Honestly this thread should be renamed "OwenNolan argue with everyone about Barrie" because that's what it is, rather than the reasonable, mature discussion about Barrie that I think this board needs. But I don't think it should be closed - I think it should be salvaged. Because honestly the people insulting OwenNolan and complaining that the thread should be closed - those people are exactly what makes Barrie discussions so unbearable.
Anyway, in an attempt to steer this conversation into rational territory again, I read the whole thing. Here to the best of my ability, are the arguments for and against trading Barrie (and my thoughts on them)
Trade Barrie
· He’ll be 35 in 7 years
Very good point. He's likely to decline before the end of his next deal, and this should be a factor is deciding whether to sign or trade him.
· Who plays the PK if we have Barrie, Girard and Makar on the roster?
Girard or Makar, but the other three defensemen would probably get the vast majority of PK time. I don't think this is a valid argument for trading Barrie.
· His cap space could be spent on scoring
Agreed.
· We fill a need at forward by trading him
Agreed.
· The defense is too small with him on it
This point has been thoroughly refuted in the rest of the thread. He and Girard are the only legitimately small defensemen on the roster, and Girard has shown signs of being able to compensate for his size and still be physical.
· He’ll likely make #1 D money without being a #1 D
Probably the best argument for trading him, if true.
· He’s not good defensively
Another excellent reason to trade him.
· He’s inconsistent
Not a huge issue IMO, but a valid point.
· His role may be taken soon by Makar and/or Girard
Another good point. You could slot Makar into his role right now and probably only have a small drop in production, if any. You could do the same with Girard and have a larger drop, but better defensive ability to balance it out.
· If we trade EJ, who takes over his role?
People suggest trading EJ instead, but Ian Cole, Zadorov and Nemeth are less ideal replacements for EJ in my mind than Girard and Makar are for Barrie.
· He is likely overvalued by at least one NHL GM
Another good argument
· He’s only a powerplay specialist
He's also excellent offensively at 5 on 5 when he's on his game. Not a good point.
· We have enough good defensemen to make a good top 4 without him
Another good point. Some combo of Makar, Girard, EJ, Cole and Zadorov makes a very solid top 4 with enough puck movers and defensive ability.
Keep Barrie
· All that offense from the backend would be dominant
Barrie, Makar and Girard can't all play at once. I'd rather give Makar and Girard 20+ minutes of prime offensive minutes than have to split that time with Barrie.
· Subtracting Barrie makes us worse
This is the dumbest argument for keeping him, as if we traded him it would presumably be for equal value at least.
· We can trade him later
He's only getting older, and his value might drop if Makar/Girard steals some of his offensive minutes.
· He’s elite offensively
The best reason to keep him. He has skills from the backend very few players in the league can match. We'd definitely miss his offensive skills if we trade him.
· Makar/Girard aren’t currently ready to take over his role
They wouldn't need to completely replace him if we were also getting scoring from whoever we got in the Barrie trade.
· Makar isn’t small
This is true, and he's likely going to get bigger.
· EJ should be moved instead
He has presumably less value as he is older and doesn't put up the sexy offensive numbers Barrie does. It's also less obvious how we can replace his role as shutdown defenseman/PK specialist/minute eater. He should also still be valuable as his role diminishes as he can become a bottom pair PK guy quite easily. Barrie with a diminished role becomes almost useless.
· Trading Barrie for a forward makes no difference in terms of scoring
This is just wrong. If we trade Barrie for a forward the team overall will likely score just as many goals, but will probably let in fewer as forwards are usually less responsibly for defending, and the guy we get for Barrie might actually be better defensively than him.
