Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th
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Win win trade.
As a Canucks fan it seems so weird that Conroy and Allvin are so open to trading with each other.
I'll say this though as a Canucks fan... I hate the Flames with a passion, but the NHL is so much funner when the Flames and Canucks are both good. They have one of the best rivalries in sports. That series in 2004 was one of the best playoff series I've ever watched.
Best of luck Flames fans.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
Ahhh PNHLe... the same stat who ranked Ty Smith and Ryan Merkley over Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar.
I like the trade as a rental. I will really, really dislike re-signing Lindholm. It'll look awful quickly. He's already headed downhill, and was overrated as a player to begin with. His contract demands from CGY were absolutely ridiculous.
The absolute max I would give him is something like the ROR contract: $4.5-$5M x 4 years. Any more, I'm good with him leaving.
I've filled in your projected lineup with realistic AAVs to retain these guys (especially considering for all of the UFAs, it's basically their last/only chance at a good contract, and their agents know it). It already comes out to $86.8M, and that's without a 6D or any extra roster players. It's not flexible enough and also eliminates cap space that will be needed to give Demko a big raise.
They should not retain Lindholm.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
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I think, JR isn't stupid and his MO is to look at player fits plus underutilized players. Yes Allvin is GM but I bet he ascribes to JR'S ethos. The ethos isn't without risk, but I seem to recall JR previously had the last laugh on some moves wise a few times when some felt he was beyond senile.
The Flames and Canucks have been playing compatible styles of hockey for a while now. That's why the swaps have worked well for both teams. Risks of not fitting are lowered dramatically when trading with each other and Allvin has cleverly kept prices reasonable/getting it done by taking the Flames needs and timing into consideration.
I wouldn't be surprised if Canucks want to dip into the Flames roster again to continue shoring up their roster. I just don't see how that makes sense with the assets on hand, but maybe they surprise us with some 3 way trade that makes a ton of sense. Who knows.
HuGort
Registered User
Canucks don't want to give him extension too quick. Most these deals go bad. Dubois, Huberdeau, Meier, etc...
You want get 3-4 month look at Lindholm first. See how fits in your team. Especially considering he's not having good season and already turned down 9 million long term contract.
You want get 3-4 month look at Lindholm first. See how fits in your team. Especially considering he's not having good season and already turned down 9 million long term contract.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
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Interesting, I will dislike this trade if he does not re-sign.
(There isn't a lot this team can trade into out there) He's got to take somewhere closer to $7m AAV. The type of deal they were probably pitching to Horvat. If they get him on that, and deal Mikheyev, don't re-sign Zadarov, Cole and Myers, then it works. Hronek is also cooling off.
Let's see how Lindholm fits first.
It's a fair deal as far as market value goes. Kuzmenko was approaching pure cap dump territory. Maybe they could have flipped him to Chicago for another 3rd round pick. Didn't have much value. Jurmo is essentially a nothing prospect at this point. What's he worth? Like a 7th? There's a conditional mid round pick. And of course, the 1st, which will be very, very late if the Canucks win the division.
The trade is basically a late 1st, a bunch of low-value pieces, and Hunter Cantspellhisname. What anyone thinks of the deal basically depends on their evaluation of Hunter B. It seems many in the scouting community are not really enamoured with him, relative to his gaudy production. From a Canucks POV, to get a player that fits all their needs perfectly (PP1, RH center, position flexibility, two-way play) in a year they can make a run, it makes sense. CGY can get a bunch of assets back to put in the stockpile.
I like the trade as a rental. I will really, really dislike the trade if they re-sign Lindholm. It'll look awful quickly. He's already headed downhill, and was overrated as a player to begin with. His contract demands from CGY were absolutely ridiculous. The absolute max I would give him is something like the ROR contract: $4.5-$5M x 4 years. Any more, I'm good with him leaving.
To be clear, I do quite like this trade. As a pure rental. Lindholm on paper fits everything they need. This is a year where the Canucks really have the opportunity to make a run. To me, the trade package is not crazy. It's market value, but mostly quantity.Interesting, I will dislike this trade if he does not re-sign.
He's got to take somewhere closer to $7m AAV. The type of deal they were probably pitching to Horvat. If they get him on that, and deal Mikheyev, don't re-sign Zadarov, Cole and Myers, then it works. Hronek is also cooling off.
Let's see how Lindholm fits first.
But there is no degree of success Lindholm can have here that would convince me signing him to anything other than what I suggested (max $5M x 4) is a good idea. He is already declining. He is overrated. And they should not be locking big contracts into 2nd tier players when they need the flexibility to eventually re-sign not just Petey and Hronek, but also Demko and Quinn. You're also suggesting gutting their blueline depth (which has become a strength of the team!) to fit him in.
I don't think it's worth it. Let's have him for a good time, not a long time.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
Lmao it's a points projection based on current production in a players current league using historical averages of player growth. Makar had a very mediocre D+1 season (1st year of College hockey) but exploded in the 2nd year. If you've read anything about PNHLe is even states that players tend to have a dropoff when going up a hockey level due to loss in ice time, deployment, etc.
Again it's also standard player growth too, Makar and Hughes both exceeded expectations (Makar especially). The model is accurate in the same way the 7+ day weather apps are accurate. The further out you are the higher the chance of variance.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
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I hear you, and I understand your position. I'm just not sure VAN will be able to find a 2C of is calibre for under $8m in the next 2-3 years. At 8-9% of the cap, the average 2C may cost $7.5m AAV. Why not lock in a better than average one at that same number?
This is what they were trying to do with Horvat, but failed.
As to the return: I'm not enamoured with it because I didn't consider Kuzmenko a cap dump, but maybe that's all the interest they were getting as of right now so far from the TDL. Whatever the case, I understand a premium had to be paid to a division rival. It got done. Good on them.
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It vastly overrates junior players, while underrating college players and pros.
It's a fun little stat, but thats where it ends.
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
cannucky
Registered User
- Aug 18, 2011
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And Crosby replies "No you hold mine"
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
1. How exactly is that relevant to my point about Brzustewics vs Kerins? They both played in the same league.
2. That is just not true. Lane Hutson and Seamus Casey are both currently being projected as 100+ point players on the model.
Your argument is based a comparison of 4 players only. The 2 that are NHL stars both had very underwhelming freshmen years at their respective colleges in 17/18 whereas the 2 others who are more or less busts both had very strong junior years that year. Again I repeat "If you've read anything about PNHLe is even states that players tend to have a dropoff when going up a hockey level due to loss in ice time, deployment, etc."
The model is far from perfect but it's not just random made up bullshit like you are trying to imply. The statistics are there and are relatively accurate. But like I said with the weather, the further out you are the more variance.
Zobitembois
Devilsfanindisguise
- Jan 25, 2011
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Yea, no way personally I can see this making sense past a 4yr deal. Teams over the past few yrs have really given power in this sense to the players for longevity of contracts, and it never pays off for guys in their late20s early 30s.
Most teams do it off season shooting for the cup in the present. Whether Canucks win or lose this year, it's a transition year from the end of the Benning era to correct how salary is allocated across the roster. They can't overpay someone whose reached the mid end stage of their career and drop another long term anchor. It never pays off in the end.
If they win there is no reason to re sign him. Job is finished story is written finally. If they don't win, they have to allocate dollars to more valuable assets and then fill the roster with what's leftover in money. He's not a core guy
TheNumber4
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2011
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I think some Canucks fans here are now shitting on Bryzstewicz because we traded him…
He definitely has some things he needs to overcome to make his game translate to the NHL.
But, it’s also not super common to see a kid improve that much from his D to his D+1 season.
His skating needs to improve…but it’s not like a lot of guys who need to improve their skating. He’s actually a good skater, but just lacks both the initial quickness and top end speed. But his edges are strong.
I could see him becoming faster with added leg strength and as he physically matures.
My biggest concern with him is he’s too passive defensively. It’s like he’s unsure of how he wants to defend.
But, I’d prefer that as a weakness than a guy who just doesn’t know where he should be and is clueless.
He’s definitely not an A prospect. But, he’s a solid B prospect, and potentially even a B+.
I think both of the weaknesses or things he needs to improve upon are things that could develop. He also seems like a great kid willing to put in the work.
Also, RHD prospects don’t grow on trees.
I’m very happy with the deal from a Canucks perspective. I didn’t want to lose Willander, LekkerimakI or EP(#2).
Jurmo is nothing.
But, I also think it’s a good deal for the Flames.
No one got fleeced, or took advantage of the other.
He definitely has some things he needs to overcome to make his game translate to the NHL.
But, it’s also not super common to see a kid improve that much from his D to his D+1 season.
His skating needs to improve…but it’s not like a lot of guys who need to improve their skating. He’s actually a good skater, but just lacks both the initial quickness and top end speed. But his edges are strong.
I could see him becoming faster with added leg strength and as he physically matures.
My biggest concern with him is he’s too passive defensively. It’s like he’s unsure of how he wants to defend.
But, I’d prefer that as a weakness than a guy who just doesn’t know where he should be and is clueless.
He’s definitely not an A prospect. But, he’s a solid B prospect, and potentially even a B+.
I think both of the weaknesses or things he needs to improve upon are things that could develop. He also seems like a great kid willing to put in the work.
Also, RHD prospects don’t grow on trees.
I’m very happy with the deal from a Canucks perspective. I didn’t want to lose Willander, LekkerimakI or EP(#2).
Jurmo is nothing.
But, I also think it’s a good deal for the Flames.
No one got fleeced, or took advantage of the other.
HFpapi
Registered User
Can mods start putting in the OP or title the post in which the actual full trade is announced in the thread for the first time?
It seems incredibly common sense, why is it not already a thing? Always flipping through 11 pages to find where the discussion can start with the full trade known.
Edit: 20 pages had to scan to find where the actual trade discussion starts.
It seems incredibly common sense, why is it not already a thing? Always flipping through 11 pages to find where the discussion can start with the full trade known.
Edit: 20 pages had to scan to find where the actual trade discussion starts.
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Lindholm's combined talent as a Centre and right shot makes him a rare commodity in the league.
He is now a core piece of the team like Manny Malhotra was back in the day.
JT Miller is older than Lindholm and signed for 6 more years.
They will resign Lindholm.
I expect Kuzmenko to pick up his scoring once he becomes the primary trigger on a line with Kadri or Backlund. He needs the puck down low and once the Calgary Centres figure this out he will be fine.
Kuzmenko will also be very much missed in the locker room and by the Fans.
Like Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz is not a great skater or great defensively. He is a heady passer and plays the coveted RHD position.
Joni Jurmo is huge and a very good skater who likes to carry the puck but is not very physical for his size. He actually looks like he should be playing a forward position, as his defensive play and hockey IQ are not ideal but his stick-handling is pretty good for a giant player. He reminds me of Christian Wolanin though CW has a higher hockey IQ. He could be more effective on the smaller ice rinks in NA.
Good trade for both teams at different stages of the cycle.
He is now a core piece of the team like Manny Malhotra was back in the day.
JT Miller is older than Lindholm and signed for 6 more years.
They will resign Lindholm.
I expect Kuzmenko to pick up his scoring once he becomes the primary trigger on a line with Kadri or Backlund. He needs the puck down low and once the Calgary Centres figure this out he will be fine.
Kuzmenko will also be very much missed in the locker room and by the Fans.
Like Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz is not a great skater or great defensively. He is a heady passer and plays the coveted RHD position.
Joni Jurmo is huge and a very good skater who likes to carry the puck but is not very physical for his size. He actually looks like he should be playing a forward position, as his defensive play and hockey IQ are not ideal but his stick-handling is pretty good for a giant player. He reminds me of Christian Wolanin though CW has a higher hockey IQ. He could be more effective on the smaller ice rinks in NA.
Good trade for both teams at different stages of the cycle.
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