injuries
2) Reichel: Played well and was trusted in the top 9 before injuries
3) The Doc: Injuries, and has underwhelmed (IMO) in the several opportunities he's had with the Jets. But mostly, injured.

I don't have much to say about his cockiness on draft day. Not sure I'd put much stock in a prospect's draft-day demeanour as a guide to career progress but if he was, so what? He's a Jets prospect, and he's either going to continue to develop and be a team asset, or he's going to represent a failed pick and failed asset. I know which outcome I'd prefer.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Should have suckered him in with Laine & Roslo and tried to get ... oh well. Never mind. Stuck with him until he goes back to the Liiga probably.

 

[JetsFan815]

Until I see this kid play a whole game on wing with 55 or PLD how can we know anything?

He's had chances with PLD. Regardless, you don't need to play with those guys to show something. You don't have to score but find a way to contribute by throwing some hits, or making life difficult for the other team on the forecheck or stringing together some dominant offensive zone shifts even if you don't score. Guys like Tanev, Copp, Lowry, Armia, Perreault, Hendricks, Stempniak, Appleton have all managed to stand out while playing in the bottom-6 without linemates as talented as 55 and 80.

And how is our top-6 winning us anything big or consistently as is? Experimental head coach trial with the same/similar mediocre to deteriating cast around. Why not experimental top-line youth for the he_ _ of it?
This season has shown nanagement's ineptness at "fixes".

I am not sure I get how not playing a guy in the top-6 who has 3 points in 47 games this season shows management's "ineptness". I agree that the management/coaches are too rigid when coming up with creative solutions but don't see how moving a guy with lower NHL level production than Anthony Peluso into the top-6 is the answer to the Jets woes.

 

[DRW204]

By no means am I saying he is a wasted pick. But he hasn't done well to date. He could score 15-20 goals as a bottom 6er next year and that'll be a major boon for us. But 2g/40+ gp, and production lesser than the dregs Chevy typicaly signs, he's been a massive disappointment this season, and one of the reasons we lack depth scoring.

Edit: I have also said in the past I find he's not quick enough to get his shot off in the nhl. This could be a two fold problem thouhh, could be his individual shooting, or a playmaker that's not getting him the puck quick enough/at opportune times. I don't think Lowry meshes well with skilled or scoring forwards so I do think Ves might have a better showing with a different C. But like mentioned before he did have some time with PLD or scheifele, and nothing really jumped off the ice for him.

No, he isn't, and maybe he'll turn out to be an absolutely wasted pick and suck, and will wash out of the NHL in a few years' time.

But I think that the difference between fans (not calling you out here) shouting "Bust!" and an org agreeing, when it's a 1st-round pick is pretty marked, as the treatment of Stanley shows. So then the question is, "What do we do with this player who still has a necessary skillset and upside but hasn't made his mark this season?"

Maybe, like Svetch, he can be a third piece on a line that's otherwise above his pay grade, and tunes his game to become a solid puck-pursuit player who can unleash a beast of a shot, as he did last night, and starts to develop into that role and become something of value to the Jets. Or maybe the next coach starts to build a 4-line team with a more equitable ToI distribution, attacking in waves (perhaps not very big or awe-inspiring waves at first) and getting closer to how the best teams deploy.

Before any of that, though, I really think with @Jet that he needs to go down to the A and get some confidence and some time and space to do it in, without the fear of failure that seems to be reserved on this team exclusively for young players.

 

[GumbyCan2]

He's had chances with PLD. Regardless, you don't need to play with those guys to show something. You don't have to score but find a way to contribute by throwing some hits, or making life difficult for the other team on the forecheck or stringing together some dominant offensive zone shifts even if you don't score. Guys like Tanev, Copp, Lowry, Armia, Perreault, Hendricks, Stempniak, Appleton have all managed to stand out while playing in the bottom-6 without linemates as talented as 55 and 80.



I am not sure I get how not playing a guy in the top-6 who has 3 points in 47 games this season shows management's "ineptness". I agree that the management/coaches are too rigid when coming up with creative solutions but don't see how moving a guy with lower NHL level production than Anthony Peluso into the top-6 is the answer to the Jets woes.

Sorry, I needed to paraphrase I guess. I get it a Vesalainen with only 3 points is not an answer to fix all.
I just mean giving guys more important roles, icetime here and there, not relying on the "same old" with no real improved outcome, and actually regressing ( sonehow?).
Far too often I think the roster sutuation(s) combined with managemeht requestibg/ philisophy, etc and coaching player decisions in-game/ icetime have set a few potentially gifted draftees into mediocre roster fillers. No confidence allowed, no confidence gained.

 

[sipowicz]

Versa-Laine should be in the Moose until his contract ends and then sent packing to wherever, trade value is zilch!

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[bustamente]

He is not the player I had hoped he would be, just doesn't look like he has the desire and or the ability to play at the NHL level, not the last time I will be wrong about a player

 

[Duke749]

Why send him down? Who’s gonna take his spot right now? Not that he has proven much of anything but benching the 4th line seemed kind of pointless and it seems Lowry is not a fan of any of the guys.

 

[gojetsgo]

Why send him down? Who’s gonna take his spot right now? Not that he has proven much of anything but benching the 4th line seemed kind of pointless and it seems Lowry is not a fan of any of the guys.

moose playoffs

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Duke749]

moose playoffs

Makes sense.

Oh no….

 

[hockeyarena]

Hopefully he gets pissy and bolts to the khl (if it still exists nest year)

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Oh no is right. Makes me think they have serious thoughts of being a buyer on Monday. If they beat Chicago tomorrow (not exactly a guarantee with this group given their inconsistent efforts), I think there is a better than 50-50 chance they make some sort of acquisition and keep Copp and Stastny.

 

[tbcwpg]

Oh no is right. Makes me think they have serious thoughts of being a buyer on Monday. If they beat Chicago tomorrow (not exactly a guarantee with this group given their inconsistent efforts), I think there is a better than 50-50 chance they make some sort of acquisition and keep Copp and Stastny.

I don't know if it means they'll be a buyer necessarily. It gives them flexibility to make a move, the move would be minor I'd think.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't know if it means they'll be a buyer necessarily. It gives them flexibility to make a move, the move would be minor I'd think.

Yep. It even allows them to take on money to facilitate selling if the Jets are forced to take on more than they send out.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why send him down? Who’s gonna take his spot right now? Not that he has proven much of anything but benching the 4th line seemed kind of pointless and it seems Lowry is not a fan of any of the guys.

He is still only 22. Maybe playing with the Moose he might regain some confidence.

Edit: Also save money, save cap space and help Moose.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Oh no is right. Makes me think they have serious thoughts of being a buyer on Monday. If they beat Chicago tomorrow (not exactly a guarantee with this group given their inconsistent efforts), I think there is a better than 50-50 chance they make some sort of acquisition and keep Copp and Stastny.

At this point? That would be a firing offense.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I haven't given up on Ves...yet. Maybe there is a 3rd liner/middle six player there with the right coach. Time is running out though. He will be starting his draft plus 6 season next year. Getting close to bust status at this point.

 

[MardyBum]

Might be nothing but this could make sense.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I haven't given up on Ves...yet. Maybe there is a 3rd liner/middle six player there with the right coach. Time is running out though. He will be starting his draft plus 6 season next year. Getting close to bust status at this point.

Me neither. He's worked hard and for the most part played as asked without committing a ton of egregious errors and he hasn't lost the size or skillset that made him such a dangerous player and intriguing prospect. I think he needs a major and sustained boost of confidence and some honing of in-game awareness, and he should be ready to contribute much more next season, especially in a pairing with Gus + whoever.

He's young, he's a power forward, and he's a Finn, who is definitely closer to Puju or Armia in terms of trajectory than a Laine -- so yeah, maybe a longer-term project but still think he'll turn it around, and as with all of our prospects, will keep the faith until the time comes to pay the man or cut bait.

 

[ecolad]

Me neither. He's worked hard and for the most part played as asked without committing a ton of egregious errors and he hasn't lost the size or skillset that made him such a dangerous player and intriguing prospect. I think he needs a major and sustained boost of confidence and some honing of in-game awareness, and he should be ready to contribute much more next season, especially in a pairing with Gus + whoever.

He's young, he's a power forward, and he's a Finn, who is definitely closer to Puju or Armia in terms of trajectory than a Laine -- so yeah, maybe a longer-term project but still think he'll turn it around, and as with all of our prospects, will keep the faith until the time comes to pay the man or cut bait.

Yeah, I'm with you on this. But I still can't help feeling that the Ves we see on the ice is a direct product of a somewhat mis-guided development program implemented by the organization - one which made a very early decision that it would get most value from Ves by trying to totally re-shape him to be a dedicated low-risk checking winger with defense exclusively on his mind. Methinks he has concentrated so hard on becoming this type of specialist player that he no longer even contemplates making any offensive moves on the ice which would show his natural puck handling/shooting skills. He is literally over-thinking every move he makes on the ice - which of course puts him into a slower read and react mode. So sad to watch - but like you I continue to watch for signs that Ves can adjust back to balanced hockey.[ Playing him with a C other than Lowry might facilitate this occuring as well]

 

[surixon]

Yeah, I'm with you on this. But I still can't help feeling that the Ves we see on the ice is a direct product of a somewhat mis-guided development program implemented by the organization - one which made a very early decision that it would get most value from Ves by trying to totally re-shape him to be a dedicated low-risk checking winger with defense exclusively on his mind. Methinks he has concentrated so hard on becoming this type of specialist player that he no longer even contemplates making any offensive moves on the ice which would show his natural puck handling/shooting skills. He is literally over-thinking every move he makes on the ice - which of course puts him into a slower read and react mode. So sad to watch - but like you I continue to watch for signs that Ves can adjust back to balanced hockey.[ Playing him with a C other than Lowry might facilitate this occuring as well]

Pretty much what I see as well. Its a product of not having a spot for him in the top 6 so he needs to be all out defense in our bottom 6. I hate the way the org views things as top 6 vs bottom 6. We need to look at it as top 9 and a fourth line.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Me neither. He's worked hard and for the most part played as asked without committing a ton of egregious errors and he hasn't lost the size or skillset that made him such a dangerous player and intriguing prospect. I think he needs a major and sustained boost of confidence and some honing of in-game awareness, and he should be ready to contribute much more next season, especially in a pairing with Gus + whoever.

He's young, he's a power forward, and he's a Finn, who is definitely closer to Puju or Armia in terms of trajectory than a Laine -- so yeah, maybe a longer-term project but still think he'll turn it around, and as with all of our prospects, will keep the faith until the time comes to pay the man or cut bait.

I hope you're right but I wouldn't be betting the farm on him. He is really slow with, imo, poor skating mechanics. That bobble head motion of his when he's skating screams....get me a power skating coach. This stuff that is usually corrected at the minor hockey level. Hopefully, it's not too late. I'm pulling for him but he's running out of runway.