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Vegas / Anaheim voided Dadonov trade (upd: Ottawa forfeits 1st 24-26)

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gstommylee said:
whether or not he has a NTC is irrelevant its whether everyone has the darn list. If vegas didn't have the list and the league didn't have the list but ottawa does thats on ottawa.
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No, it is not.

It is Vegas's responsibility to ask for the darn list before they trade the darn player.

I mean, yeah, Ottawa should have given it to them. But how can you trade a player without verifying that info?
 
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Scandale du Jour said:
No, it is not.

It is Vegas's responsibility to ask for the darn list before they trade the darn player.

I mean, yeah, Ottawa should have given it to them. But how can you trade a player without verifying that info?
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Why do only teams have the list. If the nhl has to approve trades they should be the ones who get a copy of everything. Trade lists included. That way only what is on the nhl files is the final. If a player updates the list then that list needs to be with the nhl too so that they can verify the trade.

Just more egg on the nhl.
 
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StreetHawk said:
Why do only teams have the list. If the nhl has to approve trades they should be the ones who get a copy of everything. Trade lists included. That way only what is on the nhl files is the final. If a player updates the list then that list needs to be with the nhl too so that they can verify the trade.

Just more egg on the nhl.
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Honestly, it should just be in a centralized database that all teams AND the league have access to.

In 2022, it is rather freaking easy to do... a centralized contract DB.
 
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Boris Zubov said:
Ok, it might not be hearsay...it could turn into he said, she said.

Vegas, "Ottawa told us he didn't submit he NT list".
Ottawa, "No we didn't".
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Sure. But "he said, she said" isn't hearsay. That's my point.

Hearsay is (generally) inadmissible in court. Uncorroborated evidence is admissible - it just the is up to the trier of fact to decide who to believe.
 
Is there anyone else who thinks the biggest surprise of this story is that someone would list Anaheim on a no-trade list?

I mean I know they haven't been great, but sunny southern california I thought would be a big draw...
 
Yukon Joe said:
Sure. But "he said, she said" isn't hearsay. That's my point.

Hearsay is (generally) inadmissible in court. Uncorroborated evidence is admissible - it just the is up to the trier of fact to decide who to believe.
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Isn't Hearsay any statement made our of court relating to the matter at hand (or something along those lines) Like in theory if the trade call was recorded and say Ottawa tell vegas there is no valid no trade list, that recording would still consitute hearsay. Not saying this is what happened. I would assume trade calls are recorded.
 
hangman005 said:
Isn't Hearsay any statement made our of court relating to the matter at hand (or something along those lines) Like in theory if the trade call was recorded and say Ottawa tell vegas there is no valid no trade list, that recording would still consitute hearsay. Not saying this is what happened. I would assume trade calls are recorded.
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I’m no lawyer, but I’ve watched enough Law & Order (original) to say that I believe hearsay is when I say something like “X person told me that Y person told him that the 10 team list was submitted.”

For that to not be hearsay, X person would need to testify, not me.

It’s pretty much the children’s game telephone.
 
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Kane One said:
I’m no lawyer, but I’ve watched enough Law & Order (original) to say that I believe hearsay is when I say something like “X person told me that Y person told him that the 10 team list was submitted.”

For that to not be hearsay, X person would need to testify, not me.

It’s pretty much the children’s game telephone.
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Me I'm no lawyer either, though I do watch Legal Eagle on youtube because I do find it interesting, at least the theoretically side as opposed to the transactional.

Here's the official defination

"Hearsay is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted." as per the Federal Rules of Evidence.
 
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MNNumbers said:
This is a really bad look for the league for several reasons:

1- Are we so incompetent that we can't even keep track of players' contracts? I don't think it really matters if Ottawa didn't pass along the NTC list when he was traded before. Every GM knows that a bunch of players have NMCs and NTCs. It should be standard procedure to be checking these things often. Very bad look for Vegas.

2- Is the league also so incompetent? That trade goes through the usual call to league offices. Everyone there should be checking on the NMCs and NTCs as well. Why didn't they stop the news immediately?

3- The only reason for the trade in the first place is that Vegas is using the LTIR provision so they can ice a team with a salary value higher than the cap in the playoffs. That's 3 times that has been done now, and it needs to stop. There needs to be a provision placed which says something like "Except for minor league call ups, the roster for a playoff team which is dressed for each playoff game must not have a cumulative cap hit in the season just ended which exceeds the Salary Cap Limit."

Just bad. Like usual for the NHL.
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17 teams are currently above the salary cap.
 
sabresfan65 said:
17 teams are currently above the salary cap.
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How many teams are above the salary cap presently does not change the fact that there should be rules in play to prevent teams from stuffing players onto LTIR solely for the use of having them available for the playoffs. If the rules prevented it from happening, teams wouldn't be above the cap.
 
MNNumbers said:
How many teams are above the salary cap presently does not change the fact that there should be rules in play to prevent teams from stuffing players onto LTIR solely for the use of having them available for the playoffs. If the rules prevented it from happening, teams wouldn't be above the cap.
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It is relevant because as long as half the league is doing it, they aren't going to do anything about it.
 
hangman005 said:
Me I'm no lawyer either, though I do watch Legal Eagle on youtube because I do find it interesting, at least the theoretically side as opposed to the transactional.

Here's the official defination

"Hearsay is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted." as per the Federal Rules of Evidence.
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Yes. Using my example, my testimony cannot be offered as evidence to prove the truth, however Person X can, as he is a first hand witness, while I am not.
 
Yukon Joe said:
Is there anyone else who thinks the biggest surprise of this story is that someone would list Anaheim on a no-trade list?

I mean I know they haven't been great, but sunny southern california I thought would be a big draw...
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Unless you don't want to pay the California income tax (as opposed to the handful of teams in no-income tax states).
 
LadyStanley said:
Check out this Podcast: Marek & Friedman: Making Sense of the Dadonov Situation Marek & Friedman: Making Sense Of The Dadonov Situation The Jeff Marek Show podcast

Currently no central depository of no trade lists; lists held by teams. Friedman thinks that will change after this situation.
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Seriously. WTF? NTC or partial ntc are so commonplace in the nhl. How does a multi billion dollar business operate so archaic to not have a central place that holds those lists?
 
gstommylee said:
They didn't see it as necessary.
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Like 1/4 of players hold some form of ntc. Think the nhl would have centralized everything rather than be a mediator for this issue. Like 30 years ago the Nordiques traded Lindroos twice to rangers and flyers.

That way only what is recorded at the registry is final. But it’s the nhl and they aren’t exactly progressive..
 
StreetHawk said:
Like 1/4 of players hold some form of ntc. Think the nhl would have centralized everything rather than be a mediator for this issue. Like 30 years ago the Nordiques traded Lindroos twice to rangers and flyers.

That way only what is recorded at the registry is final. But it’s the nhl and they aren’t exactly progressive..
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Cause they aren't proactive at preventing an issue that they don't see happening...
 
MNNumbers said:
This is a really bad look for the league for several reasons:

1- Are we so incompetent that we can't even keep track of players' contracts? I don't think it really matters if Ottawa didn't pass along the NTC list when he was traded before. Every GM knows that a bunch of players have NMCs and NTCs. It should be standard procedure to be checking these things often. Very bad look for Vegas.

2- Is the league also so incompetent? That trade goes through the usual call to league offices. Everyone there should be checking on the NMCs and NTCs as well. Why didn't they stop the news immediately?

3- The only reason for the trade in the first place is that Vegas is using the LTIR provision so they can ice a team with a salary value higher than the cap in the playoffs. That's 3 times that has been done now, and it needs to stop. There needs to be a provision placed which says something like "Except for minor league call ups, the roster for a playoff team which is dressed for each playoff game must not have a cumulative cap hit in the season just ended which exceeds the Salary Cap Limit."

Just bad. Like usual for the NHL.
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I don't think it makes the league itself look bad, it makes Vegas look pretty damn foolish though... heck, Cap Friendly was even showing the NTC on his contract.

If it were me, it wouldn't be Kelly McCrimmon's problem to fix, he'd already be out of a job.
 
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