Management UPDATE: Steve Staios GM and POHO, Dave Poulin Senior VP of Hockey Operations

[Golden_Jet]

Can anyone name consequences for keeping Dorion on as long as he did? The summer moves were all done, so there really wasn't much for the GM to do at that point other than very minor roster shuffling for a team beyond capped out.

And does anyone think the season was salvageable in hindsight with a sooner DJ firing? Korpisalo was still their starter plus the injuries and roster question marks. The season was over.

I would say the team was handcuffed by not getting the team until September 21, on the eve of main training camp. Rookie camp was already underway.

Main problem was any contact between sides had to go through the 3 person Melnyk estate trustee board, during summer.

I thought with the late start it would end up being a transition year, and would take 2 off seasons, possibly up to 3, to put their stamp on the team, with the salary cap flexibility they had.

I'm curious who would have been hired in September if they did "fire everybody". Also the one poster loves the Dorion era and I am surprised that now his critique is that Dorion and DJ weren't fired fast enough. Almost like it's bs.

That is odd.

 

[bicboi64]

And does anyone think the season was salvageable in hindsight with a sooner DJ firing? Korpisalo was still their starter plus the injuries and roster question marks. The season was over.

I think with DJ fired and Martin brought in earlier, we'd have 10-12 more points with the team playing more defensively responsible.

Brady Tkachuk went from defensive liability to not defensive liability under Martin. If Captain Tkachuk can keep up his defensive progression, he won't have any real holes in his game (aside form bad penalties).

Korpse still sinks us, but we're out of the basement and playing meaningful games while building good habits on ice.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I'm curious who would have been hired in September if they did "fire everybody". Also the one poster loves the Dorion era and I am surprised that now his critique is that Dorion and DJ weren't fired fast enough. Almost like it's bs.

Bowness interim GM until Staios appoints himself GM. What's the difference?

Edit: Also, who loved the Dorion era? Minus the 2017 run it's been nothing but disappointment for team results. Yes, there were some pieces added as a result of sucking and if this team is going to be good it'll be on the back of excellent drafting at the top of the first round. Other than that no one could say with a straight face that years of being out of the playoffs was something to love. But no one ever made that argument, did they? Just a ridiculous strawman for you to pummel into oblivion.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm curious who would have been hired in September if they did "fire everybody". Also the one poster loves the Dorion era and I am surprised that now his critique is that Dorion and DJ weren't fired fast enough. Almost like it's bs.

That's another aspect. I'm sure SS didn't want to immediately jump in to that seat or tie him to a coach, so it's almost certainly interim title promotions.

I would say the team was handcuffed by not getting the team until September 21, on the eve of main training camp. Rookie camp was already underway.

Main problem was any contact between sides had to go through the 3 person Melnyk estate trustee board, during summer.

I thought with the late start it would end up being a transition year, and would take 2 off seasons, possibly up to 3, to put their stamp on the team, with the salary cap flexibility they had.

Yes, it seems clear to me that it just drug on too long. I don't see much changing from immediate firings, but just my opinion.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Can't we all get along? We're here forever.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think with DJ fired and Martin brought in earlier, we'd have 10-12 more points with the team playing more defensively responsible.

Brady Tkachuk went from defensive liability to not defensive liability under Martin. If Captain Tkachuk can keep up his defensive progression, he won't have any real holes in his game (aside form bad penalties).

Korpse still sinks us, but we're out of the basement and playing meaningful games while building good habits on ice.

I might agree it was possible, and I have said not firing DJ sooner is the 1 valid criticism imo, potentially, but personally I still feel like it wouldn't have made that much difference to have changed the outlook on the season itself or be challenging for anything. I could never believe in a team with the Korpse as their starter, but a few extra points could have been doable.

 

[SENStastic]

First year will always be a transition year when a new ownership takes over. Takes a bit of time to evaluate key personnelle and positions and replace the bad apples, although it was obvious there needed to be a shakeup to a significant potion of the staff at all levels from the get go given what was publicly apparent already even prior to the sale.

Sleepy Staios is taking his sweet time but he won't be afforded as much of a leash from the fanbase, we've been restless for years and he needs to understand where we're at and meet us there, he might be new here and not understand the frustration we've endured the past decade but he has to catch on quick. So far his work hasn't inspired much confidence, so he needs to do some magic next 12months or people will be calling for his head sooner rather than later. I hope he understands that.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think with DJ fired and Martin brought in earlier, we'd have 10-12 more points with the team playing more defensively responsible.

Brady Tkachuk went from defensive liability to not defensive liability under Martin. If Captain Tkachuk can keep up his defensive progression, he won't have any real holes in his game (aside form bad penalties).

Korpse still sinks us, but we're out of the basement and playing meaningful games while building good habits on ice.

Or how about this team not taking a giant step back? It's not like making the playoffs was the only way to evaluate a coaching change. We could have been a team with anywhere from 85-90 points and felt like we were moving in the right direction. There would have been games worth watching. The team could have played under some real pressure.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Either way, he still fixed goaltending and I am forever grateful that I don't have to watch Korpisalo stink it up for our team this year. I don't know that I've ever hated a signing as much as that one.

 

[BankStreetParade]

First year will always be a transition year when a new ownership takes over. Takes a bit of time to evaluate key personnelle and positions and replace the bad apples, although it was obvious there needed to be a shakeup to a significant potion of the staff at all levels from the get go given what was publicly apparent already even prior to the sale.

Sleepy Staios is taking his sweet time but he won't be afforded as much of a leash from the fanbase, we've been restless for years and he needs to understand where we're at and meet us there, he might be new here and not understand the frustration we've endured the past decade but he has to catch on quick. So far his work hasn't inspired much confidence, so he needs to do some magic next 12months or people will be calling for his head sooner rather than later. I hope he understands that.

This is almost word for word what I believe.

It's not Andlauer and Staios' fault that they inherited this mess. Period. Nonetheless, they are the ones who are now responsible for cleaning it up and so far I haven't seen any sense of urgency in their operations. The fans of this team have signalled for years that they're tired of the losing and they need to find a way to strike a delicate balance between building for the longterm and getting results in the short term. Is it potentially unfair to them? Maybe. But that's pro sports.

 

[Loach]

Bowness interim GM until Staios appoints himself GM. What's the difference?

Edit: Also, who loved the Dorion era? Minus the 2017 run it's been nothing but disappointment for team results. Yes, there were some pieces added as a result of sucking and if this team is going to be good it'll be on the back of excellent drafting at the top of the first round. Other than that no one could say with a straight face that years of being out of the playoffs was something to love. But no one ever made that argument, did they? Just a ridiculous strawman for you to pummel into oblivion.

Why are you so touchy? I never mentioned you. Does it hit close to home or something?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Why are you so touchy? I never mentioned you. Does it hit close to home or something?

I had already quoted your post and expanded on it. Why did my response make you so defensive? Does getting called out for making strawman arguments hurt your feelings?

 

[Loach]

I had already quoted your post and expanded on it. Why did my response make you so defensive? Does getting called out for making strawman arguments hurt your feelings?

But that's the point really. Why did you respond to the post to begin with? It never metioned you. Now you're all flustered. There is nothing defensive about my posts. If anything you are being defensive. Please stick to posts that include you, unless there was something that you felt included you. If so, could you highlight which part it was and why you felt it was for you. Just to clarify.

 

[BankStreetParade]

But that's the point really. Why did you respond to the post to begin with? It never metioned you. Now you're all flustered. There is nothing defensive about my posts. If anything you are being defensive. Please stick to posts that include you, unless there was something that you felt included you. If so, could you highlight which part it was and why you felt it was for you. Just to clarify.

Sure, point me to the forum rules that say you can't respond to posts unless directly addressed and I'll gladly abide. Eagerly awaiting your response!

 

[Loach]

Sure, point me to the forum rules that say you can't respond to posts unless directly addressed and I'll gladly abide. Eagerly awaiting your response!

So you're not going to highlight the part that you felt was for you. Got it.

 

[bert]

First year will always be a transition year when a new ownership takes over. Takes a bit of time to evaluate key personnelle and positions and replace the bad apples, although it was obvious there needed to be a shakeup to a significant potion of the staff at all levels from the get go given what was publicly apparent already even prior to the sale.

Sleepy Staios is taking his sweet time but he won't be afforded as much of a leash from the fanbase, we've been restless for years and he needs to understand where we're at and meet us there, he might be new here and not understand the frustration we've endured the past decade but he has to catch on quick. So far his work hasn't inspired much confidence, so he needs to do some magic next 12months or people will be calling for his head sooner rather than later. I hope he understands that.

He's turned over most of the organization outside of the amateur scouts and brought in 10 new players in less than a year with one offseason. He has added to the analytics, and nutrition and training. Added a vice president of hockey operations, a new pro head scout, a new coaching staff in both Belleville and Ottawa. Has targeted specific players to build an identity and brought in a vezina winning goalie. In 11.5 months after inheriting a team that was over the cap.

If that's sleepy then what would awake look like?

 

[SENStastic]

He's turned over most of the organization outside of the amateur scouts and brought in 10 new players in less than a year with one offseason. He has added to the analytics, and nutrition and training. Added a vice president of hockey operations, a new pro head scout, a new coaching staff in both Belleville and Ottawa. Has targeted specific players to build an identity and brought in a vezina winning goalie. In 11.5 months after inheriting a team that was over the cap.

If that's sleepy then what would awake look like?

You're seemingly evaluating his performance based on the quantity of moves he's made instead of the quality. If that's the case, then every GM in the league has always done an amazing job, including Dorion. He hasn't done anything that inspires confidence in the long term, or even short term success of the organization aside from the Ullmark trade, and that's temporary as of now. You're trying too hard to cover for him, he's been underwhelming in everything he's done so far, and that's putting it generously. I don't see this team as being a true cup contender anytime soon based on his decisions the past year, and I see no urgency in getting us there either. It's been a disappointment to see but I'll give him one more year before taking out the pitch forks.

 

[Wondercarrot]

You're seemingly evaluating his performance based on the quantity of moves he's made instead of the quality. If that's the case, then every GM in the league has always done an amazing job, including Dorion. He hasn't done anything that inspires confidence in the long term, or even short term success of the organization aside from the Ullmark trade, and that's temporary as of now. You're trying too hard to cover for him, he's been underwhelming in everything he's done so far, and that's putting it generously. I don't see this team as being a true cup contender anytime soon based on his decisions the past year, and I see no urgency in getting us there either. It's been a disappointment to see but I'll give him one more year before taking out the pitch forks.

You’re out to lunch.
It’s hard to really imagine what more he could have done without making desperate stupid gambles.
He took over the team literally as the season began, you need to then take time to evaluate what you’ve got in a meaningful way.
He addressed what seemed almost impossible by both dumping Korpisalo and getting a Verona winning top 10 goalie in the league.
He changed the entire front office, management, and coach.
He brought in experienced vets who play with an edge who have won cups, and totally remade the bottom 6
He addressed the RS top 4 partner for Chabot.

He did all this despite have no cap room, no picks or prospects worth anything, and no players of value to trade. (Outside of Chychrun who played like such trash NO ONE wanted to pay anything for him.

He’s is handcuffed salary wise by Norris, but other than something there wtf else do you think he should have done exactly?

 

[Icelevel]

He's turned over most of the organization outside of the amateur scouts and brought in 10 new players in less than a year with one offseason. He has added to the analytics, and nutrition and training. Added a vice president of hockey operations, a new pro head scout, a new coaching staff in both Belleville and Ottawa. Has targeted specific players to build an identity and brought in a vezina winning goalie. In 11.5 months after inheriting a team that was over the cap.

If that's sleepy then what would awake look like?

It’s really extremely impressive what he’s been able to get done apparently all while his wife was diagnosed/getting treatment for cancer(?)
It’s not just that he made a bunch of moves but that each one involves bringing in a quality person. He’s not just building a roster he’s building an organization.
We were left in the hands of absolute clowns. Everyone should be grateful we’ve got real optimism ahead.

 

[BankStreetParade]

So you're not going to highlight the part that you felt was for you. Got it.

I never said it was meant for me. I told you I responded to your post and then expanded on another part of it in an edit. You know, sometimes people can find a post objectionable whether it refers to them or not.

Anyway please reference the forum rules that disqualify people from responding to posts unless directly referenced. I'd hate to be a rule breaker.

 

[Loach]

I never said it was meant for me. I told you I responded to your post and then expanded on another part of it in an edit. You know, sometimes people can find a post objectionable whether it refers to them or not.

Anyway please reference the forum rules that disqualify people from responding to posts unless directly referenced. I'd hate to be a rule breaker.

What did you find objectionable then? Is that better for you? Stop trying to change the subject. Why was it objectionable to you? Am I badgering the witness?

 

[SENStastic]

You’re out to lunch.
It’s hard to really imagine what more he could have done without making desperate stupid gambles.
He took over the team literally as the season began, you need to then take time to evaluate what you’ve got in a meaningful way.
He addressed what seemed almost impossible by both dumping Korpisalo and getting a Verona winning top 10 goalie in the league.
He changed the entire front office, management, and coach.
He brought in experienced vets who play with an edge who have won cups, and totally remade the bottom 6
He addressed the RS top 4 partner for Chabot.

He did all this despite have no cap room, no picks or prospects worth anything, and no players of value to trade. (Outside of Chychrun who played like such trash NO ONE wanted to pay anything for him.

He’s is handcuffed salary wise by Norris, but other than something there wtf else do you think he should have done exactly?

Naw, im out to dinner actually. Lol, same old points from the exact same arguments from the same crowd all summer long, its like this is their job or something. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Time to judge what all these glorious moves have done to the teams progress now, but I'm not expecting much, no matter how much you pump his tires.

 

[bert]

You're seemingly evaluating his performance based on the quantity of moves he's made instead of the quality. If that's the case, then every GM in the league has always done an amazing job, including Dorion. He hasn't done anything that inspires confidence in the long term, or even short term success of the organization aside from the Ullmark trade, and that's temporary as of now. You're trying too hard to cover for him, he's been underwhelming in everything he's done so far, and that's putting it generously. I don't see this team as being a true cup contender anytime soon based on his decisions the past year, and I see no urgency in getting us there either. It's been a disappointment to see but I'll give him one more year before taking out the pitch forks.

See that's where we disagree and that's fine. There's more than one layer to look at. First of all it's the teams cap flexibility and it's assets. He inherited a team above the cap with a bottom 5 prospect pool and limited amount of disposable picks. A grenade of a goaltender on top of that. In a market that is not desirable from a tax, culture and winning standpoint. That's not an easy situation. Instead of diving in and making moves without evaluating what they have on a personal level. He took his time and removed the most inconsistent players on the team.

His evaluation of the team is similar to how i look at it. They are easy to play against, they give up the blue line easier than any team in the league and they give up easy goals once teams are in the zone. Lots of tap ins, loose sticks etc. They also lack veteran leadership and smart versatile plays with a high hockey IQ. They didn't have an identity. They are skilled fast inconsistent team.

What they do have is Unicorn type of captain. Who plays the game very hard. Staios decided to build a team around Brady. I think that's a good plan. With limited resources they targeted players with experience, versatility and a snarl/pest in their game. So he attempted to address the teams weaknesses while building an identity around the captain. He also picked a coach that was a rat and believes in heavy hockey. Everything was done with a plan and purpose. Something we haven't seen in a long time. I don't think the moves were flawless by any means but I do think it was the right idea.

Instead of simply trying to accumulate talent even if it was redundant with the roster make up like Debrincat and Chychrun they have targeted players to build an actual hockey team.

This is the first time I have been hopeful about a season in a long time. I like the way they are built I hope it comes together. There's more leadership and veteran winners than we have had in a decade. That should help insulate the young talent and let them grow and play to the best of their abilities.

 

[jake1]

In a fully staffed, well-run organization of most kinds, you can turn over the top guys and the big ocean freighter will continue to cruise along, with all the little people doing their jobs as usual. By most accounts, this thing was held together with chicken wire and duct tape when they took over. You just cannot responsibly fire a lot of folks until you're confident the skeleton staff will be able to keep it afloat.

 

[BankStreetParade]

What did you find objectionable then? Is that better for you? Stop trying to change the subject. Why was it objectionable to you? Am I badgering the witness?

I'm pretty sure my response was pretty clear for why it was objectionable.

To be clear, it is your right to make ridiculous and patently false statements in an effort to make yourself feel superior to whoever that one poster happens to be. I'm not entirely sure why you got so defensive about getting called out for using strawman arguments. You knew you what you were doing so you had to expect someone would say something, whether it was this random poster you had in mind or someone else.

Anyway, now that I've answered the same question multiple times, I'd love an answer to mine.

Please stick to posts that include you

Where in the forum rules does it say you can't respond to someone unless directly addressed?