Player Discussion Tyler Myers thread

[4Twenty]

Interesting that he's got the same amount of points as Ben Hutton.

 

[MS]

Am I going to have to come back and multi-quote these again in a couple years when Myers is unanimously accepted as being as bad as Gudbranson?

I compared Gudbranson to being a right handed Sbisa when we first acquired him and I was called out with almost these exact same posts. I referred to Gudbranson as a bottom pair defenseman, and you could probably copy and paste some of these words from some of these very same posters.

I don't like using analytics with such small sample sizes, but comparing Gudbranson to Myers this year in terms of WAR, Gudbranson has been a replacement level player with a 0.1 WAR, while Myers has been sub-replacement level with a -0.9 WAR. Gudbranson has a 0.6 Goals Above Replacement, while Myers is at -5.3 Goals Above Replacement. In fact, Myers has the worst WAR and GAR in the league.

In terms of point production, okay, Gudbranson trails Myers by 3 points, I'll give you that. Is it really material though when we're talking about 1 point vs. 4?

To suggest Myers has even been a fringe second pairing guy this season is just flat out wrong.

But okay, you don't like the comparison to Gudbranson. Fine. How about we go with a right handed, taller version of Ben Hutton? Seems quite comparable based on the limited sample this season.

My assessment isn't extreme, nor does it have anything to do with Benning. Tyler Myers simply isn't very good, and hasn't been good at all this year.

A taller version of Ben Hutton is a completely different level of player from Erik Gudbranson, and wouldn't be inaccurate.

Gudbranson is complete garbage.

Myers is a #4-5 guy being played in a top-pairing shutdown role which is going to sink his analytics. If he was playing in Jamie Benn's role, his numbers would look completely different.

And if you're asking if Myers will be Gudbranson-level by year 4-5 deal, absolutely. It would probably be surprising if he wasn't.

 

[MS]

That 8x8 rumour on Tyson Barrie is absolutely terrifying. Jesus Christ.

 

[timw33]

That 8x8 rumour on Tyson Barrie is absolutely terrifying. Jesus Christ.

That recent tidbit about how the Canucks might be intentionally leaking higher numbers (7 year 49MM for Myers) so that they look better when it's less than that is also extremely funny if true. They would be that insecure about their ability to sign players to good contracts.

 

[vancityluongo]

That recent tidbit about how the Canucks might be intentionally leaking higher numbers (7 year 49MM for Myers) so that they look better when it's less than that is also extremely funny if true. They would be that insecure about their ability to sign players to good contracts.

It's less funny (and more just straight up sad) that it actually works. Just look at the number of people who claimed Myers was signed to a bargain lol.

 

[timw33]

It's less funny (and more just straight up sad) that it actually works. Just look at the number of people who claimed Myers was signed to a bargain lol.

I remember the calls that Ferland was going to get like $6MM in free agency too lol.

 

[Jyrki21]

I understand this. Why is James making this statement as if it is a matter of fact?

James has built up a following as a radio scribe. There's no motivation for him to suggest that the Canucks have intentionally leaking overstated contract amounts before signing players to lower numbers.

We joked about the team doing that this summer, but I don't think they're really self-aware enough to do it for real. Put another way, if they are aware it's a dumb contract, why are they doing it?

But make no mistake, like @vancityluongo says, the effect does seem to work. Twitter reaction after the signing did seem somewhat relieved and more positive as a result, and I remarked this at the time:

 

[Guffman]

Just checking in to see how some of our ex-Jets are doing. First page read was very promising but the subsequent pages have turned really negative on him.

1 point in his past 17 games? YIKES!

 

[MS]

Just checking in to see how some of our ex-Jets are doing. First page read was very promising but the subsequent pages have turned really negative on him.

1 point in his past 17 games? YIKES!

He started very well in his first 10 games but his pairing with Edler has crashed and burned in his last dozen (1 point in his last 17, -10 in his last 12 games). And his skating has fallen off noticeably.

Were quick starts any sort of pattern in Winnipeg for him?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I suggested since Edler-Myers pairing has been shit this month , why not put our second most mobile D Tyler Myers with Hughes, who is our most mobile D.

Then Travis Green went on and paired Myers with our least mobile D in Benn.

Good good coaching

 

[Addison Rae]

Yeah he was excellent to start the season and looked like a player that can play in tough minutes, but he's completely fallen off a cliff and looks like that #4/5 defender many of us said he was.

This player is not going to age well and it's going to be another disastrous Jim Benning signing.

 

[Guffman]

He started very well in his first 10 games but his pairing with Edler has crashed and burned in his last dozen (1 point in his last 17, -10 in his last 12 games). And his skating has fallen off noticeably.

Were quick starts any sort of pattern in Winnipeg for him?

No, not that I recall.

He’s a real gamer come playoff time but not so much in the regular season. Class guy but very sorry you took on that contract.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

The other way to look at Myers play last night is, everyone who plays with Benn looks like ass. Stecher, and now Myers.

I suggested since Edler-Myers pairing has been **** this month , why not put our second most mobile D Tyler Myers with Hughes, who is our most mobile D.

Then Travis Green went on and paired Myers with our least mobile D in Benn.

Good good coaching

Yeah. I've felt since the off-season that the optimal lineup for the Canucks involved Hughes and Myers on an offensively-oriented pairing.

 

[4Twenty]

The other way to look at Myers play last night is, everyone who plays with Benn looks like ass. Stecher, and now Benn.



Yeah. I've felt since the off-season that the optimal lineup for the Canucks involved Hughes and Myers on an offensively-oriented pairing.

It's too bad Travis disagrees and has been steadily giving Benn more and more ice time.

 

[timw33]

No, not that I recall.

He’s a real gamer come playoff time but not so much in the regular season. Class guy but very sorry you took on that contract.

We seem to load up on guys who theoretically would be great for the playoffs but can't even get close to making them in the first place.

 

[hcg]

A taller version of Ben Hutton is a completely different level of player from Erik Gudbranson, and wouldn't be inaccurate.

Gudbranson is complete garbage.

Myers is a #4-5 guy being played in a top-pairing shutdown role which is going to sink his analytics. If he was playing in Jamie Benn's role, his numbers would look completely different.

And if you're asking if Myers will be Gudbranson-level by year 4-5 deal, absolutely. It would probably be surprising if he wasn't.

Hopefully he doesn't sink that far.

If he's a 6 million dollar bottom pairing dman, but he's still nhl level, that's not crippling. hopefully.

Unfortunately he's also got a bonus laden buyout proof contract. sigh.

 

[RandV]

I remember the calls that Ferland was going to get like $6MM in free agency too lol.

I'd say what happened is the Canucks only had so much cap space to spend and so did everyone else so a bunch of UFA prices came down last summer from previous years. Like you started with Jeff Skinner getting $9x8 before July 1st and ended with Jake Gardiner settling for $4x4. Player's can't make bank if no team has cap room to spend.

 

[bandwagonesque]

We joked about the team doing that this summer, but I don't think they're really self-aware enough to do it for real. Put another way, if they are aware it's a dumb contract, why are they doing it?

But make no mistake, like @vancityluongo says, the effect does seem to work. Twitter reaction after the signing did seem somewhat relieved and more positive as a result, and I remarked this at the time:

You're leaving out two pretty important details:

1. There's no evidence this actually happened and as far as I know no reputable journalist has even suggested it, and

2. Posters on this forum such as MS insisted he was getting 7x7, dismissed any argument to the contrary, and put this forth as their own supposition rather than citing rumours.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

You're leaving out two pretty important details:

1. There's no evidence this actually happened and as far as I know no reputable journalist has even suggested it, and

2. Posters on this forum such as MS insisted he was getting 7x7, dismissed any argument to the contrary, and put this forth as their own supposition rather than citing rumours.

LMAO what?

Renaud Lavoie said the Myers contract would be north of $7M: Renaud Lavoie: Tyler Myers contract could be north of $7-million - Sportsnet.ca

Pierre Lebrun said"he’s worth around $6.5-million to $7-million a season on a six- to seven-year deal": LeBrun Notebook: After some time to reflect, Lightning GM...

 

[sting101]

Myers has been a massive upgrade on Gudbranson. A 4/5 who eats up massive swaths of time and space and has some offensive talent.

The problem with our defense is the support they are getting from the forwards.

For Myers his high danger chances against is up by 25% and PDO is down 4% and save percentages are the lowest of his career at roughly 2%. from the 92s to 90%. This is confirmation of the previous statement and reflects his poor +/- in spite of good corsi numbers. Offensively without PP time he's basically the same player without the odd goal or extra assist.

 

[forty47seven]

LMAO what?

Renaud Lavoie said the Myers contract would be north of $7M: Renaud Lavoie: Tyler Myers contract could be north of $7-million - Sportsnet.ca

Pierre Lebrun said"he’s worth around $6.5-million to $7-million a season on a six- to seven-year deal": LeBrun Notebook: After some time to reflect, Lightning GM...

Did you listen to the Renaud clip? He says I think the deal well be 7 years between 6 and 8 million for both Myers and Gardiner. It's his opinion and he was off base with what both players got, especially Gardiner.

That's a nice piece of editing on the LeBrun quote. The full sentence was " On Myers, I think the market will dictate he's worth around $6.5-million to $7-million a season on a six- to seven-year deal"

Neither link suggest this was a figure floated by the Canucks. It was all speculation on the part of the fans and media.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Looks good with Hughes today

*Pretend to be shock

 

[Melvin]

Did you listen to the Renaud clip? He says I think the deal well be 7 years between 6 and 8 million for both Myers and Gardiner. It's his opinion and he was off base with what both players got, especially Gardiner.

That's a nice piece of editing on the LeBrun quote. The full sentence was " On Myers, I think the market will dictate he's worth around $6.5-million to $7-million a season on a six- to seven-year deal"

Neither link suggest this was a figure floated by the Canucks. It was all speculation on the part of the fans and media.

... And on what do you think they base their opinions...?

 

[y2kcanucks]

A taller version of Ben Hutton is a completely different level of player from Erik Gudbranson, and wouldn't be inaccurate.

Gudbranson is complete garbage.

Myers is a #4-5 guy being played in a top-pairing shutdown role which is going to sink his analytics. If he was playing in Jamie Benn's role, his numbers would look completely different.

And if you're asking if Myers will be Gudbranson-level by year 4-5 deal, absolutely. It would probably be surprising if he wasn't.

Myers is not a number 4 guy. Suggesting he's the calibre of a 2nd pair defenseman is wrong. You also said I was being ridiculous when I called Gudbranson a bottom pair defenseman and a right handed version of Sbisa back when we acquired him. I think you're a bit too conservative on things like this when the data suggests the player is not very good.

But sure, if you see Gudbranson as a player who probably shouldn't even be in the league, then I'll agree that Myers is better than that. I see Ben Hutton as a bottom pair defenseman at this point, so I'm comfortable bumping up my comparison to that. Probably more accurate actually. But to suggest Myers is a borderline second pairing defenseman is off.

 

[bandwagonesque]

... And on what do you think they base their opinions...?

All journalists in all markets speculate about potential free agent contracts and often get them wrong and overvalue them. Journalists in Winnipeg were suggesting Myers would get a huge offer months before free agency even began. Are you suggesting that in all of these cases it's likely the teams involved created these beliefs by floating false rumours, even when there's no evidence this happened? If not, what do you believe distinguishes this situation from the rest?