Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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He should consider training with Brady next summer.
In fact, all our young kids should be on the Gary Roberts program.
What a coup it would be to have G. Robert's working for the team 🤔🤔
He trained and lived with Ridley Grieg and Jake Sanderson this summer in Ottawa.
 
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RAFI BOMB

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May 11, 2016
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They are completely different type of players though. Thompson, Robertson, Tkachuk all had good hockey IQ as prospects. It was their athleticism they needed to work on.

Boucher is the opposite. One of the strongest and fastest and athletic in his leagues, but poor IQ makes him underperform his tools.
I mentioned Thompson and Robertson in the context of evaluating draft picks based on what the player actually becomes. If a team would have drafted either player 10th overall in their respective drafts, that team would likely have been criticized at the time but the end result would have proved that they had good insight.

The opposite is to take a completely principled approach to drafting. In that context, it doesn't matter what the player eventually becomes, what matters is whether they have the right indicators at the time of the draft and whether there is a consensus within scouts across the league that a prospect should be ranked that high. For example, a person could argue that Logan Brown was a good draft pick if they only rely on a subset of indicators and scouting consensus and are not as concerned with the eventual end result. That kind of approach would discourage speculation, but it would also mean that they wouldn't have drafted players like Thompson or Robertson much higher in the draft.

From a purely principled approach to drafting, a player like Tyler Boucher is a quality 2nd round pick. A principled drafter would find that Boucher lacked a sufficient number of the correct indicators and that projections of what he could become would be far too speculative to want to risk a high pick on him.

A speculative drafter would speculate on what they thought a player like Boucher could eventually become and take the risk drafting him high knowing that if it doesn't pan out then they will look really dumb, but if it does then it justified the risk and they get a better payoff then a more principled drafter.

That is why the end result is important here, it was a speculative draft choice, which means that it can only ever look good in the end. That doesn't mean it will look good in the end, just that the potential payoff and possible justification will only be clear by the end result.

As for your comments on Boucher, I don't see an IQ issue. Maybe he doesn't have the right level of deception to his game, but that can improve with experience. If there is something that is holding Boucher back from being a much more productive player, it is likely his hands. His shot is really good, very powerful and quick release. His accuracy is decent, but not quite where it needs to be. With some improvement he could be a good goal scorer at the NHL level. But his challenge is more puck control. He can't really pull off complex dangles, or he is just more limited with the types of movements he can create with the puck and still maintain control of it.

The fact that his puck control is not at that elite level, just limits his ability to produce points. It isn't that he can't pull of dekes or toe drags or anything like that, he just isn't as effective at pulling off a succession of dekes. A player with better puck control can use that to generate time and space for themselves and allow for more passing and shooting opportunities to unfold. A player with more limited puck control has one deke and then needs to make a pass or take a shot, or if they try something too complex they lose control of the puck and then lose all time and space.

Boucher still generates some very good chances below the dots and his passing and vision are very underrated there. His hands actually look better when he is stationary then when he is skating with the puck. He is kind of like Tkachuk in that sense. So if we were to be optimistic about some higher upside to Boucher we could look at how Tkachuk's hands have continued to improve as a pro and now he is starting to find a way to make those plays while also moving his feet. Maybe Boucher can learn from Tkachuk and take on some of his training methods, and if we are luck maybe he can develop in a similar way.

Boucher's more limited puck control mean that his best tools can only really be demonstrated with a lot of team structure. At the pro level, if he is working the cycle in the o zone with some good players, you will see his passing and vision on display, you will see him get to scoring positions and either score goals or get hard shots on net that the goalie struggles to control. He will be able to complement other skill players who are able to maintain that o zone pressure, keep a cycle or possession going and allow him to do give and gos or get in position to get shots off.

Boucher isn't a guy that will as much drive the offensive play, instead he has the ability to really support a play driver. He is kind of like a lot of the players that Crosby has developed good chemistry with throughout his career. A lot of them were arguably more depth type players that really developed solid chemistry with him and knew how to support his play. So you could argue that if Boucher ends up being a good offensive player at the NHL level, it will be because he develops some excellent chemistry with some really high quality offensive players. We already saw a flash of that in preseason where Boucher looked good on a line with Norris and Tkachuk.
 

Loach

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Boucher's passing and vision remind me a lot of Brady Tkachuk, it is a very underrated aspect of his game. I think much like Tkachuk, that aspect of his game will become much more clear as he develops.

I think Boucher is going to become a very fun player for the Sens. At minimum I think he becomes somewhat of a cross between Nic Deslauriers and Ryan Reaves. I also see some traits that remind me of Marcus Foligno and Josh Anderson.

Using some more obscure names, physically I see Boucher becoming a smaller version of Evgeni Artyukhin with a Martin Frk shot. He is going to be an absolute wrecking ball out there and he is going to have a very powerful shot.

He has a lot of the right attributes to be a quality complementary top six player. His speed, skill and structure to his game will allow him the ability to play with very high end players. We already saw that in preseason where he fit in well with Brady Tkachuk and Josh Norris. The question will be whether he can find consistent production to remain in those top six roles when he gets the opportunity.

He has flashes of high end skill but at this point it is kind of like Josh Anderson who also has the flashes that make you wonder what kind of player he could be if he was able to do that consistently. His lack of consistency is what keeps his production jumping up to more impressive levels.

A smaller version of Evgeni Artyukhin mixed with the toughness and physicality of Ryan Reaves and Nic Deslauriers, with some attributes of Marcus Foligno and Josh Anderson, with a shot like Martin Frk, and some vision and passing like a lesser version of Brady Tkachuk is the makings of a very fun and entertaining player.
What? This reminds of when Cobra went around the world gathering DNA and created Serpentor to defeat G.I. Joe.
 

benjiv1

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Mar 8, 2010
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I don’t think Marcus Foligno is a bad comparison. Obviously Moose is bigger/taller, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Boucher maxes out at a lean 215.

Obviously drafting Marcus Foligno at 10th overall wouldn’t be great, but he’s a useful player to have in your top 9.
 
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Oscar The Grouch

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Only time will tell. Would Tage Thompson have still gone 26th overall in the 2016 draft if teams knew he was going to become the player he is now? Would Jason Robertson still have gone 39th overall in the 2017 draft if teams knew he was going to become the player he is now?

What Boucher eventually becomes is what will determine whether the pick was justified or not.

I was convinced that Brady Tkachuk had the ability to be the player he is now. I was very outspoken about that. In that situation my intuition happened to be pretty good. I like what I see with Boucher and my gut sense is that he is going to be a lot better player than a lot of people think. Will my gut instincts turn out be be worthwhile in this situation? Only time is going to tell that. I'm either going to look really smart or really dumb so we will see how it plays out.

Your comparisons to Tkachuk aren't helping your case. Despite some naysayers (who were mostly amateur hfscoutboy nerds), Tkachuk had shown FAR more to scouts at the same age as Boucher. They aren't comparable in any useful sense.

For every "whatabout this other player who everyone thought was gonna suck but made it" there are one thousand, "whatabout this other player who everyone thought was gonna suck and.... sucked."
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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This pick was so painful. Not only was Cole Sillinger sitting there waiting for us if in fact we were determined to take the son of a former NHLer, but there were about five or six other, better prospects amongst the next ten who were taken. Our scouting staff has done some tremendous work in the past, but let's be honest - they whiffed badly on this one. I get that scouting in that 2020-21 year was next to impossible, but instead of trying to get cute and swing for the fences they just should have made the safe pick...
Let me ask a question who the f*** is cole sillinger.
 

bert

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Only time will tell. Would Tage Thompson have still gone 26th overall in the 2016 draft if teams knew he was going to become the player he is now? Would Jason Robertson still have gone 39th overall in the 2017 draft if teams knew he was going to become the player he is now?

What Boucher eventually becomes is what will determine whether the pick was justified or not.

I was convinced that Brady Tkachuk had the ability to be the player he is now. I was very outspoken about that. In that situation my intuition happened to be pretty good. I like what I see with Boucher and my gut sense is that he is going to be a lot better player than a lot of people think. Will my gut instincts turn out be be worthwhile in this situation? Only time is going to tell that. I'm either going to look really smart or really dumb so we will see how it plays out.
Thank goodness for your posts, knowledge and insight around here. Always well educated with video proof.
 

Oscar The Grouch

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The main reason Boucher takes a disproportionate amount of abuse from people here is because you guys (3 or 4 posters) perpetuate the fallacy that he was worthy of being picked at 10.

Just admit it was most likely a bad pick at 10. Then we can move on and accept Boucher for what he is.
 

bert

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The main reason Boucher takes a disproportionate amount of abuse from people here is because you guys (3 or 4 posters) perpetuate the fallacy that he was worthy of being picked at 10.

Just admit it was most likely a bad pick at 10. Then we can move on and accept Boucher for what he is.
Everyone knows it was a reach. But a bunch of posters won't accept that he is here whether they like it or not. They only stat watch and don't watch prospects. It's honestly exhausting here where so many posters rip on Boucher. He is a unique physical specimen that has a skillset that translates to the NHL. Won't be a scorer but is likely effective in his role. His development curve was always going to be longer. People need to be patient and accepting of the player. But you don't find that much on the internet.

Alot of the same posters that I argued Quinn was a way better proepect than Rossi. Size development and projection aren't quantifiable to many people around here when evaluating prospects.
 
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thinkwild

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I can admit that Boucher is probably not going to end up being the most productive player we could have picked there. It was even harder than usual to ascribe much certainty to those picks. But it is still to be seen whether he has the best impact for us when he’s here.

Oh the years the Sens wanted a Gary Roberts type player to complement the skill. We would have paid dearly for it. Firsts, prospects, and players. Well I guess actually that was Muckler’s problem wasn’t it – he wouldn’t pay that.

But here all we needed to do is take a guy 10 to 20 spots earlier. And in fact the only likely pick we could use to get him. So we’ll see. You may well be right that Sillinger will be putting up more points and we may end up wishing we had taken him if our top 6 is still lacking then. But its not a certainty yet that when Boucher is here we will be wishing for another top 6 forward more than an identity guy that we would otherwise be willing to pay a first and a prospect for.

And if this longshot does pay off, we will be crowing about taking the right risks. Fingers crossed, but its no sure thing I agree. Still more hopefulness than likeliness. But the saying isn’t- Risk is death. I like the risk for this team at this time.
 

HSF

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Only time will tell. Would Tage Thompson have still gone 26th overall in the 2016 draft if teams knew he was going to become the player he is now? Would Jason Robertson still have gone 39th overall in the 2017 draft if teams knew he was going to become the player he is now?

What Boucher eventually becomes is what will determine whether the pick was justified or not.

I was convinced that Brady Tkachuk had the ability to be the player he is now. I was very outspoken about that. In that situation my intuition happened to be pretty good. I like what I see with Boucher and my gut sense is that he is going to be a lot better player than a lot of people think. Will my gut instincts turn out be be worthwhile in this situation? Only time is going to tell that. I'm either going to look really smart or really dumb so we will see how it plays out.
I think your line of thinking right after a draft makes sense. I think 2 years in it is not looking that great for Boucher. Thompson and Robertson looked good at this point.

I was pro brady and pro zadina but most people in the hockey world who make drafting list had Brady high in the draft continuously throughout the year. Its a different situation for sure

I can admit that Boucher is probably not going to end up being the most productive player we could have picked there. It was even harder than usual to ascribe much certainty to those picks. But it is still to be seen whether he has the best impact for us when he’s here.

Oh the years the Sens wanted a Gary Roberts type player to complement the skill. We would have paid dearly for it. Firsts, prospects, and players. Well I guess actually that was Muckler’s problem wasn’t it – he wouldn’t pay that.

But here all we needed to do is take a guy 10 to 20 spots earlier. And in fact the only likely pick we could use to get him. So we’ll see. You may well be right that Sillinger will be putting up more points and we may end up wishing we had taken him if our top 6 is still lacking then. But its not a certainty yet that when Boucher is here we will be wishing for another top 6 forward more than an identity guy that we would otherwise be willing to pay a first and a prospect for.

And if this longshot does pay off, we will be crowing about taking the right risks. Fingers crossed, but its no sure thing I agree. Still more hopefulness than likeliness. But the saying isn’t- Risk is death. I like the risk for this team at this time.
we have our roberts

he wears number 7

Everyone knows it was a reach. But a bunch of posters won't accept that he is here whether they like it or not. They only stat watch and don't watch prospects. It's honestly exhausting here where so many posters rip on Boucher. He is a unique physical specimen that has a skillset that translates to the NHL. Won't be a scorer but is likely effective in his role. His development curve was always going to be longer. People need to be patient and accepting of the player. But you don't find that much on the internet.

Alot of the same posters that I argued Quinn was a way better proepect than Rossi. Size development and projection aren't quantifiable to many people around here when evaluating prospects.
people accept that Boucher could become a 3rd/4th liner and that it was a poor selection at 10

It is what it is but those seems to be the general consensus rn
 

Agent Zuuuub

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Maybe a Barclay Goodrow type. I find Goodrow to be a pretty low IQ player but he has good size and good speed and has carved out a role for himself as a valuable player.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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I am really not sure how you can look at the raw Boucher and think of Jason Robertson specifically in any way what so ever.

I see a physical straight line player with decent size and straight line speed , though not a burner. I think he tops out as a 3rd line winger primarily. If DJ is his coach he may even get some PP2 time and chances up the lineup when there are players out. He will be counted on as a physical energy player that can get in and be disruptive on the fore check and can pot the odd goal here and there.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Was Boucher a good pick at 10?
I feel like if you’re still running around asking people this two years post draft you need to just find another aspect of the team to follow. Who cares if he was or wasn’t. The draft was a long ass time ago

I am really not sure how you can look at the raw Boucher and think of Jason Robertson specifically in any way what so ever.

I see a physical straight line player with decent size and straight line speed , though not a burner. I think he tops out as a 3rd line winger primarily. If DJ is his coach he may even get some PP2 time and chances up the lineup when there are players out. He will be counted on as a physical energy player that can get in and be disruptive on the fore check and can pot the odd goal here and there.
With his shot and physicality he will def see some playoff time
 

Sens of Anarchy

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I feel like if you’re still running around asking people this two years post draft you need to just find another aspect of the team to follow. Who cares if he was or wasn’t. The draft was a long ass time ago


With his shot and physicality he will def see some playoff time
def? ok if you say so
 

Sens of Anarchy

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We’ve employed motte and Joseph as well as kastelic on our second PP lol. You don’t think Boucher has a high probability of seeing the second pp at one point or another?
I said he may get some PP2 time.
You said Def
I said Def?
You said High Probability
lol
83% chance
 

ottawah

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Jan 7, 2011
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I feel like if you’re still running around asking people this two years post draft you need to just find another aspect of the team to follow. Who cares if he was or wasn’t. The draft was a long ass time ago


With his shot and physicality he will def see some playoff time
I'm not seeing where his shot is all that great. In a league with goalies that are a few levels below ECHL goaltending (and 90% of OHL goalies will not get an ECHL sniff), his shooting percentage (without empty net goals) is quite mediocre at 10.7%. Thats pretty much OHL average. It is certainly an improvement on his 8.8% of last year.

There may be some good points to his game moving forward, but the shot does not appear to be one of them.
 

ChurchOfAlfie

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Dec 4, 2016
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If I were a betting man, I'd say we're shortly going to get confirmation that the OHL suspended Tyler Boucher for being Tyler Boucher, and not because of a consistent reading of the rulebook.



 
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Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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If I were a betting man, I'd say we're shortly going to get confirmation that the OHL suspended Tyler Boucher for being Tyler Boucher, and not because of a consistent reading of the rulebook.




A bit of a tangent, but a clear mouthguard is a ten min misconduct? Whats the logic there?
 

ChurchOfAlfie

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A bit of a tangent, but a clear mouthguard is a ten min misconduct? Whats the logic there?

So refs can have an easier time seeing if a player is indeed wearing a mouthguard or not.

From the OMHA:

" Not be clear or translucent in colour:

An intra-oral mouth guard must be easily seen when the mouth of a player is opened. This is essential in order that on-ice officials can enforce the policy and for emergency medical services personnel to be able to rapidly determine if an injured player has a mouth guard is in place."
 
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RAFI BOMB

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Your comparisons to Tkachuk aren't helping your case. Despite some naysayers (who were mostly amateur hfscoutboy nerds), Tkachuk had shown FAR more to scouts at the same age as Boucher. They aren't comparable in any useful sense.

For every "whatabout this other player who everyone thought was gonna suck but made it" there are one thousand, "whatabout this other player who everyone thought was gonna suck and.... sucked."
I don't need to make a case. I have my subjective evaluations of Boucher and my projections of him, others have their subjective evaluations and projections.

I accept that others don't have the same assessments and projections as me. In the past I tried to persuade others to my perspective on Boucher, but now I just accept the fact that we have fundamentally different opinions on the matter.

I believe Boucher is a good prospect who has good upside and I believe there is sufficient merit behind me holding such a belief. If you don't like my take, fine, believe whatever you want to believe.

Whether my subjective assessments and projections were good or bad will only be determined in the long run. At that point I will either find out that my beliefs were warranted or whether they are in need of a serious reevaluation.
 

bert

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but even that is generous

in his D+2 season Lee put up a modest 26pts in 38 games at UND. The next season he went on to have a decent enough AHL rookie year (almost 0.5ppg) to earn a call up by March.
Brian Lee is one of the softest players this teams ever drafted. They aren't remotely similar in this aspect of hockey. It's exhausting to read statistical comparisons when Bouchers value is his physicality. Go watch a game.

I don't need to make a case. I have my subjective evaluations of Boucher and my projections of him, others have their subjective evaluations and projections.

I accept that others don't have the same assessments and projections as me. In the past I tried to persuade others to my perspective on Boucher, but now I just accept the fact that we have fundamentally different opinions on the matter.

I believe Boucher is a good prospect who has good upside and I believe there is sufficient merit behind me holding such a belief. If you don't like my take, fine, believe whatever you want to believe.

Whether my subjective assessments and projections were good or bad will only be determined in the long run. At that point I will either find out that my beliefs were warranted or whether they are in need of a serious reevaluation.
Most of them are alot better than 99% of the people that post here. So I'll go with the proven consistent poster over the one that still complains about the pick due to their in depth statistical analysis.
 
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