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Player Discussion: Vesalainen Thread

Mortimer Snerd

Mortimer Snerd

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Jet said:
I doubt it. Players are coached for most of their lives so a coach at the NHL level is such a small part of their development, and really isn't going to transform a players game. You look at a guy like Perfetti or Laine when he came into the league, he just used his skill to get that shot away and score.

They say that at the NHL it's 75% mental and 25% skill and you can really see that play out. Players who are extremely skilled can't figure it out, and players who are lower skill (in an NHL sense) find a way to play and succeed in that environment.

Vesalainen has to do one of two things to become successful at this level:

Use his big body to forecheck and wreak havoc a la Dubois, or
Find a way to get into soft spots to get that shot away, and improve his release

I don't think he's going to do A - some guys just don't have it in them (though Svechnikov is starting to do a lot more of that and he's really blossomed)
I think he can do B - but he needs to make that a focus in practice and offseason training.
Click to expand...

So, are you rejecting the idea that Jets tried to change him? Because that would be Maurice's influence on the org, not just on the player. Someone in the org decided to turn him into a defensive grinder. If not Mo, then who?
 

BoneDocUK

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Mortimer Snerd said:
So, are you rejecting the idea that Jets tried to change him? Because that would be Maurice's influence on the org, not just on the player. Someone in the org decided to turn him into a defensive grinder. If not Mo, then who?
Click to expand...

There were several comments and interview segments from Vincent regarding Ves' development, where he talks explicitly about what they are working on and towards. This has not been a case of "go out and play," which is fine given the skill set and areas for improvement that Ves brought to the table.

But I think it's a mistake to assume that a player can't be harmed in development by organizational blind spots or preferences as well s by his own gaps in skills, hockey IQ, injuries, whatevs.

Look at Owen Tippet -- many of the same things said about Ves have been said about him. Big body, non-linear dev path, shows flashes and then retreats, even on a high-powered line. Some players take longer to put it together, but I don't think there's any doubt that the Jets' roster-building and line-deployment fixation has impacted development for a few players now. Just ask 2019 Andrew Copp.
 
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TS Quint

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Mortimer Snerd said:
So, are you rejecting the idea that Jets tried to change him? Because that would be Maurice's influence on the org, not just on the player. Someone in the org decided to turn him into a defensive grinder. If not Mo, then who?
Click to expand...
I’m confused. You think they are changing him from what exactly to a “defensive grinder”.
 
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Jet

Jet

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Mortimer Snerd said:
So, are you rejecting the idea that Jets tried to change him? Because that would be Maurice's influence on the org, not just on the player. Someone in the org decided to turn him into a defensive grinder. If not Mo, then who?
Click to expand...
I think they gave him more than one opportunity to be an offensive forward with good players.

3 points in over 50 games. He's not an offensive forward at this point so if he can't be a grinder he's nothing and here we are.

I think the Jets were trying to keep him in the lineup to see if he could figure something out and he hasn't.

Svechnikov was given the same treatment and he's done something with it in less games.
 
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TS Quint

Stop writing “I mean” in your posts.
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Mortimer Snerd said:
He was supposed to have offence, a big shot, decent speed. Maybe call him a power forward.
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when was he any of that? When he was 17? He was considered a top pick the year before his draft and fell like a rock ever since. He was never any of that with the Moose or Jokerit. His speed isn’t decent, that isn’t the Jets fault.

Ves is a salvage project at this point because he isn’t what he was supposed to be when they drafted him. From what we have seen this year he’s a bust. I’m not holding my breath on a 22 year old who I can’t see anything he is good at. If the Jets can turn him into a grinder, which I’m not saying that is what they are doing, but at least that would be some thing. Right now he is part of the reason why the Jets are as bad as they are along with Poganski , Toninado, Reichel, etc who should be depth players on the Moose and not 3rd liners on a NHL team.
 
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nobody imp0rtant

nobody imp0rtant

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Was hoping Ves might be part of a deal today.
disappointment-disappointment-sigh.gif
 
GumbyCan2

GumbyCan2

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Guffman said:
Our recent Finnish players just don't seem to work out.
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Just about all are close to "finnsh'd". Hopefully not on upcoming Heinola, if he ever gets a full opportunity ( I guess I should state when') and by some miracle there is a new, better D-Coach running the practises, pairings, icetime and "how to play in today's game defensively! Pipeline heretics gone awry i'd say?
 
WolfgangPuck

WolfgangPuck

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Jets have been lucky with the 1st rounders but sometimes it just doesnt work out
Ves expectation was top 6 forward yet he having trouble keeping a spot on the bottom 6
Remember Burmistrov? wasnt good enough to be top 6
had to play with thorburn on the 4th line and never develop into a grinder either
 

Slimy Sculpin

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WolfgangPuck said:
Jets have been lucky with the 1st rounders but sometimes it just doesnt work out
Ves expectation was top 6 forward yet he having trouble keeping a spot on the bottom 6
Remember Burmistrov? wasnt good enough to be top 6
had to play with thorburn on the 4th line and never develop into a grinder either
Click to expand...
I'm trying (really hard) to picture Burmistrov as a grinder.
 
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Duke749

Duke749

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WolfgangPuck said:
Jets have been lucky with the 1st rounders but sometimes it just doesnt work out
Ves expectation was top 6 forward yet he having trouble keeping a spot on the bottom 6
Remember Burmistrov? wasnt good enough to be top 6
had to play with thorburn on the 4th line and never develop into a grinder either
Click to expand...

Shit, Burmistrov had far more success before he went to the KHL. Ves hasn’t even reached that yet.
 
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FonRiesen

FonRiesen

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DRW204 said:
People in this forum want our forth line playing like 10-15mins or wheeler on the fourth line an Ves promoted up. Like what?
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Nah, but I think Svech deserves to be in the top 6. He brings the intensity and fits well in Wheeler's spot.

Vesa has always been a 'potential' guy, and I thought there were flashes at the AHL level, but he really hasn't done much.

If it was just the KHL that hampered his development, like I used to think, then he should be over that by now. Unless he's just a REALLY slow learner...
 
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Mortimer Snerd

Mortimer Snerd

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FonRiesen said:
IIRC, pre-draft and in the KHL he was more of a Powerplay specialist, right? I recall seeing some nice one-timer highlights where he had time and space.
Click to expand...

Could be. I remember highlights of him skating down the wing and blasting it.
 
WolfHouse

WolfHouse

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FonRiesen said:
Nah, but I think Svech deserves to be in the top 6. He brings the intensity and fits well in Wheeler's spot.

Vesa has always been a 'potential' guy, and I thought there were flashes at the AHL level, but he really hasn't done much.

If it was just the KHL that hampered his development, like I used to think, then he should be over that by now. Unless he's just a REALLY slow learner...
Click to expand...
Just really strange that we never saw his shot utilized in the NHL... maybe he just never touched the puck enough...
 
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