Tyson Barrie

[Ivan13]

Right now, Barrie’s FMV is somewhat subjective, but it seems a lot of people on here do want to overpay Barrie more than FMV.

Additionally, I think you’re failing to appreciate a significant argument here as to why we shouldn’t even give Barrie FMV - which is his worth to us.

Barrie is in a somewhat unique situation here, primarily as a result of Makar/Girard’s emergence. Regardless of how good he HAS been, his worth to us as a team is less $$ than what he’s worth to other teams that need a PPQB and who have no other way to generate offense from the back end.

Regarding Girard, no Girard is not better than Barrie right now (at least offensively), but we expect great things out of him. Throw in the fact that he’s 21 while Tyson is about to be 28, and the fact that Girard costs us peanuts for the next 2 years, and his next contract probably won’t be near the 8x8 that Barrie is currently seeking. So, Girard’s trade value is wayyy higher right now than Tyson’s value.

So now you know what Barrie is asking for?

 

[Gatorbait19]

Which has decreased noticeably during the last two years already and will continue to do so.

I frankly don’t know whether it has or hasn’t over the last 2 years, but if it has, then there’s a 0% chance we should re-sign him.

What I do know though is that his speed/acceleration will only get worse from here on out. That contract will become a black hole for somebody sooner rather than later when he can’t generate offense using his speed.

 

[Gatorbait19]

So now you know what Barrie is asking for?

Do you really not have any clue as to what he’s looking for?

I think we’re all pretty sure of the ballpark he wants. It’s likely somewhere between a lower limit of $7m x 5 years and upper limit of $9m x 8 years.

 

[Foxtail]

Who wants to overpay Barrie? He should get market value for a player of his stature. And to put Girard over Barrie boggles the mind. He has quite a long way to becoming as good as Tyson is.

 

[Foxtail]

I frankly don’t know whether it has or hasn’t over the last 2 years, but if it has, then there’s a 0% chance we should re-sign him.

What I do know though is that his speed/acceleration will only get worse from here on out. That contract will become a black hole for somebody sooner rather than later when he can’t generate offense using his speed.

Yeah Barrie doesn't have speed or acceleration now

 

[Patagonia]

It's like this guy wants to remain in a perpetual rebuild lol.

It's been repeated on multiple occasions, moving Barrie does not involve perpetually rebuilding. This is out of necessity which is no different than ROR and Duchene.

AVs plan to build organically, but they need to move players if they no longer fit in their business model. His projected salary demands and expecting to be paid 1D money, but settle into a 2D role is a poor distribution of financial resources. Expansion draft is just another complication.

I assume Barrie could realize a low 1st + prospects (2). This would be enough to grab Knight near the bottom of the round and prospects for next season. This clears the path for Makar and Girard settling into the PP role. Monies saved would be better used to pay for Hayes to fill a 2C role until Turcotte is ready.

So the future by trading Barrie would result in:

• Hayes (paid from Barrie's salary)
• 2019 - 1st (possibly Knight)
• Prospects (2) - Depth Roles or Traded
• Turcotte (can stay in College 1 to 2 years)
• Makar/Girard (greater TOI and improved team defence)

The impact of moving Barrie would be a huge step forward directly and indirectly. Not only is the AVs adding more depth players, but expanding the future opportunities of the players at a cheaper cost.

This is not a rebuild, but a huge opportunity to advance the team forward.

 

[xbestboybandever]

You seem to misunderstand. Everyone here is free to criticize another one’s opinion. Everyone is free to come into this thread and say what they think about the thread’s topic. Feel free to put me on the ignore list, I certainly won’t begrudge it, quite the contrary. As for my stance on Tyson’s last contract, I sure was proven wrong, wasn’t I? It would really suck he was paid what he was worth back then, and if we had a 55+ D signed for what I argued back then. Same goes for Radar.

Maybe one day this franchise decides to keep their stars and build a winner instead of trading them for magic beans.

This is how your arguments continually go. The last contract you were screaming to the rafters about how Sakic wasn't doing his job. Sakic signed Barrie to a fair contract that keeps him within the budget now. The Barrie that signed the contract then, is the same one now. He can provide great offense (Not elite) from the back end and provides adequate (at best) defense. His agents argued for number 1 money back then because of his point totals and the organization did not pay him that.

As for O'Reilly. If the FO had caved and paid O'Reilly the 8M he wanted, Mack's contract wouldn't be such a steal (which I distinctly remember you criticizing) and would prove to be factoring (pun intended) into Rantanen's upcoming deal as well.

You come into a thread to complain about its existence all the while spewing how much more you know about all of the posters in here that try to have a conversation about moving on from Barrie. I don't want to block your posts, I just wanted to point out the irony that exists.

"I hate this thread" while posting in the same thread. Bravo.

Oh and for what it's worth, a 20 year old Girard is not nearly as far away from a 27 year old Barrie as you may think.

 

[The Abusement Park]

This is how your arguments continually go. The last contract you were screaming to the rafters about how Sakic wasn't doing his job. Sakic signed Barrie to a fair contract that keeps him within the budget now. The Barrie that signed the contract then, is the same one now. He can provide great offense (Not elite) from the back end and provides adequate (at best) defense. His agents argued for number 1 money back then because of his point totals and the organization did not pay him that.

Barrie actually provides elite offense from the backend. He’s an elite point producer for a defender and provides average-ish defense.

Barrie’s biggest issue is consistency defensively. Some games/shifts he plays incredibly defensively and makes great play after great play. Then there are some games/shifts where he looks brain dead, I don’t think many people will argue that. I think he averages out to about an average defender that provides elite offense and will always be a high event player due to his play style.

 

[dahrougem2]

It's been repeated on multiple occasions, moving Barrie does not involve perpetually rebuilding. This is out of necessity which is no different than ROR and Duchene.

AVs plan to build organically, but they need to move players if they no longer fit in their business model. His projected salary demands and expecting to be paid 1D money, but settle into a 2D role is a poor distribution of financial resources. Expansion draft is just another complication.

I assume Barrie could realize a low 1st + prospects (2). This would be enough to grab Knight near the bottom of the round and prospects for next season. This clears the path for Makar and Girard settling into the PP role. Monies saved would be better used to pay for Hayes to fill a 2C role until Turcotte is ready.

So the future by trading Barrie would result in:

• Hayes (paid from Barrie's salary)
• 2019 - 1st (possibly Knight)
• Prospects (2) - Depth Roles or Traded
• Turcotte (can stay in College 1 to 2 years)
• Makar/Girard (greater TOI and improved team defence)

The impact of moving Barrie would be a huge step forward directly and indirectly. Not only is the AVs adding more depth players, but expanding the future opportunities of the players at a cheaper cost.

This is not a rebuild, but a huge opportunity to advance the team forward.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen on this board.

1) You don't know Tyson Barrie's "projected salary demands". You can throw out 8.5-9+ million all you want, you have no basis to make that claim just as I can easily say "well, Barrie will easily demand only 6 million per year, he loves it here".

2) If you're trading Tyson Barrie for a low 1st and two depth prospects, do you even want to attempt to win?

3) You realize how much cap space this team has, yes? Tyson Barrie doesn't need to be moved in order to make room for Kevin Hayes

4) Where the **** are you getting Turcotte from in any potential Barrie situation? Whoever we pick at #4 has absolutely nothing to do with Tyson Barrie, so I don't know why you even bother bringing that up.

5) Makar/Girard greater TOI? Who are you worried about taking their TOI? Tyson Barrie? Those kids are going to come in here and ensure players like Erik Johnson, Ian Cole, and Patrik Nemeth have their minutes limited to more defensive/PK roles, while Makar/Girard/Barrie thrive in all other situations.

Like I just don't get it. It's clear to me from the posts you make that you have no interest in winning and simply want to keep moving players to get younger.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Barrie actually provides elite offense from the backend. He’s an elite point producer for a defender and provides average-ish defense.

Barrie’s biggest issue is consistency defensively. Some games/shifts he plays incredibly defensively and makes great play after great play. Then there are some games/shifts where he looks brain dead, I don’t think many people will argue that. I think he averages out to about an average defender that provides elite offense and will always be a high event player due to his play style.

You and I will have different opinions over the term elite.

Barrie has never finished in the top-5 and I think falls right into the category right behind all of the Elite guys (Karlsson, Burns, Hedman). It's not a knock, just my opinion and how I would define elite vs very good.

As far as defense go, average and adequate are about the same. His defense leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[The Abusement Park]

You and I will have different opinions over the term elite.

Barrie has never finished in the top-5 and I think falls right into the category right behind all of the Elite guys (Karlsson, Burns, Hedman). It's not a knock, just my opinion and how I would define elite vs very good.

As far as defense go, average and adequate are about the same. His defense leaves a lot to be desired.

He’s 9th in ES scoring for dmen since he entered the league. That’s elite.

 

[xbestboybandever]

He’s 9th in ES scoring for dmen since he entered the league. That’s elite.

Again, I said we will have different views on the term elite. I am aware that he is top-10, for me that is the very good tier, not elite. After watching Brent Burns terrorize this team, that is what an elite offensive defenseman looks like.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Again, I said we will have different views on the term elite. I am aware that he is top-10, for me that is the very good tier, not elite. After watching Brent Burns terrorize this team, that is what an elite offensive defenseman looks like.

If being the 9th best point producer from the backend in the entire world isn’t elite than I don’t know what to tell you. Your bar is really really high.

 

[xbestboybandever]

If being the 9th best point producer from the backend in the entire world isn’t elite than I don’t know what to tell you. Your bar is really really high.

Having a high bar...the definition of elite...

 

[The Abusement Park]

Which is the definition of elite...

I think being top 10 at something makes you elite...

 

[xbestboybandever]

I think being top 10 at something makes you elite...

Which comes back to my point that you and I have different opinions as to the meaning of elite.

Can you please explain to me why me saying he is very good vs elite is a slight against him?

 

[Avs71]

Barrie really won me over with his play down the stretch, and the playoffs. Sure, he got out muscled for some goals, but the guy was so damn clutch when the team needed a hero in the worst way.

The guy loves team. The Team loves guy. This shouldn’t even be a topic anymore. I used to be in the trade Barrie camp, but the situation has evolved and the team should not be subtracting elite skill in any position.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm sorry, but this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen on this board.

1) You don't know Tyson Barrie's "projected salary demands". You can throw out 8.5-9+ million all you want, you have no basis to make that claim just as I can easily say "well, Barrie will easily demand only 6 million per year, he loves it here".

2) If you're trading Tyson Barrie for a low 1st and two depth prospects, do you even want to attempt to win?

3) You realize how much cap space this team has, yes? Tyson Barrie doesn't need to be moved in order to make room for Kevin Hayes

4) Where the **** are you getting Turcotte from in any potential Barrie situation? Whoever we pick at #4 has absolutely nothing to do with Tyson Barrie, so I don't know why you even bother bringing that up.

5) Makar/Girard greater TOI? Who are you worried about taking their TOI? Tyson Barrie? Those kids are going to come in here and ensure players like Erik Johnson, Ian Cole, and Patrik Nemeth have their minutes limited to more defensive/PK roles, while Makar/Girard/Barrie thrive in all other situations.

Like I just don't get it. It's clear to me from the posts you make that you have no interest in winning and simply want to keep moving players to get younger.

There is a reason Barrie is the most polarizing player on the team. Why is this thread nearly at 200 posts @ 8 pages? He is replaceable and the options are likely close or better than keeping him.

It has nothing against winning, it’s making the tough decision when necessary. I didn’t want to lose ROR or Duchene, but given the situation making the move was necessary. Barrie earning more than $7M would be too much. Sakic’s somber response when asked about Barrie, seems to indicate negotiations are not going well. You might disagree withmy response or the many others here, but it’s a greater chance he’s gone then staying.

 

[Gatorbait19]

If being the 9th best point producer from the backend in the entire world isn’t elite than I don’t know what to tell you. Your bar is really really high.

But the question isn’t “how many 5v5 points has he had in the last 7 years” but instead “how many will he have in the next 9 years?”

With Barrie about to lose a step (if he hasn’t already), I wouldn’t expect him to match that pace moving forward, irrespective of Makar/Girard. Throw them into the mix and it’s almost assured Barrie won’t repeat his past success.

His offensive abilities will only go down from here and his defensive prowess won’t be getting any better.

 

[Patagonia]

But the question isn’t “how many 5v5 points has he had in the last 7 years” but instead “how many will he have in the next 9 years?”

With Barrie about to lose a step (if he hasn’t already), I wouldn’t expect him to match that pace moving forward, irrespective of Makar/Girard. Throw them into the mix and it’s almost assured Barrie won’t repeat his past success.

His offensive abilities will only go down from here and his defensive prowess won’t be getting any better.

Barrie has been among the perennial team leaders with a terrible negative +/- ratings.

I understand this could be a meaningless stat which varies by year, but you can’t lead the team every season unless there is something wrong.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Barrie has been among the perennial team leaders with negative +/- ratings.

A solid -59 for his career, with only 2 positive +/- seasons (2013-14 and 14-15).

Sure, some of his really bad years came when we were really bad, but he still hasn’t had a positive +/- despite playing with MacK all the time.

Edited - I forgot PK doesn’t count +/-

 

[dahrougem2]

There is a reason Barrie is the most polarizing player on the team. Why is this thread nearly at 200 posts @ 8 pages? He is replaceable and the options are likely close or better than keeping him.

It has nothing against winning, it’s making the tough decision when necessary. I didn’t want to lose ROR or Duchene, but given the situation making the move was necessary. Barrie earning more than $7M would be too much. Sakic’s somber response when asked about Barrie, seems to indicate negotiations are not going well. You might disagree withmy response or the many others here, but it’s a greater chance he’s gone then staying.

Making those moves was necessary? Matt Duchene asked for a trade.

You think this team couldn't use Ryan O'Reilly right now? I'd undo that trade a million times over if I could. Making that move was not necessary. It's just you trying to justify it like you continuously try to justify trading Tyson Barrie.

You've proven time and time again that you have zero interest in actually putting a winning roster on the ice, and just want to trade players for the sake of getting younger all the time.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Making those moves was necessary? Matt Duchene asked for a trade.

You think this team couldn't use Ryan O'Reilly right now? I'd undo that trade a million times over if I could. Making that move was not necessary. It's just you trying to justify it like you continuously try to justify trading Tyson Barrie.

You've proven time and time again that you have zero interest in actually putting a winning roster on the ice, and just want to trade players for the sake of getting younger all the time.

Trades are fun though.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Making those moves was necessary? Matt Duchene asked for a trade.

You think this team couldn't use Ryan O'Reilly right now? I'd undo that trade a million times over if I could. Making that move was not necessary. It's just you trying to justify it like you continuously try to justify trading Tyson Barrie.

You've proven time and time again that you have zero interest in actually putting a winning roster on the ice, and just want to trade players for the sake of getting younger all the time.

And we are back to this...

You bring up Duchene asking to be moved...

When was the last time an offer sheet was signed? Oh yeah! Ryan O'Reilly. Making that move became necessary when he made the decision to sign a two year deal to play hockey in Russia. Then signed an offer sheet that was guaranteed to get him to UFA as fast as possible. Up until that contract dispute, no one wanted O'Reilly gone, he forced his way out.

Yes, O'Reilly on this team would be great. Again, I ask... The Avs sign O'Reilly for 8M a season, because that's what he wanted to stay here. Then when Mackinnon's contract comes up his agents are going to use the O'Reilly deal as the baseline. Look at the issue that Toronto is having with Marner right now. That is exactly why the Avs tried to maintain an internal cap on their young players. They knew by giving huge raises to one player would have a trickle down effect on the other players moving forward.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Tell me one thing, who is going to create the same offense from defense If we trade Barrie? Makar? The guy who has played few games in NHL. Girard is not on the same level at all. Johnson? Yep.. No one. You think it's easy to replace Barrie but it's not. We will be all crying for offensive defenseman If we trade him. He is elite in his role.

Keeping Barrie is crucial. We can always trade him later if Makar and Girard both breakthrough but before that, nope.

Not to mention Best friend of MacK