Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[TheBeard]

It doesn't matter what you think of the players, when they're injured they still take up a roster spot and the accompanying cap space for that roster spot while injured.

Then you call up players to ice a full team and they also take up a roster spot and the accompanying cap space.

So you put your injured players on IR and LTIR in order to go over the roster limit and salary cap to facilitate those extra called up players. That is the process that Vegas has been using for months already.

Theodore was injured for three months and had surgery, so he was put on LTIR but was activated for the game yesterday, so Vegas needed the cap space to facilitate his 5.2 million coming off LTIR while also needing room to have roster replacements for Eichel, Carrier, Dorofeyev, Bjornfot and Hutton.

Thus, Eichel, another player who has been injured for six weeks already and also had surgery at that time, was put on LTIR to facilitate it.

That injured player, Jack Eichel, as has been said before for those who take the time to look and are genuine parties in conversation, is expected back in early March. The playoffs, for reference, do not begin until late April.

I have no issues with their usage of LTIR. I was just stating the quantity of key players lost wasn't really all that many. Guys like Hutton and Bjornfoot an even Carrier aren't all that hard to replace.

 

[WhataKnight]

Hope some people have rage-powered popcorn in the cupboard; I don’t think some posters saying that “it’s just Eichel” realize that Mark Stone’s injured now.

That’s a whooooole lotta Salary Cap, and the TDL draws nigh….

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So the Billion dollar + sports league should have more rule bending than the $20 fantasy league?

The "billion dollar + sports league" is accountable to its owners and its advertisers, such that they care about the application of a league's cap system. Your [the general sense, not you specifically] $20 fantasy league is accountable to you and your friends and whoever else is involved. Those two entities have vastly different rules, and vastly different tolerances for breaking those rules (and vastly different consequences).

 

[Vegan Knight]

I have no issues with their usage of LTIR. I was just stating the quantity of key players lost wasn't really all that many. Guys like Hutton and Bjornfoot an even Carrier aren't all that hard to replace.

I agree we have gotten our big players back bit by bit with Hill, Karlsson and now Theodore back after long stretches out of the lineup. There's only Eichel left, which we have been led to believe is about two or three weeks away.

But Stone did miss the entire third period after a collision yesterday so we'll see.

 

[GOilers88]

Hope some people have rage-powered popcorn in the cupboard; I don’t think some posters saying that “it’s just Eichel” realize that Mark Stone’s injured now.

That’s a whooooole lotta Salary Cap, and the TDL draws nigh….

If they were smart they'd stash Pietro on IR and use his cap too.

 

[BB79]

The thing about Las Vegas is that the house always win.

*cheats to win

 

[Sanderson]

I'm sure the NHLPA will be perfectly fine with a player who was legitimately injured in the regular season but got healthy enough to play in the playoffs - but after the end of the regular season - getting told "f*** you, you didn't get healthy in time, you don't get to play at all."

Who says such a player couldn't play?
All the team would have to do, is remove him from LTIR prior to the end of the season, something they are very much allowed to do. There is nothing that forces a team to keep a player on LTIR, nor is there any actual benefit to it once the regular season ends, as there is no cap to take into consideration anymore. If they want to use the player in the playoffs and think he will be ready at some point, just remove him from LTIR before the season ends. The only time where it could be a detriment for a team, would be when a player gets hurt so close to the end of the season that he doesn't yet meet the requirements to remove him from LTIR before the season ends. But then again, teams would know about this, and if they valued the player so much, they could just refrain him putting him on LTIR in the first place. After all, it is after the deadline, so any replacement wouldn't be expensive anyway, and certainly not worth risking your better player not being available in the playoffs, making that "problem" a moot point.

The reason why teams tend to keep players on LTIR until they are fully ready to play, is that under most circumstances doing so is beneficial to the cap. Unless they specifically plan not to use LTIR to exceed the cap so they can acrue more cap-space, they just have no reason to remove a player from LTIR right now. If a situation arises where LTIR would not be beneficial to a team, said team will easily know not to use it.

In other words: if a team fails to take this into account, and rather prefers to use the money for somebody else instead of leaving enough room to activate the player, then that is entirely on the team, not on the system or anyone else.

 

[Strangle]

It would help if people understood what "circumventing the cap" really means.

Of course it would also help if people realized that if "circumventing the cap" is a thing, it's league-endorsed and it's never doing anything about it beyond a perfunctory no one should do it, we're watching, we're really serious this year statement.

The league will only notice if the leafs do it.

Sit Tavares down until the playoffs and load up at the TDL, and watch how quickly Bettman wakes up

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Who says such a player couldn't play?

Every person who has a "wonderful" idea that "if you're not off LTIR and don't play before the playoffs start, you can't play for [whatever time period gets lobbed out]. And they all seem to think the NHLPA would just stand around idly, oh gosh gee wilickers, I guess those guys won't play in playoff games, such a bummer for them.

 

[mkatcherin00]

I mean there isn't a team that wouldn't do this. I really don't get the incessant whining about it. It's not like the player would be thrilled to be shut down for any longer than they would be, it's probably actually really difficult. And then, I'm sure they've got some sort of department to make sure everything's on the up and up with the injury.

Stop complaining about something that anyone could do, and anyone would do if they had the opportunity. Makes you look like a whiner.

You also have to have a good team to do this too. Let's say delay coming back a few weeks, etc.

You can't just keep a top player out and expect to magically continue on and slide into the playoffs easily, unless it's timed right and happens at the end of the season.

It does suck though when teams do it. It's such an advantage just being able to add 1-2 impact players to a lineup

As Bertuzzi said

It is what it is

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The league will only notice if the leafs do it.

Sit Tavares down until the playoffs and load up at the TDL, and watch how quickly Bettman wakes up

Yeah, this is all a pro-American, anti-Canadian plan.

 

[Voight]

Again.... people need to realize none of this is circumvention.

If the Vegas team docters declare Eichel can't play until late April, that is their medical opinion. Maybe the Sharks team doctors opinion would be he can play in late March.

That wouldn't mean the Vegas doctors are wrong. It's a matter of medical opinion.

If Eichel is activated in the next couple weeks, fine.

If not, and the Golden Cheats trade for another high end talent, only for Eichel to dress in game one of the playoffs… just chalk it up to another cheat, 3rd time in 4 years for a no state income tax team. Uncle Gary will just look away.

It's not cheating. if their medical staff deems Eichel cannot play until late April, that is their decision.

 

[Voight]

if I never have to hear idiots complain about LTIR being "cAp CiRcUmVeNtIoN" again I'd die a happy man.

Players get injured, players go on LTIR. Teams cant put healthy players on LTIR, one there's oversight and 2 what competitive pro is going to willingly sit out for significant time? Morons act like Kucherov just willingly forfeited an entire season.

This and you can bet your ass insurance companies aren't going to pay out money if they don't have to.

 

[Enga Olly]

Don't care - I want every and any team to circumvent the cap any way they possibly can. This hard cap by the owners to get their all important "cost certainty" promotes dishonest behaviour. Bettman's NHL is rife with rules and regulations that promotes/rewards dishonest behaviour. The NHL values cost certainty over almost everything else, including the integrity of the game. Any chance a team gets to show up the league for the corrupt POS that it is, I'm in favour of.
Reap what you sow NHL.

 

[Canovin]

I love seeing GMs do everything in their power to win Cups while playing within the rules that are set by the NHL

It's easy when Bettman lets you.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

It's easy when Bettman lets you.

And also easy when it's in the rules

 

[VivaLasVegas]

So curious that people jump on Bettman when he is simply the puppet of the owners, including theirs, as the owners could fire Bettman without cause tomorrow morning. Seems like some folks would rather blame things on a bogeyman than face up to the realization that their own owners, and thus their own organizations that they support as fans, are totally complicit with whatever it is they don't like. These fans might as well just say: "Blaming my own organization, bad. Blaming Bettman, convenient!"

 

[mouser]

Imo a good consolation rule with that one would be that the cap only applies to dressed players when it comes to playoffs. A problem with a continuous cap is that trades are the only real way to fix a cap problem, and it would be too odd to have that going on during playoffs

Seems unfair to the teams that can ice a playoff roster over the cap without ever using LTIR.

 

[RichLittle]

Imo a good consolation rule with that one would be that the cap only applies to dressed players when it comes to playoffs. A problem with a continuous cap is that trades are the only real way to fix a cap problem, and it would be too odd to have that going on during playoffs


I can't think of a candidate we could do with this though. You can't just make it up, but if there's a player suffering through some issue then we could have them get a treatment of some kind

You already did with Smith and Duncan Keith. Now that's as blatant as ever, one played last playoff game and then got on LTIR in the summer? And Keith "retired" only to join the front office. Frauds.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

It's what they do. It's in their blood.

 

[JoVel]

I feel like the people who are mad at Vegas for exploiting this loophole are the same people who blame individual refs for game management.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

And Sens will pay for it.

 

[Enniskillen]

I don’t see the usual suspects who demanded Leafs and infants’ blood for the outrageous cap “circumcision”.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

You already did with Smith and Duncan Keith. Now that's as blatant as ever, one played last playoff game and then got on LTIR in the summer? And Keith "retired" only to join the front office. Frauds.

Please. It's not like Keith got to the part of his contract where his salaries were really small and he magically got a skin allergy to his jersey and he couldn't play any more, and later on people were oh, yeah, right, he did have that thing, it was ... um ... yeah, it looked like, ... well, he had it and man did he ... uh, well, I totally can believe he can't ever play again.

 

[Seanaconda]

Boy would that open up a whole other can of worms.

Nah you can't tell physical pain anyways it's no different.