Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

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This predicament began nearly FIVE years before the Knights existed, in the last CBA.

The Vegas hate is silly. Again, it is likely because I’m not a Bolts fan, but the outpouring of vitriol seems to have increased between Tampa doing this and Vegas doing this.
Maybe that's because TB did it once, blatantly, and got a TON of shit thrown their way because of it. No NHL season since has been complete without questioning the legitimacy of what Vegas does and usually when there's smoke for 4 years there's fire. I remember people were questioning it way back when Vegas acquired Eichel and if I remember they were stashing players on LTIR just to find ways to fit Eichel under. It's never been simply about putting playiers on LTIR for Vegas but about them doing so primarily for the purpose of bringing in more high-priced players from other teams.

I mostly post about my disdain for what the team is doing and how I find it difficult to understand how some can view the situation without at least a shred of skepticism . Most Vegas posters are posting "LMAOOOOO OTHER FANS SOOOO SALTYYYYY" without it being about hockey in the least.
 
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It’s not just the NHL but other front offices that don’t care either. Nobody forced other teams to make deals with the Knights.

Other teams made those deals to help themselves, not caring about the impact on the league those deals might have, and not caring that the Knights were making those deals in attempts to “cheat.”

And the Knights got their players pretty cheap, which really makes it looks like other teams didn’t care at all.
 
Maybe that's because TB did it once, blatantly, and got a TON of shit thrown their way because of it. No NHL season since has been complete without questioning the legitimacy of what Vegas does and usually when there's smoke for 4 years there's fire. I remember people were questioning it way back when Vegas acquired Eichel and if I remember they were stashing players on LTIR just to find ways to fit Eichel under. It's never been simply about putting playiers on LTIR for Vegas but about them doing so primarily for the purpose of bringing in more high-priced players from other teams.


I mostly post about my disdain for what the team is doing and how I find it difficult to understand how some can view the situation without at least a shred of skepticism . Most Vegas posters are posting "LMAOOOOO OTHER FANS SOOOO SALTYYYYY" without it being about hockey in the least.

I don’t know who you’re referencing with the latter, but the 3-5 names I know from the VGK board posting in here seem to have a more resigned/composed take. Speaking only for myself, I try to stick to waving a red cape between the fans and the actual root of the problem - the CBA - especially having become a fan of this team after the quality of their broadcasts compared to those for the local team (cough…..Avs) don’t require both an additional TV package and large quantities of amyl nitrate to sit through.

I’m more surprised and annoyed that this slipped through nearly 3 dozen legal teams over weeks of negotiations, and THIS was the cleanest answer - though considering how many times people suggest a “game 82 or gtfo” clause should be added only for it to be re-explained how it isn’t a fitting solution, maybe I shouldn’t be. Hell, much of the reason I support all teams approaching “load management” this way is because the combo of total number of regular season games and physicality of the sport make other methods of adjustment incongruent. If this was a known mechanism - which I can’t believe it wasn’t given the legal juice it takes to make a CBA - it was only a matter of time before it was exploited.

At the end of the day, I view what’s happening now similar to the pre-2005 league. Detroit/NYR aren’t getting any asterisks for how they’d stack teams before the cap came about. They used the physics of the environment. Vegas/TB are similar. As for skepticism, I’d have to go as far as assuming that injuries were overblown or faked, which I can’t given the amount of diligence. For me, it comes down to fast & loose load management at worst, until it is proven definitively that someone’s faking it. I didn’t call TB cheaters so much as state surprise at this slipping through the last CBA without any mechanism of restraint, and actually would look forward to this being more common, as it can be said to force lazy owners to be more aggressive.

Call it a side effect of liking this team before VGK’s legal arm decided to prioritize the legally permissible and ignore contempt. I’m curious what the next round of CBA negotiations will bring about, and I’m all for a solution that allows for fluidity and encourages teams to make bold moves. For now, for better or worse, VGK is willingly standing in the line of fire that the league is due for its inability to make a better solution. I just balk at accusations of “cheating” when the CBA permits it - making it an owner/GM-level decision today, and a matter to be corrected in 2026 with the next CBA.

Every one-sided thing the Vegas Golden Knights have done ended with a “handshake” from second and third parties. Except for one. 😂
 
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Next CBA......................you can bet, Bettman will have this figured out guys...

I don't know or care what Vegas or any team is up to, but you can bet there will be loopholes closed.
 
Stone has very well documented health issues though. If you think they're fake, that's on you for believing dumb shit. Teams are always within their rights to contest if they think medical fraud is taking place.

He probably should retire given he's made of glass, but doesn't want to because he likes the game too much.
I have some ice I want to sell you... Ohhh and some snake oil
 
It's not naive at all. Especially when other teams could challenge if they think something is sketchy. Lying and making a false medical diagnosis can cause a doctor to lose their practice licence for some time. No doctor will risk that just so a team can have a better chance at winning.

If you've worked in the medical field, you'll understand one thing though : doctors are very reticent at taking any sort of risks, unless the situation calls for it (life or death situation, potentially avoiding permanent damage, etc). There is not a set magical point, as I said, where a player suddenly goes from being unable to play to being able to play.

Can some teams plan surgeries so that the recovery time falls in line with the start of the playoffs, absolutely. Tampa has done it, notably. But the league is in no legal position to decide when a player has to have surgery. If the player is willing to wait for said surgery, there is nothing the league can do that wouldn't be illegal.
I am a doctor and I have worked on a pro team. I have posted this information before.
Team doc is a very political position. Do you think the team would keep the doctor if he/she keeps clearing a player to play in game 82 when *it is the advantage of the team to have that player out until game 1 of the playoffs*?

No one is saying injuries are faked. What is faked or manipulated is the recovery timeline. Players can fudge the timeline by saying the pain is like 2 out of 10 and they need a couple extra days. The doctors have to believe the player and will keep them out for a couple days. Win for the player and win for the team. Doctor is doing nothing wrong -- he/she is just listening to the patient. Everyone is happy.

There is very little objective about this LTIR solution. Everything is potentially subject to manipulation.

Stone has very well documented health issues though. If you think they're fake, that's on you for believing dumb shit. Teams are always within their rights to contest if they think medical fraud is taking place.

He probably should retire given he's made of glass, but doesn't want to because he likes the game too much.

Conveniently, his "very well documented health issues" only cause problems up until game 82 every season?
 
It’s not just the NHL but other front offices that don’t care either. Nobody forced other teams to make deals with the Knights.

Other teams made those deals to help themselves, not caring about the impact on the league those deals might have, and not caring that the Knights were making those deals in attempts to “cheat.”

And the Knights got their players pretty cheap, which really makes it looks like other teams didn’t care at all.
I'm sure there's a clear delineation between what playoff and non playoff teams care about.
 
I am a doctor and I have worked on a pro team. I have posted this information before.
Team doc is a very political position. Do you think the team would keep the doctor if he/she keeps clearing a player to play in game 82 when *it is the advantage of the team to have that player out until game 1 of the playoffs*?

No one is saying injuries are faked. What is faked or manipulated is the recovery timeline. Players can fudge the timeline by saying the pain is like 2 out of 10 and they need a couple extra days. The doctors have to believe the player and will keep them out for a couple days. Win for the player and win for the team. Doctor is doing nothing wrong -- he/she is just listening to the patient. Everyone is happy.

There is very little objective about this LTIR solution. Everything is potentially subject to manipulation.
That is what I'm saying in part. This is not the doctor making shit up to keep a player out longer and partaking in fraudulent activities. If the player still says he has a sting or pain when putting weight on their foot, there's no way to really objectively assess that from a doctor's perspective and as you say, the doctor has no choice but to believe the player, especially when it's within the estimated recovery time following an injury.

Conveniently, his "very well documented health issues" only cause problems up until game 82 every season?
This goes with everything I've said. Thresholds for taking risks with one's self body change depending on what's at stakes.

Stone has been injury prone since his junior days and his days with the Sens. He could probably be ltiretired if he agreed to with the glass body he has.
 

Screenshot 2024-04-21 at 10-31-46 As Mark Stone prepares for playoff return Golden Knights res...png


FWIW if there was a cap the Knights would be under it for their G1 roster.
 

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FWIW if there was a cap the Knights would be under it for their G1 roster.
Hertl and Stone on line 2.lol That is amazing. That has to be one of the bigger pain in the ass tandems in the NHL.lol I don't know enough about Stephenson but imagine he's quite good to crack the top 6 of LV.

Who's missing that would tilt the cap here? Mantha? Who else is currently out?

That top 4 is stupid good too.lol
 
It’s humorous to watch people go around in circles calling it cap circumvention when it very clearly is not
Next season I want the all steroid Olympics from SNL in the 1970's. Every playoff GM should do it. That rule isn't changing any time soon and it's clearly allowed.
 
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Hertl and Stone on line 2.lol That is amazing. That has to be one of the bigger pain in the ass tandems in the NHL.lol I don't know enough about Stephenson but imagine he's quite good to crack the top 6 of LV.

Who's missing that would tilt the cap here? Mantha? Who else is currently out?

That top 4 is stupid good too.lol

Martinez and Mantha are the two bigger salaries not shown.
 
Next season I want the all steroid Olympics from SNL in the 1970's. Every playoff GM should do it. That rule isn't changing any time soon and it's clearly allowed.
It's not that easy to pull off, since to take a high-paid player out of the lineup before the TDL can risk missing the playoffs and then when the player does come back he has to be somebody who can more-or-less fit back into the lineup immediately, i.e., a Kuch or Stone type. Also, the player would have to agree to sit for basically two months, so if they are chasing individual records or in a contract year that isn't happening.
 
It's not that easy to pull off, since to take a high-paid player out of the lineup before the TDL can risk missing the playoffs and then when the player does come back he has to be somebody who can more-or-less fit back into the lineup immediately, i.e., a Kuch or Stone type. Also, the player would have to agree to sit for basically two months, so if they are chasing individual records or in a contract year that isn't happening.
Not to mention the league checks in on these players, I don’t think they’ll take kindly to a player just “sitting out” for cap relief
 
Next CBA......................you can bet, Bettman will have this figured out guys...

I don't know or care what Vegas or any team is up to, but you can bet there will be loopholes closed.
I'm sure they will "have this figured out." And by that, I mean "they'll do some simplistic thing that doesn't really work, but they'll call it a victory ... and, it will create other problems, but victory and then when they realize the problems that now exists everyone will jam their hands into their pocks, gosh, whocoodanodatwodahapend and do nothing about it."

And, I'm sure that "solution" won't close all the loopholes. It will probably create others. Or, leave certain other ones still untouched just like everyone's oft-delighted we fixed the problem of ultra-long, backdiving ultra-front loaded contracts! didn't really fix it, it's just that no one (yet) has exploited the loopholes that still exist (which I've pointed out on at least 4 occasions).

Conveniently, his "very well documented health issues" only cause problems up until game 82 every season?
As noted previously: Stone did miss through Game 82 last season. In 2022, he was back on April 12 and played the last 9 games of the season ... and Vegas still missed the playoffs.

To add to this, though: in 2018, Stone missed the final 15 games of the season. Of course, that was in Ottawa and the Senators were bumbling to a 28-43-11 mark, so that won't count to some, but it's not like this "can't play late in the season thing" never happened until he got to Vegas.
 
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It's hilarious what fans talk themselves into. This is plainly cap circumvention.

That is cheating. I don't even care but if they do win the cup it will be with an asterisk.
Yes it is cap circumvention, but I am not ready to say it's cheating..................it's on the league to deal with on the next CBA. Everyone has the ability to do this....
Hopefully Vegas doesn't print T-shirts like the Bolts did, that was brutal.
 
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FWIW if there was a cap the Knights would be under it for their G1 roster.
So the team is *right* under the cap with just 12/6/2

Now do the full roster (14 / 7 / 2) cap hit - its $91m. Simply Scratching $9m doesnt magically remove it
 
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