You haven’t watched Byram. You strike me as someone who thought Hughes was better than Makar
Value of: Vancouver Vs Colorado Thread
- Thread starter LemonSauceD
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I wouldn’t trade Byram for Hughes. I’d gladly trade Byram for EP.
EP has more value than Hughes.
This OP is beyond stupid though. Would cost Vancouver at least their 2024 and 2025 unprotected 1sts on top of the offer above to make the value proposition equal.
You made the point this makes no sense for either team. That’s not true. It’s a grand slam for Vancouver. Thankfully the Avs aren’t morons.
Nucklehead Supreme
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You haven't watched Hughes. You strike me as someone who doesn't understand hockey.
I would take Makar over pretty much anyone in the league, so no. I didn't have him over Hughes.
Nah. He’s a good and honest fan. I’ve chatted with him some and he’s one of the more knowledgeable Vancouver fans. I like him.
Byram has a higher ceiling than Quinn Hughes. Probably by some significance. But the health issue will remain until Byram plays most of a full season.
The Avs wouldn’t dare entertain trading a high end number 1 D that’s 21 years old. You cherish those assets.
Vancouver has two cherished assets in EP and Hughes. I understand why they are protective of them. Hughes is having a solid season too. And EP has make high gains since his terrible start to last season. He’s quite an excellent 200 foot player.
It’s a shame Vancouver hasn’t put good players around those two because they are great core pieces.
Byram is an incredible core piece too.
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Nucklehead Supreme
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We have a top pairing dman in Hughes, Byram is still more potential than actually proven at this point and one really good playoff doesn't change that.
Also I like Byram but the concussions scare me, which is funny considering how much you use injuries to criticize players from other teams, yet Byram is impervious to it. amazing how that works.
I wouldn’t trade Byram for QH but it’s not a ridiculous proposal like others here are saying.
Nucklehead Supreme
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I’d be stunned if Sakic entertained a Byram for Quinn Hughes swap. That could prove out a downgrade for the Avs based on how well Byram is playing and his age vs lack of NHL games. His growth curve could still be very steep and his ceiling incredibly high. Higher than Hughes. He’s at least his equal as a skater but has more size and bite. Better reach and more leadership qualities.
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You are welcome and I mean it too. I enjoy reading your posts and find value in your thoughts.
Try to watch an Avs game soup to nuts. Focus on Byram and I think you’ll be blown away. He flashes all over the place most nights. Makes clever passes, he’s great in the defensive corners and winning those 50/50 battles, he has excellent instincts when to jump into a play. High end top speed lets him recover. He’s chippy and kinda dirty too. He hits and agitates. He talks a ton of trash. Hughes has virtually none of those latter qualities.
His defense is vastly underrated. And he’s still 21 until June. Dude will be in the Norris discussion at some point soon.
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Nucklehead Supreme
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QH just became the fastest Dman to 200 assists in NHL history, Byram hits more and has more bite, but I seriously wonder if he ever hits the heights of offence that QH has and will do. I love Byram , have since he was a Giant, but think QH is incredibly underrated on here, the narrative that he would somehow make your team worse is asinine.
dirtydanglez
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byram > 6th/7th overall
newhook > hoglander
the 2nd doesnt really make up the difference
newhook > hoglander
the 2nd doesnt really make up the difference
SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
From the Avs perspective it does make them worse. Quinn is a better offensive player right now than Byram, Byram shows flashes but there's a chance he never reaches his true offensive potential with Makar ahead of him eating up a lot of those prime opportunities. However, the Avs do benefit quite a bit from the chippiness and bite that you mentioned, he's also pretty good at eating minutes while being a net positive. That isn't to say Hughes wouldn't, but when you would have to then account for the players and salaries the Avs would HAVE to move to fit in Quinn Hughes, not to mention the assets that would be expended to acquire him, it does make the team worse.
Nucklehead Supreme
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This makes sense to me, can totally agree from that perspective.
If your GM, whom I think is a buffoon, trades EP, you need to find a new team to root for.
You don’t trade high end 1Cs entering their prime. The very idea is outrageous.
Aves have gone out and traded for guys like EJ, JJ, Manson.
They like guys who play physical defense.
And rely on Makar to play the role Hughes does.
They're still stuck in the one D is offensive and one D is big hitter.
So they would turn down Hughes. Hughes is better than Byram but the Aves managment are still stuck in 1992.
The idea is that we are “retooling” and whether that is the correct decision or not remains to be seen. However, management traded for Hronek, there’s no point in half adding the retooling. If you don’t get one of the surefire top 5 guys, trade the pick for a future top pairing defenseman.
If the 6/7th overall isn’t enough, I’d throw in another unprotected first rounder for Byram + Newhook.
Trade Boeser, Garland, Myers ++ for whatever you can get, perhaps retain on Boeser a bit, buyout OEL, and go after a top 4 24-27 y/o defenseman and a 3C.
Nothing irks me more than trading a 1st for Hronek and not doubling down on the same philosophy.
Contrary to what Avs fans might feel, a 6th/7th overall, a 2024 unprotected 1st, a solid young player in Hoglander would be foolish to not accept for Byram and Newhook considering Byram’s concussion history which we take a gamble on, and a 2C/3C versatile 21 year old with upside in Newhook.
Because I trash the trade value of Boeser, Myers and Garlands contracts so much. JT Miller’s contract to a lesser extent, I find myself watching them play a lot. Way more than I should.
And in watching a lot of a rather bad team, I will say I’m very impressed by EP. He’s an awesome all around player. He’s actually underrated and I bet he signs a $12mm/per type extension. He’s worth it.
Hughes is also fun to watch. Very graceful player. Creative and precise. He’s not as good as Makar in his own zone. He’s definitely not as good as Byram defensively or in the corners, but he’s a real treat with the puck. Awesome transition player and don’t dump it into his corner unless you’re sure you can disrupt him.
Kuzmenko is also a stud. No idea how they landed that guy on such an otherwise poorly run team.
That Podkolzin guy is also starting to make some noise and look like a viable middle six player with top six upside. He could develop into a Crouse type if Vancouver doesn’t squander his potential.
And you’ve got Demko, one of the higher end starters when he’s on and healthy.
Vancouver should tank for 2-3 years but can’t because of how good EP and Hughes are. Teams like Philly, Arizona and Chicago can’t come close to matching core pieces.
It’s a tough spot to be because they are no where close to being a threat but too talented to get a Bedard type which they really need.
And in watching a lot of a rather bad team, I will say I’m very impressed by EP. He’s an awesome all around player. He’s actually underrated and I bet he signs a $12mm/per type extension. He’s worth it.
Hughes is also fun to watch. Very graceful player. Creative and precise. He’s not as good as Makar in his own zone. He’s definitely not as good as Byram defensively or in the corners, but he’s a real treat with the puck. Awesome transition player and don’t dump it into his corner unless you’re sure you can disrupt him.
Kuzmenko is also a stud. No idea how they landed that guy on such an otherwise poorly run team.
That Podkolzin guy is also starting to make some noise and look like a viable middle six player with top six upside. He could develop into a Crouse type if Vancouver doesn’t squander his potential.
And you’ve got Demko, one of the higher end starters when he’s on and healthy.
Vancouver should tank for 2-3 years but can’t because of how good EP and Hughes are. Teams like Philly, Arizona and Chicago can’t come close to matching core pieces.
It’s a tough spot to be because they are no where close to being a threat but too talented to get a Bedard type which they really need.
Fully realized, Byram is a high end #1 D in annual Norris discussions.
Fully realized, Newhook is a solid 2C. Does it happen? No idea, but that would be the opportunity cost to the Avs.
Hoglander is a tiny dude playing in the AHL. He’s a dime a dozen prospect. Avs probably stash him in the AHL too. Big downgrade from Newhook.
The picks are magic beans. They could turn into Quinn Hughes. They could turn into Jake Virtanen or Ollu Juolevi. Avs have great pro scouts but their amateur scouting is much less effective.
You also neglect to realize Byram and Newhook both have valuable roles on the current team with the second best odds to win a cup.
Add a 2025 1st unprotected and Avs still don’t do it. Add Podkolzin and Avs still don’t do it. The thesis is wrong as is the value proposition to the Avs.
You made us worse next year. In our Cup window.
Your GM is a hot mess. You and I both know it. He’s loses trades, makes bad contractual decisions and works for an owner that is also a bozo.
Sucks to be a Vancouver fan right now. But that is what it is. Sakic certainly isn’t going to bail Vancouver out of this mess of a retooling they are in. The Hronek trade was absurd IMO. Awful for Vancouver.
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Fledgemyhedge
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pretty surprised at the canucks fans saying no to this. Seems very lopsided in their favour and it’s not like it’s a rebuilding thing… Byram is 21…
Grinner
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Fully realized, Byram is a high end #1 D in annual Norris discussions.
Besides you who else is talking about Byram as if he's in "annual Norris discussions"?
Avs fans severely overrate Byram like he’s the 2nd best defenseman in the league.
He’s a top 4 defenseman, with potential to be top 2. That’s the gamble the Canucks take. Byram is NOT as good as you think he is defensively. He’s a great puck mover and distributor and he’s versatile, but in no way shape or form is he this defensive all around stud like you guys are claiming him to be, and suggesting Hughes would be a downgrade shows how much you lack knowledge of the game (not specifically you, but @GirardSpinorama
A team in their cup window trading away a top 4D and a middle 6W both under team control for a pick in the later half of the top 10 and Hoglander doesn't make sense.
Reality Czech
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