Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[bossram]

You mentioned Lindholm is not young. But 29 is not old either. So hopefully in the Canucks' dep lineup he can return to doing what he does best.

You said he is in his absolute prime. He is not. Clearly.

I do think he will put up better counting production with VAN. His Sh% this season was abnormally low in CGY.

 

[Johnsie19]

Why is anyone worried about Lindholm's stat line? He is not being brought in to score 40 goals. If they wanted someone to cherry pick offense they would have kept Kuzy or even re-signed Horvat. They traded for Lindholm to get a Selke caliber 2C they haven't had since Ryan Kesler. Now they have a reliable center with defensive prowess for the 2nd and 3rd lines when inevitably Pius Suter and Teddy Bleuger get outmatched in the playoffs. They also have a primary option for the PK and someone who is better than average on face-offs in all zones.

If Lidholm scores at PPG the rest of the way, that would be a bonus (and he probably will with his new line mates). But I think that is entirely secondary to the real reason he is with Vancouver.

Better than average...hes 3rd in the league in faceoff wins. I don't think he is or has ever been Selke level despite the votes though.

 

[Wildcarder]

You said he is in his absolute prime. He is not. Clearly.

I do think he will put up better counting production with VAN. His Sh% this season was abnormally low in CGY.

So he's going from PDNO to PDOH?

...I'll show myself out.

 

[Double Dion]

The 1st in the Horvat trade was 12th at the time. In a really deep draft.
The 1st in this trade is 32nd. In a weak draft.

The difference there alone is massive. There are charts you can look at that give the approx value of each pick and it drops steeply as you go down.

But ya
Kuz = Beauv
Brzu = Raty (both around high 2nd value at the time)
12th 2023 >>> 32nd 2024 + 4th (324 to 136 which doesn't even factor the strength of the drafts)
Jurmo was just shedding a salary that we didn't want which allows us to sign a College UFA if we want


From Calgary POV you mean?


A premium was not paid I don't believe. In the end I think the value is fair for the player Lindholm has been for the last 18 months. But Van gave up very little.

Raty and Brzustewicz aren't remotely close to the same value. The pick is much better for sure, agreed on the better draft. You don't have a contract spot tied up on a prospect playing in Europe so that wasn't it.

As you know I have Bru in the same bucket as Willander and Lekkerimaki. I have Raty way below all 3. Below Podkolzin and EP2 as well.

 

[HolyGhost]

He’s been relegated to a lower position on the team due his lack of defensive play. He hasn’t had the same opportunities as he did last season.

ergo-- contract looking bad. Unless you getting 100 pts a year? you need to learn how to play D and at 5.5 he should have learned. What you are telling me is that last year? it was his line mates and not him that got those goals and pts

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Flames special teams will take a hit with the departure of Lindholm, he was by far their most complete player. He's an elite PKer and will improve Vancouver's special teams.

Expect the Canucks PP to improve too as Hughes now has another weapon to dish the puck to. Lindholm has a very good shot.

Lindholm, Pettersson, Boeser and Miller all can score equally as well. Almost scary just thinking about it. That is one lethal PP unit.

 

[Double Dion]

Better than average...hes 3rd in the league in faceoff wins. I don't think he is or has ever been Selke level despite the votes though.

He's an excellent faceoff man even with uncompetitive wingers. With competitive wingers he could be #1 in the league. He's also the best PK forward in the league.

I agree he's not a Selke level defensive player, but he's good defensively. Peca won multiple Selkes and wasn't even average defensively. It's not a top defensive forward award really. If it was you'd see guys like Danault, Backlund, JEE ect winning it.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

You said he is in his absolute prime. He is not. Clearly.

I do think he will put up better counting production with VAN. His Sh% this season was abnormally low in CGY.

We'll see. He was evidently checked out this season playing on a dysfunctional Calgary Flames team without complimentary linemates. I think it is very likely that the Canucks will provide him linemates and a system that suit his play much better.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Videos - NHL, NBA, NFL, Super Bowl, CFL, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Soccer

TSN's latest highlights and features from around the sporting world. NHL, NBA, NFL, CFL, MLB, PGA, LPGA, MLS, EPL, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, La Liga, Serie A, FIFA World Cup, Euro, ATP Tennis, WTA Tennis, Curling, Scotties, Brier, World Juniors.

www.tsn.ca

Lot of potential suitors like Boston and Florida went nuts in recent years, emptying the cupboards. And for some reason, the Avs are just cheap.

This was about as good as a deal as you can realistically expect for a rental.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

You said he is in his absolute prime. He is not. Clearly.

I do think he will put up better counting production with VAN. His Sh% this season was abnormally low in CGY.

The expectations for him in Calgary were way out of line. Especially after he put up 40 goals centering the best line in hockey. After Gaudreau and Tkachuk left, people started to see that he needed star players to consistently produce at a high level.

Lindholm is a great player playing behind other star players but he's not a primary player. Best in a supporting role.

 

[Johnsie19]

Raty and Brzustewicz aren't remotely close to the same value. The pick is much better for sure, agreed on the better draft. You don't have a contract spot tied up on a prospect playing in Europe so that wasn't it.

As you know I have Bru in the same bucket as Willander and Lekkerimaki. I have Raty way below all 3. Below Podkolzin and EP2 as well.

Raty (52nd pick) and Brzu (75th pick) actually had quite a few similarities. Both dropped a little in the draft and had excellent D+1 seasons. I think at the time of the trade for each their value's were probably somewhere around an early 2nd. You can quibble to some degree on that but certainly I don't think it's fair to say Brz is anywhere near Willander or Lek who were top half of the 1st picks who have trended well.

I think Raty's performance in the last yr has dropped his stock to some degree too but you have to evaluate at the date of the trade.

Jurmo was a guy they weren't going to use a contract spot on.

 

[Double Dion]

Raty (52nd pick) and Brzu (75th pick) actually had quite a few similarities. Both dropped a little in the draft and had excellent D+1 seasons. I think at the time of the trade for each their value's were probably somewhere around an early 2nd. You can quibble to some degree on that but certainly I don't think it's fair to say Brz is anywhere near Willander or Lek who were top half of the 1st picks who have trended well.

I think Raty's performance in the last yr has dropped his stock to some degree too but you have to evaluate at the date of the trade.

Jurmo was a guy they weren't going to use a contract spot on.

I just flat disagree. I think his perceived value is less. I have him in the same bucket as Ritchie from the Avs too. Most disagree with me. I still think I'm right.

 

[Johnsie19]

He's an excellent faceoff man even with uncompetitive wingers. With competitive wingers he could be #1 in the league. He's also the best PK forward in the league.

I agree he's not a Selke level defensive player, but he's good defensively. Peca won multiple Selkes and wasn't even average defensively. It's not a top defensive forward award really. If it was you'd see guys like Danault, Backlund, JEE ect winning it.

Ya its a reputational award. People create certain narratives about players and sports writers buy into that because obv they can't accurately determine who a top defensive fwd when they cant watch most games.

Not sure how you'd measure best PK fwd but he plays a lot on the pk which is great for Vancouver. As are those faceoff stats.

I just flat disagree. I think his perceived value is less. I have him in the same bucket as Ritchie from the Avs too. Most disagree with me. I still think I'm right.

That's fine to have that opinion but you have to accept its a pretty extreme outlier position.

 

[Double Dion]

Ya its a reputational award. People create certain narratives about players and sports writers buy into that because obv they can't accurately determine who a top defensive fwd when they cant watch most games.

Not sure how you'd measure best PK fwd but he plays a lot on the pk which is great for Vancouver. As are those faceoff stats.


That's fine to have that opinion but you have to accept its a pretty extreme outlier position.

I do think the opinion is an outlier for sure. I don't think the evidence is.

Him and Backlund together form the best duo on the PK in the league for forwards. You can look at it on hockey reference. Backlund is the better 5 on 5 defensive player, but Lindholm is better on the PK. That part is eye test because they almost always kill together.

 

[Bond]

Ya its a reputational award. People create certain narratives about players and sports writers buy into that because obv they can't accurately determine who a top defensive fwd when they cant watch most games.

Not sure how you'd measure best PK fwd but he plays a lot on the pk which is great for Vancouver. As are those faceoff stats.


That's fine to have that opinion but you have to accept its a pretty extreme outlier position.

Same as Ritchie isn’t crazy outlier position in context of his progression. Not Willander or Lekkermaki though.

 

[Lawzy]

You said he is in his absolute prime. He is not. Clearly.

I do think he will put up better counting production with VAN. His Sh% this season was abnormally low in CGY.

This makes for an excellent natural experiment into whether the Canucks system actually promotes high shooting percentage.

 

[muddywaters]

Good Luck in Vancouver Lindy you were a great Flame !!!

 

[Three On Zero]

ergo-- contract looking bad. Unless you getting 100 pts a year? you need to learn how to play D and at 5.5 he should have learned. What you are telling me is that last year? it was his line mates and not him that got those goals and pts

If it was longer it’s potentially a bad contract, but it’s still short.

 

[dman34]

Have you looked at Lindholm's stat line? He obviously does a lot more than Kuzmenko but he has struggled for a while now and will cost 8+ next year. I think it is a good trade for both teams. Vancouver didn't overpay and the Flames did as good as expected with how Lindholm was playing.

I'm not so sure any team will be offering Lindholm 8+ based on his past 2 seasons.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Raty and Brzustewicz aren't remotely close to the same value. The pick is much better for sure, agreed on the better draft. You don't have a contract spot tied up on a prospect playing in Europe so that wasn't it.

As you know I have Bru in the same bucket as Willander and Lekkerimaki. I have Raty way below all 3. Below Podkolzin and EP2 as well.

Actually you had Brew in a lesser tier and had a ridiculous proposal which I said was way off and it was.
Don't pretend you didn't expect Lekkerimakki and one of Brew plus a a 1st.

 

[Homesick]

That was the massive overpayment needed to trade Lindholm in the division?

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

We'll see. He was evidently checked out this season playing on a dysfunctional Calgary Flames team without complimentary linemates. I think it is very likely that the Canucks will provide him linemates and a system that suit his play much better.

JR said he will be on a line with EP, which makes the most sense.
JT and Brock are making everyone better but that 2nd line needs to get going.

 

[Bond]

I'm not so sure any team will be offering Lindholm 8+ based on his past 2 seasons.

I think someone will bite. His career average is still around Horvat and it will only be 7 years unless he really clicks in Vancouver

That was the massive overpayment needed to trade Lindholm in the division?

Flames don’t really care. They are about to bottom out. I think the only team that would needed to really overpay was Edmonton

 

[THE Green Man]

Honestly though, what really happened to the Vancouver Calgary rivalry, We are always great trade partners haha, I also don't think the fan bases hate each other anymore.

I think we do just haven't both been good at the same time in years. Now the focus for both is "just not Edmonton"

The good news is, even if he does become a stud for Calgary...every time their fans want to rub it in Canucks faces, they'll still have to figure out how to type out his name. And i think that's punishment enough and probably a bit of a deterrent.

Funniest post of the whole thread

late first, prospect taken in the 3rd, a bust, a conditional 4th and a cap dump that gets 5.5 off the books next year when the Canucks need to re-sign Pettersson and Hronek

Lindholm fills all the Canucks needs, another top 6 fwd that can play C or W, a PKer, another fwd for the powerplay and lets the Canucks stack the top line while having a 2C, or even using him as a 3C if needed. Plus, the Canucks don't need more scoring, they need better defensive players.

Sure, there's good value, but it's certainly not a fleecing.

To be fair you can always use more scoring, but Lindholm can bring both scoring and defensive game making him a logical target compared to just one dimensional scoring wingers that will be available.

this trade will be a WIN IF, vancouver wins a cup and goes far. they still have next year as window opportunity for the core. B. if peterson decides to bolt, lindholm is good plan B option for them to resign. and van gets some nice prospects/nhl players for a potential petterson deal if it comes down to that in the summer.

Don't like thinking about Petey walking but the point of Lindholm being the safety net if that happens is intruiging.

The best part of this for the Flames is that they are actually not tripling down on their decision to not rebuild and force themselves into purgatory indefinitely.

Sell hard and actually try to get a few top 3 picks for the first time in franchise history. Come back strong in a handful of years and hopefully Huberdeau will hit LTIRetirement for the tail end of that deal and they can compete with some new young talent on their roster.

She's over for the foreseeable future in Calgary but that's not the worst thing. Let's recruit a few tank commanders!

Fire Conroy and hire Benning then. Master tank commander right there for you

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I question really what the vision Allvin has if they re-sign Lindholm at his reported contract demands.

He's a worse player than Horvat and they didn't want to pay Horvat. Doesn't make sense to do it with Lindholm. They also have far more important needs to allocate the cap space toward (Petey, Hronek, Demko, and eventually Hughes).

Lindholm is absolutely a better all around player than Horvat, he just isn't riding a ridiculous 21.7% shooting percentage, instead it's the exact opposite as Lindholm is at a 6.8% shooting percentage this season. Even if Horvat is a better offensive player (debatable), Lindholm is a far superior 200 ft player.

It's worth noting that they haven't committed to extending him yet either, but overall Lindholm will likely be a better fit and I think he will have similar synergy with EP40 as he did with Gaudreau