Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[TMLegend]

He may not even play, but, he was strangely waiting to have surgery he needed for months right up until the rosters had to be submitted for the next league season. His LTIR allowed guys like Bertuzzi and Domi to be signed.

IF he plays at all, it results in the same advantage that Vegas and others have been recently using.

There are other Toronto examples too. Klingberg with the Hossa treatment. How many folks were sent to Robidas Island?

This is not just a Vegas thing. But its obviously moving in a direction where if the league doesn't address the issue somehow, and soon, there will be league wide schnanigans.

If Vegas ices a team worth 100 million in the first round, I want a rational explanation frim the NHL on how there is no advantage.

Klingberg had season ending hip surgery, he didn't mysteriously develop an allergy to his equipment suddenly like Hossa did. The Leafs have never used LTIR in the manner Vegas has, I.E, using it as a place to stash a player until playoff time so they can add impact pieces with zero cap repercussions.

I'm not even that bothered by it personally, it's in the rules and everyone can use it. That being said, I do hope during the next CBA they tie up this loophole that Vegas and Tampa before them have used to great effect.

 

[StrangeVision]

So he's able to play, albeit in pain, and Vegas decided to put him on LTIR at the opportune time?

What's this thread about again?

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

 

[gritdash60]

How hard is it to just put a cap on what kind of team you can ice, playoffs or not?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

How hard is it to just put a cap on what kind of team you can ice, playoffs or not?

Not at all difficult, but the owners and GMs do not perceive a problem.

 

[1989]

If Vegas ices a team worth 100 million in the first round, I want a rational explanation frim the NHL on how there is no advantage.

Not trying to nitpick here, but what does this really mean?

If a team somehow goes on a Cinderella run and enters the playoffs with a bunch of overpaid scrubs totalling over $100m in cap, is that equivalent to a team heavy on ELCs + cap retention contracts?

Why is this even a determinant?

 

[Dave92]

Not trying to nitpick here, but what does this really mean?

If a team somehow goes on a Cinderella run and enters the playoffs with a bunch of overpaid scrubs totalling over $100m in cap, is that equivalent to a team heavy on ELCs + cap retention contracts?

Why is this even a determinant?

Wow you're so smart

If some cap teams are still worse than teams not spending to the cap then obviously money must not matter at all

 

[Chaos2k7]

Not trying to nitpick here, but what does this really mean?

If a team somehow goes on a Cinderella run and enters the playoffs with a bunch of overpaid scrubs totalling over $100m in cap, is that equivalent to a team heavy on ELCs + cap retention contracts?

Why is this even a determinant?

Trying to be obtuse I see.

Icing a team in the playoffs which wouldn't be cap compliant during the regular season is a competitive advantage.

Trying to argue with some extreme example that doesn't exist, yet anyways, doesn't disprove the advantage now in a very real if not likely scenario.

Lots needs to happen for this to even effect my teams postseason hopes, but, 7 other Western teams have a legitimate complaint here.

 

[DuklaNation]

Rules can often have loopholes. It's up to the league and the other teams to close them. Yet, its allowed to continue . . .

 

[Mr Positive]

So he's able to play, albeit in pain, and Vegas decided to put him on LTIR at the opportune time?

What's this thread about again?

That tweet also makes no sense. Stone has been out with a spleen laceration. He hasn't had that for years

 

[Chaos2k7]

Rules can often have loopholes. It's up to the league and the other teams to close them. Yet, its allowed to continue . . .

I am not suggesting there be asterisks beside any team names, but this is the third straight attempt by Vegas and the most brazen attempt of them all, therefore, it must force the league to do something, riiiiiight?

 

[gritdash60]

Not at all difficult, but the owners and GMs do not perceive a problem.

I kind of get it with how the cap hit is calculated, but there are more than one rule you could implement to stop this nonsense. The worst thing for to me is, Stone is not 100%, has not been 100%, but he is still so good that they convince him to play for another cup.

He should have been retired already, but he can collect the paycheck and come play playoffs while being "injured" or how should i put it. He will never be in the form of what he was in his prime, and now he is just risking having more problems with his health after his career, and i get it; he does it for 9.5million per season, but some f***ing people should intervene on this kind of bullshit if the PA wont. EVERYONE knows he's not 100%, everyone also knows why the timing is like this.

And please dont @ me about some f***ing spleen shit, i can promise you Mark Stone will not start a single season in his career from game 1 ever again. If he even plays any season after this.

TLDR; they are playing with the mans health, by throwing money at him and giving him another chance for a cup, and he is either too competetive to pass for the chance to get the cup, or too greedy for the money. Eitherway it is f***ed up and should not be happening.

 

[Bruce Granville]

I know everyone‘s saying this came out of nowhere and you were all taken by surprise.
But, honestly, I had my suspicions something like this could happen…

 

[Oilslick941611]

Rules can often have loopholes. It's up to the league and the other teams to close them. Yet, its allowed to continue . . .

The NHL is backed into a corner now regarding fixing the issue. If they close the loophole they are admitting that at least, 2 of Tampas Stanley cups and Vegas's cups have an *. I mean, as fans we already know the * cups to be true, but I don't think the league wants to officially admit that.

I know everyone‘s saying this came out of nowhere and you were all taken by surprise.
But, honestly, I had my suspicions something like this could happen…

I know you're being a smartass about it, but I really don't think anybody is surprised by this, quite the opposite.

 

[DuklaNation]

The NHL is backed into a corner now regarding fixing the issue. If they close the loophole they are admitting that at least, 2 of Tampas Stanley cups and Vegas's cups have an *. I mean, as fans we already know the * cups to be true, but I don't think the league wants to officially admit that.


I know you're being a smarts about it, but I really don't think anybody is surprised by this, quite the opposite.

Not correcting this loophole is far more embarrassing than admitting a mistake.

 

[1989]

Trying to be obtuse I see.

Icing a team in the playoffs which wouldn't be cap compliant during the regular season is a competitive advantage.

Trying to argue with some extreme example that doesn't exist, yet anyways, doesn't disprove the advantage now in a very real if not likely scenario.

Lots needs to happen for this to even effect my teams postseason hopes, but, 7 other Western teams have a legitimate complaint here.

Sure, but to my knowledge, no such complaint has been made this season or the seasons prior where this complaint is supposed to exist (Golden Knights last season, Tampa a couple postseasons before.) Where is the outrage actually coming from? It's not from the owners or the management teams of the other competing corporate interests.

P.S. it's great you're a mod who is participating in the conversation but try to remember not everyone spends every second posting here or has the same insights. In other words, no reason to respond with such arrogance to someone (myself or others) who have posted for the first time in this thread. Hope your superiority complex was worth it today.

Wow you're so smart

If some cap teams are still worse than teams not spending to the cap then obviously money must not matter at all

It's not like the teams that spend to the cap are favourites to win the President's Trophy or make it to their respective Conference Finals so again, why would an implementation of a hard cap in the post-season a determinant of equity?

 

[Oilslick941611]

Not correcting this loophole is far more embarrassing than admitting a mistake.

Im on the side of correcting it. I think it's a dam joke.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Sure, but to my knowledge, no such complaint has been made this season or the seasons prior where this complaint is supposed to exist (Golden Knights last season, Tampa a couple postseasons before.) Where is the outrage actually coming from? It's not from the owners or the management teams of the other competing corporate interests.

P.S. it's great you're a mod who is participating in the conversation but try to remember not everyone spends every second posting here or has the same insights. In other words, no reason to respond with such arrogance to someone (myself or others) who have posted for the first time in this thread. Hope your superiority complex was worth it today.


It's not like the teams that spend to the cap are favourites to win the President's Trophy or make it to their respective Conference Finals so again, why would an implementation of a hard cap in the post-season a determinant of equity?

Why enforce an artificial cap number throughout the entire season and then throw it out the window when the games mean the most? The whole reason to require the cap in the CBA in the first place was to stop these types of super teams from forming, albeit in not exactly the same way as Vegas and company are currently constructing.

If its needed in the regular season, it should be required in the post season too.

This is not a team of 33 $3 million dollar players interchangeable in skill and role. Vegas will be over the cap and with higher end players filling the spots of depth guys. Again, it is a competitive advantage, and while not explicitly against the rules, something must be done.

Maybe with everyone available they will play a cap compliant team and its a moot point.

How likely do you think that is?

 

[1989]

Why enforce an artificial cap number throughout the entire season and then throw it out the window when the games mean the most.

If its needed in the regular season, it should be required in the post season too.

Because the cap is not solely for the strength of roster equity, it is for league revenue distribution too as I understand it. Controlling player salaries for the majority of the year plays a lot into that.

Not sure if playoff revenue is distributed differently however, but I imagine there is some difference because otherwise I agree it would not make sense.

 

[Dr Salt]

There's also obviously the possibility of the player willing to play through the pain in the playoffs but not the regular season. I agree its a loophole that needs closing though.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Trying to be obtuse I see.

Icing a team in the playoffs which wouldn't be cap compliant during the regular season is a competitive advantage.

It's entirely possible, without gaming LTIR to have guys come back after the end of the regular season, to ice a team for the playoffs that would be cap compliant in Game 82 of the regular season that wouldn't have been cap compliant in Game 1 of the regular season. That's a function of how the cap works. It's what helps facilitate trades at the deadline every year. It's been like that every year since 2006.

In fact, I'm reasonably certain at least one team that was in the playoffs in 2006 had a playoff roster whose sum of cap hits exceeded $39 million, and it wasn't because of stashing someone on LTIR and then bringing them back for the playoffs. [I'd have to go dig all my prior work out from that era for specifics.] And the teams that made it to the Conference Finals were all completely cap compliant - meaning, they would have fit under the cap from the start of the regular season.

To follow your point - you shouldn't be able to have a roster that wouldn't be cap compliant in the regular season - you're implicitly asking for the cap to be an even harder cap so that no one can save cap space for future moves later in the season. That's going to create an entirely new set of problems, which instead of addressing the original alleged problem correclty will cause people to want "new" solutions that probably introduce added complexity for no real gain.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

I wish the Rangers did this when Tuba went down

 

[Juxtaposer]

Ah yes, the ol’ “chronic spleen laceration”. Every time he gets too close to healthy, the Knights hire someone to re-stab him.

 

[Chaos2k7]

It's entirely possible, without gaming LTIR to have guys come back after the end of the regular season, to ice a team for the playoffs that would be cap compliant in Game 82 of the regular season that wouldn't have been cap compliant in Game 1 of the regular season. That's a function of how the cap works. It's what helps facilitate trades at the deadline every year. It's been like that every year since 2006.

In fact, I'm reasonably certain at least one team that was in the playoffs in 2006 had a playoff roster whose sum of cap hits exceeded $39 million, and it wasn't because of stashing someone on LTIR and then bringing them back for the playoffs. [I'd have to go dig all my prior work out from that era for specifics.] And the teams that made it to the Conference Finals were all completely cap compliant - meaning, they would have fit under the cap from the start of the regular season.

To follow your point - you shouldn't be able to have a roster that wouldn't be cap compliant in the regular season - you're implicitly asking for the cap to be an even harder cap so that no one can save cap space for future moves later in the season. That's going to create an entirely new set of problems, which instead of addressing the original alleged problem correclty will cause people to want "new" solutions that probably introduce added complexity for no real gain.

This may be why it hasn't been addressed already but this is now the third and most brazen attempt by Vegas in successive years.

It will go wild west soon, and then just like the backloaded contracts stuff, certain teams at a random point will have the book thrown at them without warning.

The league never proactively avoids obvious incoming problems, but they will make an example of someone soon IMO.

 

[PaulD]

Three days ago he was out for the year. Two days ago his equipment appeared in the locker room. Yesterday he was full contact and line rushes in practice. He’s playing. They used his space to acquire Wennberg and Roslovic.

A team keeping everyone guessing on injuries and return dates near playboff time. That's about as new goalie masks.