Proposal: Van-Wsh (mid-season)

[Cogburn]

Does the fact that Nylander of the leafs involved in a lot of proposals mean that leafs fans aren't high on him?

I think it means a faction is not nearly as high on him as they claim. Being alright with including a player in a trade can be a start to a decline in popularity. Well, to be fair, that's usually to do with a normally rabid fanbase, such as Vancouver's. Bertuzzi, Naslund, Kesler, Luongo, we have a long list of players where I've seen online forums offering them up, only for them to have a portion of the fanbase turn on them. Not scientific in the slightest, but definitely an "of note" observation.

Edit: McCann and Schneider are other, younger players that I've noticed this phenomenon with.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Does the fact that Nylander of the leafs involved in a lot of proposals mean that leafs fans aren't high on him?

He has a misconception about said player, it happens, you could just say your misconception is wrong no?

 

[Kolzilla]

No way, Caps get older and mortgage their future.

And honestly I don't see the sedins being a fit for Trotz's system.

And lol to the posters undervaluing Burakovsky. Kid is gonna be a stud.

 

[Greg Schuler]

In the event that the Washington Capitals are highly seeded team come second half of the season as we all expect and that Vancouver is a bottom feeder still in full rebuild.

Washington Sends: Andre Burakovsky, Lars Eller, Ilya Samsonov, 2017 1st round pick & Brooks Orpik

Vancouver Sends: Daniel Sedin & Henrik Sedin (50% retained) & 2018 2nd round pick

Breakdown: obviously an extremely difficult if not impossible maneuver to trade for a Sedin, I assume they would never want to play separately or I would have proposed Daniel alone but I know that it is unlikely either would waive their NMC unless they both went.

For Vancouver- they say goodbye to their franchise faces and allow them their best chance to be world champions, in return they receive good young forward talent in A.B & Eller (not young but in prime non the less) and get Washington's best goalie prospect to Mortgage the Markstrom project, they also take on Orpiks Cap to make deal work (possible mentor for canucks young D). Also receive a pick most likely 25-30 youd think.

For Washington- they go full in, Ovechkin isn't getting younger and if they are going to beat the likes of the Penguins and other Metro foe and reach the ECF or SCF they give themselves a 2 year gap to go full in on it while its hot. They give up a lot but receive two of the best pros for their playoff pushes.

Washington takes on 7 mil from sedin A and 3.5 from Sedin B = 10.5 Mil
Vancouver takes on 5.5 mil from Orpik,3.5 from Eller and about a mil for Burakov = 10 mil .. so cap issues should be taken care of

WSH: Ovechkin-Backstrom -Oshie
Williams-Kuznetsov- Vrana?
Sedin- Sedin- Mojo
Winnik- Beagle- Wilson

Alzner-Nisk
Orlov-Carlson
Chorney-Schmidt

**who doesn't want to see both Sedins and Ovi raise trophy for first time together cmon now

I don't see the value for Washington, actually. You're essentially saying the Capitals should disrupt their team mid season to import two aging superstars and then make them complimentary players. Second power play, third line minutes (based on what you have above). That doesn't make any sense to me, regardless of cost.

In that line up, the Capitals still have bottom six issues, as well as bottom pair defenders that Trotz doesn't trust. Washington will score goals and possess the puck, so why go to extreme levels to integrate the Sedins?

 

[VoynovsParoleOfficer]

I don't see the value for Washington, actually. You're essentially saying the Capitals should disrupt their team mid season to import two aging superstars and then make them complimentary players. Second power play, third line minutes (based on what you have above). That doesn't make any sense to me, regardless of cost.

In that line up, the Capitals still have bottom six issues, as well as bottom pair defenders that Trotz doesn't trust. Washington will score goals and possess the puck, so why go to extreme levels to integrate the Sedins?

The way I look at it if your WSH is it doesn't matter how smoothly your season is going or how many goals you are already scoring.. how many times do the Capitals want to be a #1 or #2 seed in the conference and get eliminated before the 3rd round starts. This move would IMO give them the best chance at a 1 or 2 year run for the cup. You make valid points with the bottom pair D but I don't think replacing eller and burakov with the sedins is going to have a negative impact on the immediate team by any means and Holtby is 26 so I don't see a panic button in getting rid of the goalie chip. We all saw last year with HBK line that it doesn't hurt to have a scoring "third" line and Washington having a second PP would only make them scarier especially with ovi on point both units.

 

[johnsic]

No way, Caps get older and mortgage their future.

And honestly I don't see the sedins being a fit for Trotz's system.

And lol to the posters undervaluing Burakovsky. Kid is gonna be a stud.

The time is now for caps to mortgage the future. After Holtby, Ovie, Nick, Carlson, Alzer etc. get old then you do a total rebuilt.

 

[trick9]

I've seen him in a number of proposals, I've been under the assumption that he's lost some luster in the eyes of some Capitals fans...have I been getting an inaccurate picture on Burakovsky? I'm entirely underprepared to comment on his play, short of looking at his stats.

Yes.

He's not going anywhere.

This is terrible for the Capitals, no thanks.

 

[Hi-wayman]

Would you be happier with the package offered here or would you rather them get their points for the next 2 years on a non playoff team and walk? Im aware that they aren't really ever going to be "on the block" because it is a ridic task to trade both but if you are VAN you aren't going to get a better package, maybe the 2nd round pick can be withdrawn id be fine w that edit.

To answer your question, I'd be much happier the Sedins remaining with the Canucks, not only for the next 2 seasons, but for the next 4 seasons. Playoff team or not.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

In the event that the Washington Capitals are highly seeded team come second half of the season as we all expect and that Vancouver is a bottom feeder still in full rebuild.

Washington Sends: Andre Burakovsky, Lars Eller, Ilya Samsonov, 2017 1st round pick & Brooks Orpik

Vancouver Sends: Daniel Sedin & Henrik Sedin (50% retained) & 2018 2nd round pick

Breakdown: obviously an extremely difficult if not impossible maneuver to trade for a Sedin, I assume they would never want to play separately or I would have proposed Daniel alone but I know that it is unlikely either would waive their NMC unless they both went.

For Vancouver- they say goodbye to their franchise faces and allow them their best chance to be world champions, in return they receive good young forward talent in A.B & Eller (not young but in prime non the less) and get Washington's best goalie prospect to Mortgage the Markstrom project, they also take on Orpiks Cap to make deal work (possible mentor for canucks young D). Also receive a pick most likely 25-30 youd think.

For Washington- they go full in, Ovechkin isn't getting younger and if they are going to beat the likes of the Penguins and other Metro foe and reach the ECF or SCF they give themselves a 2 year gap to go full in on it while its hot. They give up a lot but receive two of the best pros for their playoff pushes.

Washington takes on 7 mil from sedin A and 3.5 from Sedin B = 10.5 Mil
Vancouver takes on 5.5 mil from Orpik,3.5 from Eller and about a mil for Burakov = 10 mil .. so cap issues should be taken care of

WSH: Ovechkin-Backstrom -Oshie
Williams-Kuznetsov- Vrana?
Sedin- Sedin- Mojo
Winnik- Beagle- Wilson

Alzner-Nisk
Orlov-Carlson
Chorney-Schmidt

**who doesn't want to see both Sedins and Ovi raise trophy for first time together cmon now

sedins at 50% would be the most valuable trade deadline assets moved in the last decade. either sedin would be worth a first and a pretty decent prospect

should washington be the team to deal for them?

i think this proposal is more intersting to discuss in march. but if im in charge of vancouver id be carefully asking the twins if they might accept a trade

 

[txpd]

It really isn't.

no, it really is. lets talk about Orpik. He is the Caps leader on defense. Without him the Caps have a marginal NHL'r playing every night and a 3rd pair d on the 2nd pair. You dont win a cup that way.

The Caps play one PP unit. The 2nd unit only gets mop up duty. The Sedins would have little impact. A third of Daniel's points and nearly half of Henrik;s came on the pp. That ice time is just not there on the Caps pp

It I really wonder if either of the sedins would out score burakovsky. Burakovsky had 34 evp. Henrik had....34 evp. Daniel had 41. Of course they played a lot more. Burt had 17 ev goals. Daniel had 20 and Henrik 5. Again, the Sedins played a lot more.

So...maybe this isnt such a great deal for the Caps.

 

[Kolzilla]

The time is now for caps to mortgage the future. After Holtby, Ovie, Nick, Carlson, Alzer etc. get old then you do a total rebuilt.

I see this 'logic' exhibited so often. No matter how good your team might be on paper, at the end of the day the most likely outcome is you will not win a cup any particular year. The best strategy, imo, is to have a competitive team year in and year out.

How often does this supernova-esque "build up a juggernaut! Sell all the young up and comers for aging vets!!! That's what will win us the cup!!!!! Then will nuke the team and rebuild!!!!!!" scenario work out?

Also, you're even less likely to win without players outplaying their contract, i.e. young, highly touted prospects/ELC players, like...Burakovsky. I get the subset of Caps fans wanted to upgrade something for Samsonov (though I personally don't like the proposed upgrades), but this kid with money burning a hole in his pocket mentality to move our young talent for aging vets or marginal upgrades is just nonsense.

 

[johnsic]

I agree that this particular trade is not the best option. As a rule of thumb Caps should trade prospects like Samsonov for players that can help them win now. Burakovsky is a player I would hold on to as he is already a top6 winger and is still young.

 

[eviohh26*]

Vancouver says . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7fCQlUhj0

 

[MrGone]

The Sedins aren't going anywhere. /thread

Perfect, I would rather see them go around the bowl nice and slow as they decline and stay in Vancouver.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

The time is now for caps to mortgage the future. After Holtby, Ovie, Nick, Carlson, Alzer etc. get old then you do a total rebuilt.

I don't know where the idea that the Caps window is closing soon comes from. Holtby is 26, Ovie is 30, Nick is 28, Carlson is 26, Alzner is 27, plus we've got 24 yo Kuznetsov, 21 yo Burakovsky, 22 yo Wilson, 25 yo Orlov, some really talented prospects like Vrana, Bowey, and Samsonov... The Caps have a while before their core is over the hill. I'd much rather keep the core together as long as possible than bet everything on a two year window and then blow it up.

 

[PG Canuck]

Would you be happier with the package offered here or would you rather them get their points for the next 2 years on a non playoff team and walk? Im aware that they aren't really ever going to be "on the block" because it is a ridic task to trade both but if you are VAN you aren't going to get a better package, maybe the 2nd round pick can be withdrawn id be fine w that edit.

I'd bet 95% of the Canucks fanbase is completely fine with having the Sedins retire Canucks. The trade window to move the Sedins is at least two years overdue, and it's less likely each and every passing day.

 

[PG Canuck]

We were a playoff team last year up until March Bud, (then we lost our two best Dmen and went on the worst losing streak of the year) next year we will be even better with the addition of Gudbranson and Eriksson. I'm not worried about that, and if I'm the GM I don't take a package of redundant players for two guys who can put 60-70 points a year at 50% retained even with their age we could absolutely get more than what you offered. Also the Sedins have NMC you are aware of that right?

The Canucks were 5 points from second last in the league on March 1st. They were 14 points out of third in the Pacific Division and 8 points out of a wildcard spot - they were not in the mix of the playoffs in March.

Gudbranson and Eriksson aren't going to be the difference of making up those 14 points in the division.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Perfect, I would rather see them go around the bowl nice and slow as they decline and stay in Vancouver.

Sheesh... alright dude.

Personally, I think two first liners (or elite 2nd liners in Washington) @ 3.5M cap hit a piece is not something Washington fans can scoff at--even though they are. Do you really want to be the team that doesn't capitalize on having Alex Ovechkin in the playoffs? I'm not saying this deal would ever happen, but seriously, Burakovsky and a top goalie prospect is too high a price to seriously load up? The pick swap is negligible, since it would be a difference of about 3-6 spots. I'd want slightly more coming from Washington to see the twins move.

 

[Gecklund]

It really isn't.

They give up a top 6 winger and a bunch of futures for someone that would be 3C and 3LW?

 

[PG Canuck]

Perfect, I would rather see them go around the bowl nice and slow as they decline and stay in Vancouver.

Canucks fans have no issue with that. I'm not saying the OP's proposal is perfect by any means, but the Capitals will continue to go around the bowl nice and slow as their core declines and ages without ever getting over the hump.

 

[Nucker101]

Caps would hands down be the favs for the cup if they had the Sedins with Ovie/Backs/Kuz. That would just be unfair.

 

[bobg1]

washington should reject this. although yes the sedins are great it puts them in cap heck for them having to resign a bunch of players next year

The Sedins are not great they are starting to decline and are near 35 years old

 

[Nucker101]

The Sedins are not great they are starting to decline and are near 35 years old

Considering the crap team they've played on and with league-wide scoring going down, their "decline" is being greatly exaggerated. It's not like they ever really relied on speed, in fact they rely less on speed than most of the NHL. Not to mention that they're always topping the team's fitness tests during training camp.

They're still legit 1st line players and elite puck possession players.

 

[Vorkosh]

Yeah, guys who can score 38 points while getting 13 minutes a night in their age 20/21 season grow on trees.

Yeah they're also sure fire bets to remain that way for their career... Cody? Cody Hodgson? is that you?

 

[DeltaSwede]

Loling pretty hard at anyone scoffing at the Sedin's or putting them on a 3rd line. Would put Washington over the top and make them instant Cup favourites. Saying that, it won't happen, the Sedin's will retire as Canucks.