Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[Czechboy]

Three days ago he was out for the year. Two days ago his equipment appeared in the locker room. Yesterday he was full contact and line rushes in practice. He’s playing. They used his space to acquire Wennberg and Roslovic.

I hope you're right. Need Chytil back in the NHL from a Czech perspective. And he's a good playoff performer!

I don't mind the LTIR stuff FTR.. wish my GM did it!

 

[Golden_Jet]

The worst part is fans who pass it off as ok "it's not against the rules", despite it being utterly against the spirit of the rules and still actually an illegal circumvention.

Actually the worst part is fans / posters not realizing Vegas was cap compliant for every playoff game last year.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Real hockey fans will always put an asterisk next to last year’s cup. Would have been bliss to win it fairly, now Vegas fans have to pretend not to be bothered every time sometime brings it up

A number of recent Cups have asterisks it seems.

The GMs are following the rules in a money driven environment. The NHL could simply adjust the rules going back many years with Chicago around 2010?

 

[hangman005]

The problem most people have is how things are selectively applied by the league. If Vegas and Tampa pulling this isn’t an issue, then it shouldn’t have been an issue for Columbus to deal Nyquist to a contender last year in order to stash for the playoffs. But the league came out and said that would be cap circumvention

I honestly don't recall the Nyquist situation... but it sounds like from your post he was on LTIR and the league saying if he were moved to be stashed for the playoffs. Which to be fair is understandable (if I'm understanding things correctly) The rule exists to allow a team to replace an injured player so it makes sense. If Hertl didn't back for us and was out for the regular season, it would the same situation and I think he should be deemed ineligable to play in the playoffs for us. He did and was largely expected to return during the RS so it's moot.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Gary Bettman is never going to publicly say anything that calls into question the competitive fairness of the NHL playoffs. It's like publicly supporting the refs while possibly handling issues behind closed doors.

The question is will the NHL ever actually address this, that will reveal what the league really thinks. I see it like the backdiving contracts with phony retirement years, within the rules but NJ went too far so they felt they had to intervene. Some team is going to go too far, or possibly Vegas winning the cup this year will piss off enough GMs and something will change.

It's like the massively front-loaded contract/cap recapture issue. It was legal and allowed to go on, even though a lot of people were calling bullshit on some of them. Then it got taken too far with the likes of the Kovalchuk contract and was clamped down on. League will do the same with this eventually.

 

[Crease]

For every team bending the rules to go above the cap ceiling, there is another team bending the rules to go below the cap floor. At the end of the day, the owners are generally fine with all this (maybe a few are annoyed), so the Commissioner’s Office will not take action.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

despite it being utterly against the spirit of the rules

Wasn't the Cap was created for owner budgeting purposes, not for a level playing field? It would have been, and still would be, very easy for the League to extend the Cap one way or another to the playoffs, but the owners and GMs did not do so initially and have not even tried to do so since despite many opportunities, including just a month ago at the GMs meeting.

Maybe it will come up in the next CBA negotiations, or maybe not.

 

[ChanceVegas]

Call me Mark Stone. Some years ago—never mind how long precisely—having little or no playoff wins, and nothing particular to interest me in April, I thought I would limp about a little and see the medical part of the world. It is a way I have of lacerating the spleen and circumventing the cap.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Also just wanted to point out that when Murray plays for the Leafs in this postseason they will have also pulled a Vegas.

We shall see if those Canadian fans will acknowledge it.

 

[DRW895]

Same with Hertyl. 2 miracles in one week!

It`s nearly disgrace to write anything about Hertl with LAK logo

 

[Ted Hoffman]

It's like the massively front-loaded contract/cap recapture issue. It was legal and allowed to go on, even though a lot of people were calling bullshit on some of them. Then it got taken too far with the likes of the Kovalchuk contract and was clamped down on. League will do the same with this eventually.

Eventually, it might happen.

Will it be a sensible solution? Judging by how the league "fixed" ultra-long, front-loaded contracts, probably not. It will "fix" a problem but create other problems, but everyone will ignore those because hooray, we fixed the problem, high 5s everyone!

 

[Oilslick941611]

I'm eye rolling less about him practicing after hearing the rule that he has to attend practices at this time to be eligible for playoffs. (I believe I have that right)

So perhaps this is just box checking. But yes it is still irritating that this all is so convenient. That old saying seems apt, about how if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. This really looks, sounds and smells like circumvention. That doesn't mean it is, but the league has to do something.

Either close up the loop hole if it is one, or make a lot more transparency so fans don't make this interpretation that they so naturally would

Does the NHL like being known as a league where rules are broken?

I feel like you are practicing you should be off LTIR and on regular IR

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Eventually, it might happen.

Will it be a sensible solution? Judging by how the league "fixed" ultra-long, front-loaded contracts, probably not. It will "fix" a problem but create other problems, but everyone will ignore those because hooray, we fixed the problem, high 5s everyone!

Of course. Then we'll move on to the next grey area in the rules that teams can exploit and start anew. As fan of a team that potentially got screwed by the recapture implementation, on a contract they didn't even offer (but matched, Weber), both sides of that loophole/closure were bullshit for my team, but I'm still glad it was addressed. As you say, "fixing" this will create another issue somewhere (similar to potentially punishing teams that made contracts that had been legal at the time), but I'd be surprised to not see it addressed.

 

[Canadienna]

Also just wanted to point out that when Murray plays for the Leafs in this postseason they will have also pulled a Vegas.

We shall see if those Canadian fans will acknowledge it.

Right cause Canadians all regularly defend the Leafs...

Seriously though, nobody hates Canadian teams like Canadians.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Of course. Then we'll move on to the next grey area in the rules that teams can exploit and start anew. As fan of a team that potentially got screwed by the recapture implementation, on a contract they didn't even offer (but matched, Weber), both sides of that loophole/closure were bullshit for my team, but I'm still glad it was addressed.

Right, but it was a rushed half-assed solution that "fixed the problem" but in fact created new problems, when a smarter solution that truly dealt with the problem could have been developed that didn't create unintended problems.

I'm OK if we try to find a solution. I just want one that actually fixes the problem alleged, doesn't create new unintended problems (doesn't screw over teams that aren't engaging in the problem behavior but get smacked in a one sledgehammer solution), and - most importantly - is one the NHLPA will actually sign off on. Everything everyone has proposed so far misses most if not all of those items.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Right cause Canadians all regularly defend the Leafs...

Seriously though, nobody hates Canadian teams like Canadians.

I am Canadian. So maybe you are right.

Having said that, there are many posts in this thread implying that a Canadian franchise would never get away with this stuff.

This is another example of the cap games being played league wide.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Also just wanted to point out that when Murray plays for the Leafs in this postseason they will have also pulled a Vegas.

We shall see if those leaf fans will acknowledge it.

fixed it for you.

 

[Vegas07]

Before game 1 we’ll have Friedmans legendary tweets saying Stone will be a game time decision, real drama build up



It’s just the bs everyone is tired off.

How the hell can a player be too injured to play in game 82 but be all cleared for game 1, amazingly at the time the cap goes away

The cap heals players hell of a lot better than any doctor there

So just stop saying you can’t fool doctors and have healthy players sit on the side and far less people are bothered about this

Now this is just making the league look like a joke and even Vegas tweet is pushing the knife in well knowing

Stone will probably be injured for both game 82 and game 1. Way too many comments here act like if a player plays in the playoffs it means he is 100%. Even the head coach last night said he might rest players after clinching a playoff spot.

Also Vegas didn’t acquire much in trades last season before winning a cup. I don’t remember people saying the rest of the league was doomed after the trade deadline. Edmonton was a significant favorite to win the 2nd round matchup.

 

[Reality Czech]

Rangers are doing this with Chytil so it’s becoming more of a league wide practice now.

At least the Rangers had the decency to fool all of us into thinking that Chytil really wasn't coming back and that his career was in jeopardy. Vegas, much like Tampa before them, basically just circumvented right in all of our faces.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I feel like you are practicing you should be off LTIR and on regular IR

I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between practicing and playing in a game.

I'm also pretty sure if you're on LTIR, you're also on IR [because LTIR is a subset of IR] and there's no provision to go from LTIR "down" [or up, depending on how you want to look at it] to "regular" IR, nor would it functionally change anything because either way you're still on IR and not eligible to play.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

great piece of gming by vegas

 

[TMLegend]

Also just wanted to point out that when Murray plays for the Leafs in this postseason they will have also pulled a Vegas.

We shall see if those Canadian fans will acknowledge it.

Yes, the guy who hasn't played hockey in over a year and is at best #4 on the Leafs depth chart is going to be playing in the playoffs for them this year.

Give your head a shake. Not even close to the same thing.

 

[Some Other Flame]

 

[Chaos2k7]

Yes, the guy who hasn't played hockey in over a year and is at best #4 on the Leafs depth chart is going to be playing in the playoffs for them this year.

Give your head a shake. Not even close to the same thing.

He may not even play, but, he was strangely waiting to have surgery he needed for months right up until the rosters had to be submitted for the next league season. His LTIR allowed guys like Bertuzzi and Domi to be signed.

IF he plays at all, it results in the same advantage that Vegas and others have been recently using.

There are other Toronto examples too. Klingberg with the Hossa treatment. Also how many folks were sent to Robidas Island?

This is not just a Vegas thing. But its obviously moving in a direction where if the league doesn't address the issue somehow, and soon, there will be league wide schnanigans.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Yes, the guy who hasn't played hockey in over a year and is at best #4 on the Leafs depth chart is going to be playing in the playoffs for them this year.

Give your head a shake. Not even close to the same thing.

He may not even play, but, he was strangely waiting to have surgery he needed for months right up until the rosters had to be submitted for the next league season. His LTIR allowed guys like Bertuzzi and Domi to be signed.

IF he plays at all, it results in the same advantage that Vegas and others have been recently using.

There are other Toronto examples too. Klingberg with the Hossa treatment. How many folks were sent to Robidas Island?

This is not just a Vegas thing. But its obviously moving in a direction where if the league doesn't address the issue somehow, and soon, there will be league wide schnanigans.

If Vegas ices a team worth 100 million in the first round, I want a rational explanation frim the NHL on how there is no advantage.