Proposal: Utah - Buffalo Part Duex

[DJN21]

I'd rather bet on our ridiculously over-talented d-corps to lead us to the play-offs than another winger and a high pick.

cool, watch them get caved in.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Some Sabrefans struggle with these concepts:
A: it’s OK to have 3 really talented defenceman.

B: really talented young defencemen like Power and Byram usually also become pretty good in their own zone too once they get enough experience.

It’s weird, because most of them have seen first-hand the way Dahlin has transformed that part of his game.

Neither of those guys entered the NHL with the reputation of being shitty defensively.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I dont view him that way at all. I prefer to keep him. The point that OP said numerous times was just for fun. If given the choice between:

Crouse
Iginla
Byram locked up longer
still having #11 to keep or trade (id trade for Cirelli personally)

makes it a choice between:

adding Crouse, Cirelli, Iginla (which makes our forward prospects more moveable), and Byram locked up longer (and at less than Power).....makes some sense even if trading Power makes no sense. It was a hypothetical

You want a playoff roster? You trade for Crouse, Cirelli and eventually Iginla...

I get the depth. For me, the greatest Sabres team ever was 2005-2006, which didn't have the superstar but also had so few, if any, glaring weaknesses. It would be tough to build that type of team again today.

I just don't see Byram as all that close to Power with his major advantage contract — something that will disappear on his own longer deal.

I think this time Sabres have a clear opportunity to build something more like the Anaheim Mighty Ducks team that won it all. That team had three good D helped the team tilt the ice and two all-stars. Pronger/Niedermayer/Beuchemin chewed up 80 minutes a night.

If Samuellson/Byram both develop and stay healthy, it's a deadly top four potentially. Power/Dahlin as superstars with two very strong guys behind them. You could almost just hide your third pair in easy minutes like Ducks did.

 

[MeenOlViks]

Huh. Who says Power doesn't want to be in Buffalo? That is bizarre. He is from the west end of Toronto. His family has season tickets (ran into his mom before a game in Florida once). It is very easy for them to see him or for him to go home.

That’s exactly my point

 

[DJN21]

I get the depth. For me, the greatest Sabres team ever was 2005-2006, which didn't have the superstar but also had so few, if any, glaring weaknesses. It would be tough to build that type of team again today.

I just don't see Byram as all that close to Power with his major advantage contract — something that will disappear on his own longer deal.

I think this time Sabres have a clear opportunity to build something more like the Anaheim Mighty Ducks team that won it all. That team had three good D helped the team tilt the ice and two all-stars. Pronger/Niedermayer/Beuchemin chewed up 80 minutes a night.

If Samuellson/Byram both develop and stay healthy, it's a deadly top four potentially. Power/Dahlin as superstars with two very strong guys behind them. You could almost just hide your third pair in easy minutes like Ducks did.

I'd like our forward core to be able to match that Ducks team....and we aren't even close.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Ryan Smith just bought the team for a BILLION dollars. He’s going to want his moment on the stage, at the Sphere. I believe Utah is 100% picking at 6th.

Regardless of optics if this was seriously offered to GMBA he would be insane not to take it, and I'm a huge fan of Crouse and GMBA's drafting. Power is a #1D already. He's well on his way to becoming a top 10 or top 5 d-man in the league. He's exactly who you hope to draft at 6 and he's doing it NOW and not in 2+ years. He's freaking 21.

It's almost definitely not going to happen anyways because there's no way Buffalo would offer this, but this is about as much of a slam dunk as you can get. And again, I f***ing love Crouse and hope he stays with Utah for another 10 years and retires there.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

crouse for 11 pick or Byram for crouse

 

[Dead Coyote]

crouse for 11 pick or Byram for crouse

Crouse is worth far more than the 11th pick and I also think it's pretty unlikely he would get traded for Byram, who I would say is also probably at least slightly less valuable than him. Utah would probably love to get Byram on the team but they'd be looking to do the same sort of deal they did for Durzi or McBain and the same kind of deal Buffalo would love for Crouse, picks and prospects.

But more importantly I don't think Utah wants to trade Crouse at all and it would take a bonafide upgrade to trade him. They definitely won't be trading him for picks or prospects.

He's on a team friendly deal, signed long term, is exactly the kind of player you want for the playoffs, and would probably produce a lot more on a team like Buffalo.

I think his value compared to what fans think is a lot higher. I can imagine there might also be some Utah fans who wouldn't take this deal because Crouse + 6th is insanely valuable, but personally I think this is one of the only ways they could acquire a legit #1D who is young enough to fit their rebuild. Losing Crouse hurts and wouldn't be easy to replace but gaining Power gives them a hugely improved D-core and allows them to play 1 of Durzi/Moser on the 2nd pair which would be fantastic for the team.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

11 pick, byram and krebs for Crouse & macelli

Crouse is worth far more than the 11th pick and I also think it's pretty unlikely he would get traded for Byram, who I would say is also probably at least slightly less valuable than him. Utah would probably love to get Byram on the team but they'd be looking to do the same sort of deal they did for Durzi or McBain and the same kind of deal Buffalo would love for Crouse, picks and prospects.

But more importantly I don't think Utah wants to trade Crouse at all and it would take a bonafide upgrade to trade him. They definitely won't be trading him for picks or prospects.

He's on a team friendly deal, signed long term, is exactly the kind of player you want for the playoffs, and would probably produce a lot more on a team like Buffalo.

I think his value compared to what fans think is a lot higher. I can imagine there might also be some Utah fans who wouldn't take this deal because Crouse + 6th is insanely valuable, but personally I think this is one of the only ways they could acquire a legit #1D who is young enough to fit their rebuild. Losing Crouse hurts and wouldn't be easy to replace but gaining Power gives them a hugely improved D-core and allows them to play 1 of Durzi/Moser on the 2nd pair which would be fantastic for the team.

Crouse for 11 pick and krebs ?

 

[Dead Coyote]

11 pick, byram and krebs for Crouse & macelli

Crouse for 11 pick and krebs ?

Neither of these deals are anywhere close to good value, so no. Maccelli is a 60pt winger at 3m who's 23. Tacking on Byram to Krebs and 11 doesn't let you just add that to get both.

Like the last big trade was Hertl who got 2 1sts and was older than Crouse is, signed to a slightly more expensive deal than Crouse is, and is worse defensively and not as physical.

The last trade for an RFA of similar age to Crouse was PLD I think? Who got a hell of a package and is 1 year younger than Crouse is, and again less physical and defensively responsible, uh, not to mention his other potential issues Crouse doesn't have.

Mittelstadt got Byram straight up but up to that point had exactly 1 season where he was better than Crouse and is also a year younger.

I can't even really point to any trades that fit what trading Crouse at 26/27 would look like because outside of ROR I can't think of any players who had his combination of size, goalscoring and defense, and iirc ROR had a much worse contract than Crouse does, but I could be wrong about that. And ROR got a haul both times.

I think that's the kind of value you'd be looking at for Crouse alone. He routinely plays on the 3rd line and doesn't often see PP time, and I think you could expect a 20+ point bump playing on a team like Buffalo. Maccelli is also the only guy he's ever really had support from.

And Maccelli is 23yo (the same age as Krebs!) and is an excellent playmaker, I doubt there's any way you'd be able to pry him from Utah.

I don't think Utah would accept a primarily prospect trade for Crouse anyways. And Samuelsson, not Byram, would probably be the guy we'd be targeting anyways in a one for one. But I don't see the value being great there either and Crouse is the likely next captain so I don't see that happening.

Crouse + for a 1D or 1C are probably the only trades I could see actually making sense for Utah.

But you definitely aren't getting him and Maccelli for #11, a prospect who has never put it together, and a d-man with lots of potential, concussion history, who is yet another offensive D that Utah don't need at all- and while I think Byram is better than people think he is, that still doesn't mean he has value the same way. You'd be more likely to get Crouse alone for that. And honestly I still don't see that happening because it doesn't fit Utah's needs at all.

 

[freester]

I would love to get Crouse. Moving Power is not happening. Would Rosen and a 2024 2nd get it done?

 

[MOGlLNY]

I would love to get Crouse. Moving Power is not happening. Would Rosen and a 2024 2nd get it done?

Not even close

 

[elchud]

Sabres would be interested in Bjugstad or Hayton.

Krebs + Joker are available...

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

Why in the world would Buffalo do this?

 

[Fatass]

Sabres have had good players who, when traded, turn into great player on Cup winners. Isn’t trading Power likely following the same path?

 

[stokes84]

I find myself on the board less and less often. Maybe it’s how long the Sabres have been bad. Maybe it’s seeing people advocate for Peyton Krebs to be captain, and trade ideas like this. I don’t know.

 

[TommyDangles]

Crouse is worth far more than the 11th pick and I also think it's pretty unlikely he would get traded for Byram, who I would say is also probably at least slightly less valuable than him.

I think you're overvaluing him quite a bit. We've seen what guys similar to his playstyle get in a return and the 11th itself would be quite a lot.

Peak value for a guy like that would be Lucic w/ retention getting the 13th pick + Martin Jones. Lucic at that point had a 30 goal & 60+ point seasons under his belt in a lower scoring era. Much better than Crouse.

I get that it doesn't make sense that Utah would trade him, but that return would be far more than you'd actually get for him if he was moved.

 

[Heldig]

I think you're overvaluing him quite a bit. We've seen what guys similar to his playstyle get in a return and the 11th itself would be quite a lot.

Peak value for a guy like that would be Lucic w/ retention getting the 13th pick + Martin Jones. Lucic at that point had a 30 goal & 60+ point seasons under his belt in a lower scoring era. Much better than Crouse.

I get that it doesn't make sense that Utah would trade him, but that return would be far more than you'd actually get for him if he was moved.

Or the peak value is the Tanner Jeannot trade.

 

[TommyDangles]

Or the peak value is the Tanner Jeannot trade.

I don't think a future protected 1st & mid round picks would be peak value.

 

[Heldig]

I don't think a future protected 1st & mid round picks would be peak value.

It was a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th AND a depth roster player (Cal Foote).

 

[TommyDangles]

It was a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th AND a depth roster player (Cal Foote).

Which is far less than the 13th pick + Martin Jones

Cal was more of a bust. Not even a full time roster guy.

 

[Adam da bomb]

It was a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th AND a depth roster player (Cal Foote).

Which is worth less than the 11th pick depending on where that 1st is.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I think you're overvaluing him quite a bit. We've seen what guys similar to his playstyle get in a return and the 11th itself would be quite a lot.

Peak value for a guy like that would be Lucic w/ retention getting the 13th pick + Martin Jones. Lucic at that point had a 30 goal & 60+ point seasons under his belt in a lower scoring era. Much better than Crouse.

I get that it doesn't make sense that Utah would trade him, but that return would be far more than you'd actually get for him if he was moved.

Why hasn't he been traded yet then? Teams have reportedly offered firsts for him before.

It would have made a ton of sense to trade him 2 or 3 years ago at the start of the rebuild when we were tanking and he was still putting up good numbers. And yet he's still here, turning 27.

Lucic played with a much better cast than Crouse ever has, again Maccelli is the only support he's gotten with little to no PP time and Lucic played regularly with Bergeron, Krejci, Horton, Marchand etc who weren't as explosive offensively as they were later but were still far better players than Crouse has seen. Also when he was traded he had 1 year left on his deal and was a UFA afterwards. Which is completely different than Crouse who still has 3 years left at a cap hit that's almost 2m less than what Lucic was making at the time.

Also, Lucic is more productive, but he isn't a better player than Crouse. Crouse is a lot better defensively and makes a lot less boneheaded decisions than Lucic did.

It's a different league now than it was 9 years ago anyways and that only adds to Crouse's value as there's a lot less guys like him around the league. Jeannot is a far worse player and got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and Foote. Crouse should be worth far more than that.

Cap and term matter in this league, and Crouse has team friendly deals on both, I have no doubt that he would command more than everyone who just dismisses him as a 20g scorer bottom six forward.

In terms of value I definitely think 11 + Byram would be close but 11 + Krebs certainly isn't and Byram for Crouse doesn't fit Utah's needs as you mentioned. 11 + Krebs also doesn't fit their needs either for that matter. Any deal with a draft pick being the center piece doesn't fit Utah's needs.

Samuelsson with a possible plus for Crouse would be the most realistic deal but I still doubt it happens.

 

[DJN21]

Why hasn't he been traded yet then? Teams have reportedly offered firsts for him before.

It would have made a ton of sense to trade him 2 or 3 years ago at the start of the rebuild when we were tanking and he was still putting up good numbers. And yet he's still here, turning 27.

Lucic played with a much better cast than Crouse ever has, again Maccelli is the only support he's gotten with little to no PP time and Lucic played regularly with Bergeron, Krejci, Horton, Marchand etc who weren't as explosive offensively as they were later but were still far better players than Crouse has seen. Also when he was traded he had 1 year left on his deal and was a UFA afterwards. Which is completely different than Crouse who still has 3 years left at a cap hit that's almost 2m less than what Lucic was making at the time.

Also, Lucic is more productive, but he isn't a better player than Crouse. Crouse is a lot better defensively and makes a lot less boneheaded decisions than Lucic did.

It's a different league now than it was 9 years ago anyways and that only adds to Crouse's value as there's a lot less guys like him around the league. Jeannot is a far worse player and got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and Foote. Crouse should be worth far more than that.

Cap and term matter in this league, and Crouse has team friendly deals on both, I have no doubt that he would command more than everyone who just dismisses him as a 20g scorer bottom six forward.

In terms of value I definitely think 11 + Byram would be close but 11 + Krebs certainly isn't and Byram for Crouse doesn't fit Utah's needs as you mentioned. 11 + Krebs also doesn't fit their needs either for that matter. Any deal with a draft pick being the center piece doesn't fit Utah's needs.

Samuelsson with a possible plus for Crouse would be the most realistic deal but I still doubt it happens.

youd be wrong

 

[Dead Coyote]

youd be wrong

Thank you for your insightful response in this thread