Proposal: Van-Wsh (mid-season)

[PG Canuck]

The Sedins are not great they are starting to decline and are near 35 years old

It's going to be pretty easy to shut down a team with literally only two major scoring threats and little depth behind them to take pressure off them offensively. The Canucks' depth is too young to take that pressure off the Sedins, and teams just load up their best lines on the twins night after night.

Their production last year is nothing to scoff at either, and on a team like Washington where they would be facing second pairings and second lines, they could feast on those teams.

Also, not going to start a "West is better than the East" debate, but I feel like they could really flourish out there. The West's top teams are rough and tough and playing in the East could help limit injuries.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Sheesh... alright dude.

Personally, I think two first liners (or elite 2nd liners in Washington) @ 3.5M cap hit a piece is not something Washington fans can scoff at--even though they are. Do you really want to be the team that doesn't capitalize on having Alex Ovechkin in the playoffs? I'm not saying this deal would ever happen, but seriously, Burakovsky and a top goalie prospect is too high a price to seriously load up? The pick swap is negligible, since it would be a difference of about 3-6 spots. I'd want slightly more coming from Washington to see the twins move.

The thing is that Burakovsky is the kind of player who can extend our window, and Samsonov is good enough to be a the centerpiece of a trade that adds another window-extending sort of player (JVR, for instance). While loading up for Ovie's next two years is all well and good, a trade like this really hurts the Caps down the road, and those are also Ovie years we'd be sacrificing. To make a trade like this for you need a perfect fit to justify the risk, and the Sedins aren't it.

Also, losing Eller is an under appreciated part of this trade. We're expecting him to play a major role defensively at ES and on the PK. Replacing him with Henrik shifts a heavy burden onto Backstrom, which is gonna make the first line suffer.

Loling pretty hard at anyone scoffing at the Sedin's or putting them on a 3rd line. Would put Washington over the top and make them instant Cup favourites. Saying that, it won't happen, the Sedin's will retire as Canucks.

If they were on the Caps, they'd be on the 3rd line. Henrik at this point in his career isn't going to unseat Backstrom or Kuznetsov, both of whom are coming off of 70+ point seasons. And Daniel plays with Henrik, so he'd be on the 3rd line too. They'd also be on the 2nd PP unit. The Caps 1-3-1 is really rigid about handedness. There are only two spots for lefties on the PP, so it'd be Backstrom and Kuzy on the first unit with the Sedins on the second (and Daniel being in a spot under the net that does not play to his strengths at all).

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I've seen him in a number of proposals, I've been under the assumption that he's lost some luster in the eyes of some Capitals fans...have I been getting an inaccurate picture on Burakovsky? I'm entirely underprepared to comment on his play, short of looking at his stats.

He's still seen as a surefire top 6 forward with 40 goal potential. His biggest weakness right now is his strength. He needs to get stronger. That said, his wrist shot is still the best the Caps have had since prime Semin and he is a threat to score every time he shoots. He had a poor showing in the playoffs this year, but that just means he's a perfect fit in DC.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The Canucks were 5 points from second last in the league on March 1st. They were 14 points out of third in the Pacific Division and 8 points out of a wildcard spot - they were not in the mix of the playoffs in March.

Gudbranson and Eriksson aren't going to be the difference of making up those 14 points in the division.

My bad not in March, In Feb when the decline really started they were 5 points out of a playoff spot, that is when everything went off the rails, it also coincided with their top paring dmen going down. They were in a playoff spot as of American thanksgiving also which is usually indicative of who makes the playoffs. The addiction of a 30 goal scorer and a Dman that makes us harder to play against should help us stay in the mix, in my opinion at least.

 

[Gecklund]

Loling pretty hard at anyone scoffing at the Sedin's or putting them on a 3rd line. Would put Washington over the top and make them instant Cup favourites. Saying that, it won't happen, the Sedin's will retire as Canucks.

Who would they displace to play over the third line? Daniel might play top 6 but Bura is just fine there. Henrik would need to displace Backstrom and Kuz which he wouldn't so he would be on the third line.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The thing is that Burakovsky is the kind of player who can extend our window, and Samsonov is good enough to be a the centerpiece of a trade that adds another window-extending sort of player (JVR, for instance). While loading up for Ovie's next two years is all well and good, a trade like this really hurts the Caps down the road, and those are also Ovie years we'd be sacrificing. To make a trade like this for you need a perfect fit to justify the risk, and the Sedins aren't it.

Also, losing Eller is an under appreciated part of this trade. We're expecting him to play a major role defensively at ES and on the PK. Replacing him with Henrik shifts a heavy burden onto Backstrom, which is gonna make the first line suffer.



If they were on the Caps, they'd be on the 3rd line. Henrik at this point in his career isn't going to unseat Backstrom or Kuznetsov, both of whom are coming off of 70+ point seasons. And Daniel plays with Henrik, so he'd be on the 3rd line too. They'd also be on the 2nd PP unit. The Caps 1-3-1 is really rigid about handedness. There are only two spots for lefties on the PP, so it'd be Backstrom and Kuzy on the first unit with the Sedins on the second (and Daniel being in a spot under the net that does not play to his strengths at all).

Yep, this isn't a deal either team should make. Period. The Caps problem isn't scoring at all either, they need blue liners no?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I would absolutely trade all of this for the twins.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Whole lot of meh for holding 10+ million in salary to watch the two best players this organization has ever seen play for a team that can't get past the 2nd round.
Goaltending prospects are meh, Vancouver has been a steady goalie factory the last few years, we don't want one who is costing us our two best players ever.
Eller and Orpik are cap dumps to me, neither adds real value when you consider there isn't even enough value to accept back 9 million in cap dumps, while holding over 10 million in salary of contracts heading out the door and the only compensation is a late first round pick in a year the Canucks just dropped a 33rd overall and a recent 1st round pick prospect for a defender and 36 million on a top6 scorer.

Canucks need a scoring forward prospect that has potential to replace Hank Sedin as the offensive catalyst to the Canucks Top6.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Whole lot of meh for holding 10+ million in salary to watch the two best players this organization has ever seen play for a team that can't get past the 2nd round.
Goaltending prospects are meh, Vancouver has been a steady goalie factory the last few years, we don't want one who is costing us our two best players ever.
Eller and Orpik are cap dumps to me, neither adds real value when you consider there isn't even enough value to accept back 9 million in cap dumps, while holding over 10 million in salary of contracts heading out the door and the only compensation is a late first round pick in a year the Canucks just dropped a 33rd overall and a recent 1st round pick prospect for a defender and 36 million on a top6 scorer.

Canucks need a scoring forward prospect that has potential to replace Hank Sedin as the offensive catalyst to the Canucks Top6.

Yep and young blue liners.

 

[Hivemind]

I am more in favor of a splashy trade to add to the current Cup window than most Caps fans would be. That being said, I don't think this is one.

While that line-up looks awfully impressive, start looking at the special teams and you'll see where this deal breaks apart. The Caps don't have enough powerplay minutes to fit all that offensive talent together, and the Sedins aren't a particularly great need for the Caps' existing PP scheme considering they already have elite puck distributors in Backstrom and Kuznetsov. The only way the Caps could really fit them in would to be to restructure their second PP unit around the Sedins, which doesn't seem particularly likely or viable with a mid-season trade.

Similarly, you see the PK suffer. Once Eller is gone, who kills penalties for the Caps? The team is already down one PKer relative to last season with the subtraction of Chimera and Richards (with Eller taking Richards' minutes). You subtract Eller, and the only PKing centers the Caps would have are Beagle and Backstrom. Hardly any depth, and that would force a much larger PK role for Backstrom (not an ideal usage of Backstrom) and possibly require one of Henrik or Kuznetsov to learn the trade on the fly.

Adding the Sedins would be creating a glut of talent without the proper roles available to make use of that talent, while simultaneously creating shortfalls on the PK, 2RW, and match-up/shutdown center roles. Add on the fact that Andre Burakovsky was a high-end even strength producer last season (he only had 2 fewer EVG than Daniel Sedin) despite spending the first half the season on the 4th line, and the deal becomes a tougher sell. I think the Capitals would rather hang onto one of their most cost effective assets in Burakovsky (great production on ELCs is a frequent component of Stanley Cup winners) and look to upgrade the roster in other ways.

 

[Hivemind]

[

Canucks need a scoring forward prospect that has potential to replace Hank Sedin as the offensive catalyst to the Canucks Top6.

So.... Andre Burakovsky?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

[

So.... Andre Burakovsky?

Does he have #1 C potential? Or does he look to be a top sixer?

That poster wants someone to replace H. Sedin, our top line C, how if Burakovsky that guy?

 

[Hivemind]

Does he have #1 C potential? Or does he look to be a top sixer?

That poster wants someone to replace H. Sedin, our top line C, how if Burakovsky that guy?

He wants someone to replace Henrik as the offensive catalyst in the top six, not necessarily a center. Although Burakovsky did play some center in each of the past two years (more so in his rookie year), he looks to be a winger. But he's absolutely the type of winger who can be an offensive catalyst. He scored 17 even-strength goals last season, despite having very limited minutes for much of the season. He's a dynamic winger who can drive possessions and is a very adept finisher. He's already a top sixer, but has the potential to be a top line driver in the near future.

Is he Filip Forsberg or Vladimir Tarasenko? No. But he's in the next tier of budding forwards.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

He wants someone to replace Henrik as the offensive catalyst in the top six, not necessarily a center. Although Burakovsky did play some center in each of the past two years (more so in his rookie year), he looks to be a winger. But he's absolutely the type of winger who can be an offensive catalyst. He scored 17 even-strength goals last season, despite having very limited minutes for much of the season. He's a dynamic winger who can drive possessions and is a very adept finisher. He's already a top sixer, but has the potential to be a top line driver in the near future.

Is he Filip Forsberg or Vladimir Tarasenko? No. But he's in the next tier of budding forwards.

Is he in the tier of H. Sedin? If he isn't in the tier of Forsberg or Tarasenko, then no he wouldn't replace Hank.

Last year he played on the third line of one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL, do you really think he puts up 17 goals playing
for the Canucks? In a conference that is a lot harder to score in?

 

[Hivemind]

If the only way you trade Hank is for a Forsberg or Tarasenko, then you're not going to trade Hank. Your not going to get a younger superstar for an older superstar.

Do you really think a 20/21-year old Burakovsky is done developing? Kid has all the markings of a legitimate 1st liner. There's a reason the Capitals have no interest in trading him.

 

[eviohh26*]

Could you imagine a PP with Hank Ovi and Backstrom? 2 ELITE passers and PP specialist with the best shooter in the game. would be intense.

 

[txpd]

Could you imagine a PP with Hank Ovi and Backstrom? 2 ELITE passers and PP specialist with the best shooter in the game. would be intense.

Not really all that exciting. HSedin would be slotted in the Johansson spot below the goal line if they wanted to change personnel on the pp1. He wouldnt touch the puck often and rarely in a position to do much with it.

Backstrom, Carlson and Ovechkin get most of the touches.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

If the only way you trade Hank is for a Forsberg or Tarasenko, then you're not going to trade Hank. Your not going to get a younger superstar for an older superstar.

Do you really think a 20/21-year old Burakovsky is done developing? Kid has all the markings of a legitimate 1st liner. There's a reason the Capitals have no interest in trading him.

Of course I don't think that Henrik could get that, your completely missing my point.

No I don't think Burakovsky is done developing, quite the opposite actually.

There are many players who have had good first years in the exact same situation that Burakovsky finds himself in and the went stale, after. Now there is no guarantee that the same will happen again but its a huge risk non the less, and really does the guy have elite 1st line potential?

You also ignored my question, again do you really believe that Burakovsky puts up 17 goals on the Canucks last year?

 

[txpd]

Loling pretty hard at anyone scoffing at the Sedin's or putting them on a 3rd line. Would put Washington over the top and make them instant Cup favourites. Saying that, it won't happen, the Sedin's will retire as Canucks.

Who does HSedin bump down the lineup? Backstrom or Kuznetsov?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Of course I don't think that Henrik could get that, your completely missing my point.

No I don't think Burakovsky is done developing, quite the opposite actually.

There are many players who have had good first years in the exact same situation that Burakovsky finds himself in and the went stale, after. Now there is no guarantee that the same will happen again but its a huge risk non the less, and really does the guy have elite 1st line potential?

You also ignored my question, again do you really believe that Burakovsky puts up 17 goals on the Canucks last year?

Playing with the twins for the entire season, sure, he could score 25. The kid has all the tools, just needs to put it all together.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Playing with the twins for the entire season, sure, he could score 25. The kid has all the tools, just needs to put it all together.

I still don't think he would be a big enough chip as a centerpiece in a deal for the Sedin's with us retaining that much especially.

He is obviously a good young player though.

 

[Hivemind]

Of course I don't think that Henrik could get that, your completely missing my point.

No I don't think Burakovsky is done developing, quite the opposite actually.

There are many players who have had good first years in the exact same situation that Burakovsky finds himself in and the went stale, after. Now there is no guarantee that the same will happen again but its a huge risk non the less, and really does the guy have elite 1st line potential?

All players have risk associated with them, it's part of the game. Especially when you're gunning for younger players or prospects. If you're not willing to risk it on a younger player eventually, you're not going to find a replacement.

And, yes, Burakovsky has first line potential.

You also ignored my question, again do you really believe that Burakovsky puts up 17 goals on the Canucks last year?

I didn't answer your question because it's irrelevant. The 17 ESG figure was used to show his talent while getting minimal minutes. It was not shown to demonstrate how he would step into the Canucks immediately. It was shown to demonstrate his upside.

If you really must know, it's entirely dependent on how the Canucks used him. If they put him next to the Sedins, yes he scores 17. If they give him significant PP1 time (which the Caps did not), yes he scores 17. If they bury him on the 4th line as the Caps did for half the season, no he likely doesn't score 17.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I still don't think he would be a big enough chip as a centerpiece in a deal for the Sedin's with us retaining that much especially.

He is obviously a good young player though.

The Nucks shouldn't make a trade like this one, but it's clear that the Nucks won't win with the twins. It's hard to trade them because they can only be traded together, not separately. Their contracts are nice but there is some retention needed to fit them in. Most contenders don't have the space to fit both twins at the same time without at least sending a cap dump in return (hence Orpik being in the equation here).

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

All players have risk associated with them, it's part of the game. Especially when you're gunning for younger players or prospects. If you're not willing to risk it on a younger player eventually, you're not going to find a replacement.

And, yes, Burakovsky has first line potential.



I didn't answer your question because it's irrelevant. The 17 ESG figure was used to show his talent while getting minimal minutes. It was not shown to demonstrate how he would step into the Canucks immediately. It was shown to demonstrate his upside.

If you really must know, it's entirely dependent on how the Canucks used him. If they put him next to the Sedins, yes he scores 17. If they give him significant PP1 time (which the Caps did not), yes he scores 17. If they bury him on the 4th line as the Caps did for half the season, no he likely doesn't score 17.

So basically the only way he puts up 17 or more goals is if he plays with the Sedins? Which is also very much not a guarantee? So if we made this trade we would basically be giving up the only players he would succeed with?

Again not a trade we would make.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The Nucks shouldn't make a trade like this one, but it's clear that the Nucks won't win with the twins. It's hard to trade them because they can only be traded together, not separately. Their contracts are nice but there is some retention needed to fit them in. Most contenders don't have the space to fit both twins at the same time without at least sending a cap dump in return (hence Orpik being in the equation here).

Totally agree and its why they ever get traded.