Speculation: Value of Bedard...for Kings ransom

[Irie]

On another Habs forum, It appears that I'm all alone that IF we get Bedard, to trade him for a kings ransom.

My reasoning is that Lindros was also a generational player but it was the Avalanche that won cups and Philly went nowhere fast with Lindros. Also looking at Oilers and they are not dominating despite having the current BEST player in the world AND another top 10 best.

A speculative Kings ransom trade would look like...Stutzle, Chabot and Pinto. I'm NOT saying that the Sens will do it, but that is what it going to look like, if not MORE.

Problem of course is that few teams have that many young players that they can trade away. NJ, Buffalo and Sens are the ones that have enough very good to great players to even make this kind of trade. Teams like the Habs have a LOT of young players but we basically have to cut deep into the team to trade for Bedard.

Another issue is cost. Example are the 3 Sens which combined and full potential can cost 25 million. That's far more then Bedard can get even if he is the highest paid player in the league.

On the other hand, an injured superstar hurts FAR more then 1 star out of 3.

Sooo....

Let's say your team won the lottery, would you trade Bedard?

~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, this is what the Lindros trade tree looks like...

How Lindros trade helped Avalanche win two Stanley Cups | NHL Trade Tree

www.sportsnet.ca

Trying to replicate the Lindros trade is probably not realistic.

What made the Lindros trade so good for the Nordiques was Forsberg. If Forsberg was established, there is no way Philly pulls the trigger on that deal.

I think here you are hoping for a Lindros trade with an established Forsberg, and that likely will not work for the other team.

So to pull off something comparable would require some luck. Say trading 1OA for 3OA with a bunch of smaller valued adds, and then someone like Carlsson being the 3rd pick and at least being as good as Bedard. But that is a long shot gamble that Montreal would not make. (The only reason Quebec made the trade was because Lindros came out and said he would not sign with them).

 

[stevo61]

Well...we can always change Bedard to Berdeaux...

A cup sell a lot more merchandise then a player.

I think either team making this deal is far off from a Cup and will take time. Atleast having a franchise player earns you that time and keeps excitement around the team. Being a Montreal fan a game breaking elite of the elite talent is what theyve needed for a long time.

Also depends on if this team wants vets or kids. It would cost Columbus something silly like their top 3 pick, Johnson and Jiricek atleast if its more the future route. If they want a more vet approach it probably doesnt work no matter what is thrown together.

If Columbus gets 1st there is not a thing anyone could realistically offer and the optics of trading the prize after a disasterous season would be careersuicide for Jarmo

 

[HabsAddict]

I thought this was about Bedard to LA, so I’ll take a shot:

To ???: Byfield, Kaliyev, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Fagemo, Grans
To LA: Bedard

Without analyzing every player, if it's Vancouver/Chicago but the Habs would not want quantity back. We are already loaded with a lot of pretty good young players but no stars or superstars....yet.

Every team that get's him has a slightly different set of needs. Some will boost a dozen steps up the standings, some will accelerate their re-build.

 

[McRpro]

As others said, it is not happening. I do see a few targets though that would make sense to trade Bedard for (at least from a Havs point of view).

1) Makar straight up is an easy yes

2) Seider + 19th would get me to pull the trigger

3) Heinskanen straight up would make me think long and hard.

That’s pretty much it though.

I don't see the Habs doing any of those but #2 is laughably bad. Having an 18 year old, supposed generational talent on an entry level contract is possibly the most valuable asset in the league.

 

[EK392000]

Canucks don't have enough young talent to pay the price and still be competitive.

It would probably be Pettersson and Hughes, maybe more, leaving nothing in the cupboard. Same as the Habs, the ask would be CC/Suzuki/Guhle (more?) which leaves a pretty bare cupboard unless we get Dubois

Few teams have enough young talent to do this.

It would not take Pettersson and Hughes. EP just put up 102 points. That is basically the ceiling for Bedard.

 

[stevo61]

It would not take Pettersson and Hughes. EP just put up 102 points. That is basically the ceiling for Bedard.

The ceiling? What?

 

[EK392000]

The ceiling? What?

If Bedard fulfills his potential, he’ll be roughly a 100 point player. EP is already that. Why would you trade a 100 point player who has scored 100 points for a player who might score 100 points.

 

[Hierso]

Bedard would cost to much for it to be any realistic scenario where a team guts the team for one player. Pettersson + Hughes would be a good example of that, they got Bedard, now what?

 

[stevo61]

If Bedard fulfills his potential, he’ll be roughly a 100 point player. EP is already that. Why would you trade a 100 point player who has scored 100 points for a player who might score 100 points.

If you think his potential is a 100 point forward then I suggest you should watch hockey outside of your own team

 

[HabsAddict]

Bedard would cost to much for it to be any realistic scenario where a team guts the team for one player. Pettersson + Hughes would be a good example of that, they got Bedard, now what?

For a team like Vancouver, it would be starting a foundation to build on. It will still take years to accumulate surrounding talent.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Arizona have the players as well.

Kelller + Cooley + pick #6 2023 could make this trade happen

If I had bedard, I would not be interested in that

 

[EK392000]

If you think his potential is a 100 point forward then I suggest you should watch hockey outside of your own team

How is a 100 points some sort of insult? That’s a generational talent lol are you expecting 120 points?

EDIT: I meant to say franchise, not generational.

 

[stevo61]

How is a 100 points some sort of insult? That’s a generational talent lol are you expecting 120 points?

So Petterson is a generational talent? 11 players scored 100 points and a couple more right there. I think generational loses its meaning when double digit guys are doing it. So yes I easily believe Bedards offensive ceiling is significantly higher

 

[HabsAddict]

If you think his potential is a 100 point forward then I suggest you should watch hockey outside of your own team.

Ummm....100 would be the floor, not the ceiling. Guys like CC would be 50 goal threats on his line.

 

[EK392000]

So Petterson is a generational talent? 11 players scored 100 points and a couple more right there. I think generational loses its meaning when double digit guys are doing it. So yes I easily believe Bedards offensive ceiling is significantly higher

whoops I meant franchise, not generational. I agree that generational is becoming diluted.

 

[HabsAddict]

whoops I meant franchise, not generational. I agree that generational is becoming diluted.

Lemieux, McDavid, Crosby, Lindros...generational players.

We don't know if Bedard is going to be Crosby V2, but it's a pretty good probability. They are so rare that their value is hard and expensive to get/replace.

 

[BLNY]

Arizona wins lottery, trades Bedard for Auston Matthews.

Nah. They'll wait the year and sign him. Then they'd have both.

 

[Mike Jones]

If Bedard didn't like where he was going he could ask for a trade and that would put the team with the first overall in very interesting spot.

If you're a rebuilding team do you go for Arizona's picks? Do you try to load up on roster players and/or prospects?

If I had to trade a first overall with Bedard's potential I think I'd try to hold some sort of auction where each team has a chance to make their best offer. They could go through as many rounds as they need to before settling on a particular offer.

The final package would probably wind up being something like a pair of firsts, two high and prospects and two high end roster players.

 

[HabsAddict]

So to pull off something comparable would require some luck. Say trading 1OA for 3OA with a bunch of smaller valued adds, and then someone like Carlsson being the 3rd pick and at least being as good as Bedard. But that is a long shot gamble that Montreal would not make. (The only reason Quebec made the trade was because Lindros came out and said he would not sign with them).

I thought about that but it would be pretty close in picks. Let's say Habs have 1st and trade for 2nd and major add.

I'm good with Fantilli and....Strome.

 

[Schemp]

Arizona wins lottery, trades Bedard for Auston Matthews.

Naw, we'd keep Bedard and sign AM in free agency. It would be enough incentive for AM to come home.

 

[Hierso]

For a team like Vancouver, it would be starting a foundation to build on. It will still take years to accumulate surrounding talent.

If we're talking about a full blown re-build sure but Vancouver isn't heading down that road from my understanding. If a team is chasing the playoffs Pettersson + Hughes have a higher value than Bedard does, if a team is rebuilding Bedard is the way to go and something tells me that the team that ends up with Bedard is on the re-building side of things.

 

[Ovi895]

Bedard has McDavid level hype but not the skating or size. Entirely possible he tops out as a better Jack Hughes or Brayden Point which is still a franchise player.

But say Canucks lose their mind and offer Demko, Hughes, Pettersson and Kuzmenko for him. #1 G, D, C, W. That would pretty much let the Habs fill out a cup contending roster overnight minus a hole at 1RD. Feel like that would be tempting to get all those players on the roster at the same time as Suzuki and Caulfield are hitting their stride

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Alright lets use Mcdavid as an example here. A "Lindros trade" for McDavid in his D+1 year would be something like (and I am not saying 1 team has all these players)
- Mitch Marner
- Jared McCann
- Kyle Okposo
- Leon Draistle
- Nick Leddy
- Jonathan Quick
- 2x 1sts

IMO there is no chance in hell that would ever be offered today

 

[MOGlLNY]

Wouldn't do this as a sabres fan but id imagine it would be something like

Power (young roster + main piece) + UPL (young roster) + Savoie (high pick) + Kulich (A prospect) + Unprotected 1st (draft capital)

 

[HabsAddict]

Bedard has McDavid level hype but not the skating or size. Entirely possible he tops out as a better Jack Hughes or Brayden Point which is still a franchise player.

But say Canucks lose their mind and offer Demko, Hughes, Pettersson and Kuzmenko for him. #1 G, D, C, W. That would pretty much let the Habs fill out a cup contending roster overnight minus a hole at 1RD. Feel like that would be tempting to get all those players on the roster at the same time as Suzuki and Caulfield are hitting their stride

Stop it already, I might get excited!

For those 4, I think that Habs have to add some of the extra youngsters we have. Someone like Harris and Pinard. Also too much salary IF we add Dubois.

Those 4 and Dubois, the Canuckians would be top heavy overnight contenders. 3 first lines, decent defense and goaltending. Vicious power play.