Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[Ford Prefect]

I think the easiest way to balance things out would be to have a rule that if the player is on LTIR on the last game of the season they are ineligible for the playoffs. Make sure they're a cap compliant team heading into the playoffs. Really discourage the players (Kucherov) that might be fine the last week of the season but only come off on Day 1 of the playoffs. And to discourage teams trying to stack the deck for the playoffs.

 

[TheBeard]

Would it also be fair to say that part of the fan outrage comes from the known calibre of players that this has happened with?

I'm sure that's part of it. If it were, say David Clarkson, Vegas would have announced he was done for the season almost immediately and no one would have batted an eyelash.

 

[Voight]

The NHL is backed into a corner now regarding fixing the issue. If they close the loophole they are admitting that at least, 2 of Tampas Stanley cups and Vegas's cups have an *. I mean, as fans we already know the * cups to be true, but I don't think the league wants to officially admit that.


I know you're being a smartass about it, but I really don't think anybody is surprised by this, quite the opposite.

Speak for yourself.... I dont have an asterisk on any of those.

I wouldn't put one if they actually cheated, like the Houston Astros in 2017.

 

[TheBeard]

Regardless, LTIR is available to all 32 franchises if the need arises.

I'm so tired of people using this as some sort of justification of its legitimacy.

 

[Ol' Jase]

It’s hilarious that the fans justifying this can’t objectively look at the fact that the same player has been in the same situation 3 years in a row and see it as nothing more than a legitimate coincidence.

The results that come about from these situations result in a distinct competitive advantage, as we have seen in both the Tampa and Vegas Cup wins.

When everything is said and done, Vegas will have a starting roster they would not have been able to have less than a week before. Again. With the same player being involved.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Someone told me that Hertl has been playing wing since the trade. Going into the playoffs, it's going to be tough to match this roster line for line. If Cassidy wanted 3 scoring lines, he can move Hertl to the third line to play with Karlsson and re-unite last years playoff line of Howden - Stephenson - Stone.

Barbashev - Eichel - Marchessault
Hertl - Stephenson - Stone
Dorofeyev - Karlsson - Mantha
Amadio/Howden - Roy - Kolesar

X - Carrier

Vegas is deep as F****.

Then you got Hanifin added on their defense. The defending cup champs have a strong case for repeating unfortunately.

If Aiden Hill continues where he left off from last playoffs, I can't see any team taking them out.

 

[57special]

When these guys are just back in time for game 1 it’s too …ng obvious

Nope just can’t play in game 82 but next day you are 100% cleared to play, the day the cap disappears

I'm sure it's some rare medical condition. SalaryCircumventionItis.

NHL can be such head in the sand losers, at times.

 

[gritdash60]

I hope Stone is a complete no-show on the ice and skates like me. Which wont happen because he wouldnt be in the lineup if he was, but can we at least have a goal scored against Vegas that bounces of his shinpad please.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Someone told me that Hertl has been playing wing since the trade. Going into the playoffs, it's going to be tough to match this roster line for line. If Cassidy wanted 3 scoring lines, he can move Hertl to the third line to play with Karlsson and re-unite last years playoff line of Howden - Stephenson - Stone.

Barbashev - Eichel - Marchessault
Hertl - Stephenson - Stone
Dorofeyev - Karlsson - Mantha
Amadio/Howden - Roy - Kolesar

X - Carrier

Vegas is deep as F****.

Now calculate the regular season cap hits of that lineup. I could even accept having all the players available but you can only ice a cap compliant team. Take a short bench? Rotate the high end guys?

That should be the solution, you have the cap to play with 15 skaters, or rotate everyone in and out on a night to night basis.

How many games has your team played with a short bench in the regular season?

The games are more important now not less.

But when they start game 1 with a non compliant team, no one can tell me it's not an advantage.

 

[pantherbot]

I think the easiest way to balance things out would be to have a rule that if the player is on LTIR on the last game of the season they are ineligible for the playoffs. Make sure they're a cap compliant team heading into the playoffs. Really discourage the players (Kucherov) that might be fine the last week of the season but only come off on Day 1 of the playoffs. And to discourage teams trying to stack the deck for the playoffs.

Actually this isn't the worst idea but I'd tweak it.

A team must have a cap compliant roster at the start of the playoffs based on each player's respective cap hit to that team for the season and any player on LTIR is ineligible for the playoffs.

Teams have a reasonable idea on if a player may be available for the playoffs. Maybe it's round 2 or 3, but if the player is important enough to the team, the team will make room. Yes a team would be shorthanded early on because of injury, but those are the breaks. They'll have to weigh the importance of the player vs. short-term gain in earlier rounds. Team's during the regular season also have to maintain unused cap for a player scheduled to return from injury, this isn't that different.

Still removes the cap for the playoffs. There's too many reasons why enforcing a cap through the playoffs is just too complicated and unlikely to get buy in from all parties involved.

This would accommodate for all the various reasons why enforcing a cap during the playoffs won't be easy. Takes into account teams accruing cap during the year as each player's cap hit will just be what their team has taken on. Still counts buyouts and retention in the calculation. Still allows for teams to make call ups and have flexibility during the playoffs in case it's injury.

Doesn't force a player back like with the suggestions a player must play in game 82. If the player is injured, then he's injured. No point forcing him back, but it does mean a team will be shorthanded, that's just how sports work.

LTIR is meant to provide relief, not complete replacement and to give the possibility of going over cap during playoffs. Pretty sure that's just an unintended consequence.

Unless there's good reason why this idea doesn't work or make sense, this is probably my go-to idea to fix the issue. Also way more likely to get agreement from the league then my way more fun previous suggestion to remove the cap after deadline...

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Now calculate the regular season cap hits of that lineup.

At least 10M over the cap unfortunately. It's criminal.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think the easiest way to balance things out would be to have a rule that if the player is on LTIR on the last game of the season they are ineligible for the playoffs. Make sure they're a cap compliant team heading into the playoffs. Really discourage the players (Kucherov) that might be fine the last week of the season but only come off on Day 1 of the playoffs. And to discourage teams trying to stack the deck for the playoffs.

No, this is bullshit. I am sorry. The NHL has the most restrictive cap in all of sports. How about we loosen up about this and not make the game boring? IT’s good for the game/league when teams stack up.

 

[hangman005]

Someone told me that Hertl has been playing wing since the trade. Going into the playoffs, it's going to be tough to match this roster line for line. If Cassidy wanted 3 scoring lines, he can move Hertl to the third line to play with Karlsson and re-unite last years playoff line of Howden - Stephenson - Stone.

Barbashev - Eichel - Marchessault
Hertl - Stephenson - Stone
Dorofeyev - Karlsson - Mantha
Amadio/Howden - Roy - Kolesar

X - Carrier

Vegas is deep as F****.

Then you got Hanifin added on their defense. The defending cup champs have a strong case for repeating unfortunately.

If Aiden Hill continues where he left off from last playoffs, I can't see any team taking them out.

Based on recent play, I think Logan Thompson should be starting. He's a complete unknown in the playoffs but has been fairly solid down the stretch this year and the year we missed.

To me it doensn't even come down to goaltending or Stone coming back it's really a matter of if the team can be bother to put in the effort again. I think if we played with urgency we could win without Stone, but I see it just as likely we go out in round one with Stone.

 

[Ford Prefect]

No, this is bullshit. I am sorry. The NHL has the most restrictive cap in all of sports. How about we loosen up about this and not make the game boring? IT’s good for the game/league when teams stack up.

Hey, I'm all for that. Soft cap with tax penalties (kinda like the baseball luxury tax but setting a hard cap 20% higher). Allowing a team to go over by 10-20% X-times over a X-year period. Allowing teams to roll over unused cap space.. I think almost anything would be better than what the league has in place at the moment.

But that's not the debate. The issue is with a hard cap in place, what is the best way to ensure it isn't abused. If you can't change the cap, then change the existing rules and interpretations.

I'm not sure on this point - To change the rules for cap compliancy in the playoffs, does it require approval from the NHLPA or can the league do it unilaterally?

Edit - And I do agree that it is good for the game to see some truly great teams; there will never be 76-79 Canadiens, 80-83 Islanders, 82-87 Oilers, 90-93 Penguins teams again with the current cap structure. And true excellence is the best way to promote the league, rather than a handful of really good teams and bad teams, and 75% mediocrity.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Based on recent play, I think Logan Thompson should be starting. He's a complete unknown in the playoffs but has been fairly solid down the stretch this year and the year we missed.

To me it doensn't even come down to goaltending or Stone coming back it's really a matter of if the team can be bother to put in the effort again. I think if we played with urgency we could win without Stone, but I see it just as likely we go out in round one with Stone.

I think Cassidy will have his squad motivated. Vegas has an advantage in net over most teams in the West, in that they have two capable goalies. So unless Thompson disappoints, I think Vegas will split the workload between them two.

I think Edmonton or Dallas has the best shot to take them out this year if their goalies play up to their potential.

I think with a new coach, Henrique and Perry added, the Oilers could beat them in 6 IF Skinner doesn't revert to playoff Skinner who let in backbreaking goals every game.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Based on recent play, I think Logan Thompson should be starting. He's a complete unknown in the playoffs but has been fairly solid down the stretch this year and the year we missed.

To me it doensn't even come down to goaltending or Stone coming back it's really a matter of if the team can be bother to put in the effort again. I think if we played with urgency we could win without Stone, but I see it just as likely we go out in round one with Stone.

Stop playing possum, we know you are responsible for it all. Shame on you and your kin!

 

[Vegas07]

A vast majority of fans have an issue with it. There's really not much disputing that unless you don't think social media is indicative of general sentiment.


Orrr players aren't still injured but understand the business of the game. Again, somehow Stone is an absolute ironman in playoffs despite opponents knowingly targeted obvious weak spots. He's yet to miss a playoff game his team has been involved in. Anyone rushing back wouldn't be able to handle the constant beating .

Look at the injuries the players on the Florida Panthers played with in the playoffs. Guys were seriously hurt with injuries that would cost them significant time in the regular season, but they were ironmen in the postseason. Stone also broke his wrist in the Finals. He played through it. In the regular season he wouldn’t.

A vast majority of fans have an issue with it? Where is the evidence? There could easily be a lot of fans that don’t participate in this discussion because they simply don’t care. As a result, you just see the comments from the fans that care the most.

A lot of comments on social media are just trollish, naive, or comments from fans that know very little and are just repeating what they read from someone else. It’s no wonder why the league doesn’t always listen to fans on social media. Also, seeing comments on social media is not the same as seeing the results of a scientific poll.

Also, the average fan on this forum probably knows more about hockey and topics involving the salary cap than the average fan in general, but even here I see comments from people saying things like Stone is faking it or Stone will be 100% on game 1.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Another idea, likely mentioned already, is that if a player is removed from LTIR the day they are cleared for practice. They automatically switch to IR and their cap hit is reinstated.

 

[Three On Zero]

Speak for yourself.... I dont have an asterisk on any of those.

I wouldn't put one if they actually cheated, like the Houston Astros in 2017.

Most hockey fans don’t have an asterisks besides those wins, they were won fairly under the rules that the NHL/NHLPA laid out. Just a few sour grapes

 

[Martin Skoula]

Hey, I'm all for that. Soft cap with tax penalties (kinda like the baseball luxury tax but setting a hard cap 20% higher). Allowing a team to go over by 10-20% X-times over a X-year period. Allowing teams to roll over unused cap space.. I think almost anything would be better than what the league has in place at the moment.

But that's not the debate. The issue is with a hard cap in place, what is the best way to ensure it isn't abused. If you can't change the cap, then change the existing rules and interpretations.

I'm not sure on this point - To change the rules for cap compliancy in the playoffs, does it require approval from the NHLPA or can the league do it unilaterally?

Just make cap space a tradeable asset, Chicago/Arizona don’t need to be massively overpaying vets and/or taking on LTIRetirement dumps just to hit the cap floor. Let blatantly tanking bottom feeders sell 10% of their cap space for the next year or two and collect assets for it, let the competitive teams peak higher but burn out faster by spending extra futures to sustain all star teams for a few years.

The same process is already happening via backwards counter intuitive accidentally on purpose loopholes anyway, just legalize and formalize it, then drop the hammer on anyone who tried to push it past that with new loopholes.

 

[bucks_oil]

Based on recent play, I think Logan Thompson should be starting. He's a complete unknown in the playoffs but has been fairly solid down the stretch this year and the year we missed.

To me it doensn't even come down to goaltending or Stone coming back it's really a matter of if the team can be bother to put in the effort again. I think if we played with urgency we could win without Stone, but I see it just as likely we go out in round one with Stone.

And that would be a thing of beauty - signed all of the cap compliant teams in the west.

I'll be cheering for Vancouver/Dallas (which really is saying something... yuck!) presuming the matchups stay as they are.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Now calculate the regular season cap hits of that lineup. I could even accept having all the players available but you can only ice a cap compliant team. Take a short bench? Rotate the high end guys?

That should be the solution, you have the cap to play with 15 skaters, or rotate everyone in and out on a night to night basis.

How many games has your team played with a short bench in the regular season?

The games are more important now not less.

But when they start game 1 with a non compliant team, no one can tell me it's not an advantage.

Your average cap hit for the last 5 games of the regular season = your cap hit for the playoffs.

You’d have to pull guys off LTIR for the last 5 games if you have the cap space to do so if they plan to play in the playoffs.

 

[Chaos2k7]

My whole point is this is the most brazen attempt in this cap era. If they do nothing, likely, I am thinking about next year.

 

[Vegas07]

At least 10M over the cap unfortunately. It's criminal.

Lehner is a $5 million cap hit and hasn’t played at all and will not play.

Most hockey fans don’t have an asterisks besides those wins, they were won fairly under the rules that the NHL/NHLPA laid out. Just a few sour grapes

An asterisk isn’t going to take down the championship banner I see in the stadium every time I’m there. I never saw an asterisk on that.

 

[Vegas07]

I think Cassidy will have his squad motivated. Vegas has an advantage in net over most teams in the West, in that they have two capable goalies. So unless Thompson disappoints, I think Vegas will split the workload between them two.

I think Edmonton or Dallas has the best shot to take them out this year if their goalies play up to their potential.

I think with a new coach, Henrique and Perry added, the Oilers could beat them in 6 IF Skinner doesn't revert to playoff Skinner who let in backbreaking goals every game.

I don’t know about calling Hill a capable goalie this year. He has played a lot worse than he did a year ago.