Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

[Samsquanch]

Obviously having Sillinger would be preferable. There's usually multiple players in every draft you wish you had instead unless your picking at the very top.

But having said that, the Sens don't actually need more smallish firepower on the roster as of today. Giroux and Debrincat are enough.

Boucher could actually be the missing link on this team - if he's as badass tough as he's being billed to be. Brady needs a modern day enforcer to take care of the dirty work that he shouldn't have to get involved in.

He does now because he won't let the team get disrespected - and has put the entire league on notice. Shenanigans won't be tolerated. But he needs a capable right hand man that can be relied on for when the going gets really tough. And Kleven on the backend too ideally.

Point being is that a Sillinger type doesn't necessarily have a spot in our top 6. And guys like Greig, Pinto, Formenton and Boucher are all possibly better long term fits on a 3rd line. So I like the idea of a brusing Boucher on this team someday.

 

[Puikiou]

Obviously having Sillinger would be preferable. There's usually multiple players in every draft you wish you had instead unless your picking at the very top.

But having said that, the Sens don't actually need more smallish firepower on the roster as of today. Giroux and Debrincat are enough.

Boucher could actually be the missing link on this team - if he's as badass tough as he's being billed to be. Brady needs a modern day enforcer to take care of the dirty work that he shouldn't have to get involved in.

He does now because he won't let the team get disrespected - and has put the entire league on notice. Shenanigans won't be tolerated. But he needs a capable right hand man that can be relied on for when the going gets really tough. And Kleven on the backend too ideally.

Point being is that a Sillinger type doesn't necessarily have a spot in our top 6. And guys like Greig, Pinto, Formenton and Boucher are all possibly better long term fits on a 3rd line. So I like the idea of a brusing Boucher on this team someday.

Cole Sillinger is 6'2'' - 205lbs, Tyler Boucher is 6'1'' - 205lbs (granted he's more physical, but Sillinger is no slouch in that department).

Perspective: the Debrincat trade might not be necessary this year if we drafted Sillinger last year. This year's pick could have then be used for a bonafide top 2/4 defenseman.

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Giroux - Stützle - Sillinger
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Kelly - Kastelic - Watson

Chabot - Zub
Chychrun - Hamonic
Sanderson - Holden

Talbot
Forsberg
​

 

[Samsquanch]

Cole Sillinger is 6'2'' - 205lbs, Tyler Boucher is 6'1'' - 205lbs (granted he's more physical, but Sillinger is no slouch in that department).

Perspective: the Debrincat trade might not be necessary this year if we drafted Sillinger last year. This year's pick could have then be used for a bonafide top 2/4 defenseman.

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Giroux - Stützle - Sillinger
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Kelly - Kastelic - Watson

Chabot - Zub
Chychrun - Hamonic
Sanderson - Holden

Talbot
Forsberg
​

Im happier with the current reality if it meant we dont trade for DeBrincat. He and Stutzle could be electric together.

Again I obviously know Sillinger is the better player and pick. It happens, and the silver lining is that we might get exactly what our bottom 6 needs with a player like Boucher. No need to hate on the kid in the meantime, imo.

 

[God Says No]

Im happier with the current reality if it meant we dont trade for DeBrincat. He and Stutzle could be electric together.

Again I obviously know Sillinger is the better player and pick. It happens, and the silver lining is that we might get exactly what our bottom 6 needs with a player like Boucher. No need to hate on the kid in the meantime, imo.

These kind of comments irk me. I don't see much, if any, hate here. It looks like it's something conjured up by the very pro-Boucher crowd where any type of criticism of the pick and player (which is valid BTW) is considered hate. Personally speaking, I have no hate for Boucher. I hope he pans out for the betterment of the team which I love. But I'm not going to sugarcoat his production and development so far if it's not realistic.

 

[Samsquanch]

These kind of comments irk me. I don't see much, if any, hate here. It looks like it's something conjured up by the very pro-Boucher crowd where any type of criticism of the pick and player (which is valid BTW) is considered hate. Personally speaking, I have no hate for Boucher. I hope he pans out for the betterment of the team which I love. But I'm not going to sugarcoat his production and development so far if it's not realistic.

And these comments irk me tbh.

Stop pretending like your a victim of the pro-Boucher crowd. Just accept that some people like him, and others dont. Its a message board where people make strong opinions. Shocker I know.

But dont be oblivious and pretend like there arent people from both sides that are going to the extreme end of the spectrum with their opinion on him. Its happening on both sides. No need to play dumb about it though.

 

[PlayersLtd]

All the pro Boucher side is saying is "wait and see." No one denies that he was a reach and no one denies that his metrics to date are underwhelming. The most extreme opinion on that side is to fully excuse his play due to the tough stretch he hit with injuries, covid etc...

The anti Boucher side on the other hand has elements that have completely written him off, and many of them doing so with vigour. The equivalent on the pro side would be to say he's a lock for the top 6, an extreme no one is going to. Added to this, the fodder is doubled as they take anything negative about Boucher and apply it to PD and the scouting staff for choosing him.

On a spectrum of rationality one is certainly less to the end than the other. I think the defensiveness is concomitant with the level of irrationality both sides perceive of the other, thus the pro side might be a little bit more aggressive in the debate.

 

[Ice-Tray]

All the pro Boucher side is saying is "wait and see." No one denies that he was a reach and no one denies that his metrics to date are underwhelming. The most extreme opinion on that side is to fully excuse his play due to the tough stretch he hit with injuries, covid etc...

The anti Boucher side on the other hand has elements that have completely written him off, and many of them doing so with vigour. The equivalent on the pro side would be to say he's a lock for the top 6, an extreme no one is going to. Added to this, the fodder is doubled as they take anything negative about Boucher and apply it to PD and the scouting staff for choosing him.

On a spectrum of rationality one is certainly less to the end than the other. I think the defensiveness is concomitant with the level of irrationality both sides perceive of the other, thus the pro side might be a little bit more aggressive in the debate.

Bang on, and applies pretty much universally to this board’s topics of the day.

In addition, I’m often reminded in here of the argument sketch by Monty Python. A true wonderful and classic representation of an HFSens discussion decades before it’s time!

One of my favs

 

[OD99]

All the pro Boucher side is saying is "wait and see." No one denies that he was a reach and no one denies that his metrics to date are underwhelming. The most extreme opinion on that side is to fully excuse his play due to the tough stretch he hit with injuries, covid etc...

The anti Boucher side on the other hand has elements that have completely written him off, and many of them doing so with vigour. The equivalent on the pro side would be to say he's a lock for the top 6, an extreme no one is going to. Added to this, the fodder is doubled as they take anything negative about Boucher and apply it to PD and the scouting staff for choosing him.

On a spectrum of rationality one is certainly less to the end than the other. I think the defensiveness is concomitant with the level of irrationality both sides perceive of the other, thus the pro side might be a little bit more aggressive in the debate.

Good lord.

Majority on both sides are saying wait and see and the negative ones writing him off are balanced by the ones saying he will be a top 6 and using a scrimmage as evidence he, "can pick corners".

The outrage from either side is a waste of time.

He's a project and let's all hope he becomes a valuable player.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Good lord.

Majority on both sides are saying wait and see and the negative ones writing him off are balanced by the ones saying he will be a top 6 and using a scrimmage as evidence he, "can pick corners".

The outrage from either side is a waste of time.

He's a project and let's all hope he becomes a valuable player.

Waste of time for sure. Nobody is arguing that he will be a top 6, not that I have seen anyway.

 

[God Says No]

Good lord.

Majority on both sides are saying wait and see and the negative ones writing him off are balanced by the ones saying he will be a top 6 and using a scrimmage as evidence he, "can pick corners".

The outrage from either side is a waste of time.

He's a project and let's all hope he becomes a valuable player.

Exactly. Well said.

All the pro Boucher side is saying is "wait and see." No one denies that he was a reach and no one denies that his metrics to date are underwhelming. The most extreme opinion on that side is to fully excuse his play due to the tough stretch he hit with injuries, covid etc...

The anti Boucher side on the other hand has elements that have completely written him off, and many of them doing so with vigour. The equivalent on the pro side would be to say he's a lock for the top 6, an extreme no one is going to. Added to this, the fodder is doubled as they take anything negative about Boucher and apply it to PD and the scouting staff for choosing him.

On a spectrum of rationality one is certainly less to the end than the other. I think the defensiveness is concomitant with the level of irrationality both sides perceive of the other, thus the pro side might be a little bit more aggressive in the debate.

LOL, vigour. I think both sides are mostly wait and see. I do think you are exaggerating things from the "anti" side.

Stop pretending like your a victim of the pro-Boucher crowd. Just accept that some people like him, and others dont. Its a message board where people make strong opinions. Shocker I know.

But dont be oblivious and pretend like there arent people from both sides that are going to the extreme end of the spectrum with their opinion on him. Its happening on both sides. No need to play dumb about it though.

Nope, not a victim but irked by the pro guys like you whining. This is a free board and people can post whatever they wish.

 

[Cosmix]

I met Gordie Howe at a dinner at the arena before a game, forget why he was there though, he was pretty old at that point.

Great memory!

 

[Ice-Tray]

The lengths people will go to defend being negative.

It’s allowed, of course, but there’s nothing beneficial about it. The planet as a whole could do with a lot less of it in general.

 

[OD99]

Waste of time for sure. Nobody is arguing that he will be a top 6, not that I have seen anyway.

Then you aren't really looking.

But, whatever...don't really care anymore. I need to see more and hope he does very well this season.

The lengths people will go to defend being negative.

It’s allowed, of course, but there’s nothing beneficial about it. The planet as a whole could do with a lot less of it in general.

Who exactly is being negative and what are these lengths they are going?

The planet thing...yeesh.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

The lengths people will go to defend being negative.

It’s allowed, of course, but there’s nothing beneficial about it. The planet as a whole could do with a lot less of it in general.

uhh how about being realistic?

 

[Icelevel]

The thing is….the relative extreme negativity is based on something that hasn’t happened yet. So it’s on the crazy side.
Others like myself have just been saying he’s not a write off, you can’t say it was a garbage pick, he actually looked good in many of his recent games and he’s likely to help the team in a significant way so….hold on, let’s wait and see and….it wouldn’t hurt to show some support for our players while they go through rough periods.

 

[PlayersLtd]

The thing is….the relative extreme negativity is based on something that hasn’t happened yet. So it’s on the crazy side.
Others like myself have just been saying he’s not a write off, you can’t say it was a garbage pick, he actually looked good in many of his recent games and he’s likely to help the team in a significant way so….hold on, let’s wait and see and….it wouldn’t hurt to show some support for our players while they go through rough periods.

Exactly.

Boucher is today's microcosm of how many people around here have reacted to this team for the last 5 years. Constant negativity, no silver lining, no hope, sky is falling and will never lift...

However, some choose to see the forest through the trees if for no other reason than what you said, 'It wouldn't hurt to show some support..."

I think Boucher, in his own way, will follow a similar fate as the team has over the last 5 years. And if you're always on the negative side of these things, well, I just don't know how you hold your head high at the end of the day when it comes to this team.

 

[OD99]

Exactly.

Boucher is today's microcosm of how many people around here have reacted to this team for the last 5 years. Constant negativity, no silver lining, no hope, sky is falling and will never lift...

However, some choose to see the forest through the trees if for no other reason than what you said, 'It wouldn't hurt to show some support..."

I think Boucher, in his own way, will follow a similar fate as the team has over the last 5 years. And if you're always on the negative side of these things, well, I just don't know how you hold your head high at the end of the day when it comes to this team.

The extreme hurt some of you feel due to posters pointing out that Boucher didn't have a good D1 season is what is the most surprising.

Seems you are all taking this personally and that you are reading what you want to see.

Will bring the poll back up to add a dose of reality to the discussion.

 

[Icelevel]

The extreme hurt some of you feel due to posters pointing out that Boucher didn't have a good D1 season is what is the most surprising.

Seems you are all taking this personally and that you are reading what you want to see.

Will bring the poll back up to add a dose of reality to the discussion.

No that’s not it. There’s no argument about his lacklustre numbers in his D1 season.
The issue is with people calling it a bad pick or calling him a bust already. And then going on and on about it.
And the new thing is what you are doing here, pretending like that never happened(basically wasting peoples time) It’s actually you the one who is getting all defensive for some reason. Back off, let it play out, talk in a year or two.

 

[OD99]

So they locked the poll thread but you can see from 160 voters 11% said he was a bust.

The majority said wait and see and then a group said he probably won't reach his potential (to me the assumed potential knowing his skills and draft pedigree at 10th overall).

Where Do You Stand on Tyler Boucher?

Would be massive, but Neil had 1200+ PIMs in the 5 seasons prior to getting to the NHL, and 170+ Per 82 in every season he was in the league outside of his final season. Boucher will never play that kind of game. Sadly, no one else in the future of hockey will play that kind of game.

forums.hfboards.com

This is why from my point of view the comments about all the hate and negativity are overblown.

That said, I am sure the posts about negative comments stand out more to me so I can understand why the other side may feel there is more negativity than there truly is.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

This is just my subjective take, but I think chance generation should be considered an important factor when evaluating prospects. Production certainly is an important factor, but I just think it is really important to consider what regions of the ice that any given prospect produces from and what regions of the ice they generate scoring chances from.

The reason why I think it is important is that there has been some analysis on scoring chances in the NHL. For example:
Analytics with Alison: Digging into High-Danger Chances

And:
NEW: Defining Scoring Chances | WAR On Ice: The Blog
Which argued the following:

Second, we’ve empirically tested for higher probabilities within these zones for two types of shots:

• Rebounds: Any shot that follows within 3 seconds of a blocked, missed or saved shot. All have measurably higher probabilities of success in each of the three zones.
• Rush shots: Any shot that follows within 4 seconds of any event in the shooting team’s neutral or offensive zones. This is based on David Johnson‘s definition, but the four second threshold gave general and statistically significant increases in probability.

So based on these measures, the average probability of a goal given the type and locations, and the consideration of team defense, we have these conditions for a “scoring chance”:

• In the low danger zone, unblocked rebounds and rush shots only.
• In the medium danger zone, all unblocked shots.
• In the high danger zone, all shot attempts (since blocked shots taken here may be more representative of more “wide-open nets”, though we don’t know this for sure.)

It is my belief that based on this information we can evaluate prospects. We can see where on the ice that they tend to generate chances from and determine whether or not that is likely to be successful at the NHL level. As a result a prospect that generates chances in the areas that have a high probability of success in the NHL, has a reasonable likelihood of producing at the NHL level. A prospect whose scoring chances are occur in areas of the ice that have a low probability of success in the NHL is less likely to produce in the NHL generally speaking.

It was this kind of logic that gave me confidence in Tkachuk's production at the NHL level. Even as he has been in the NHL I have been confident that his production would increase because his scoring chances generated were in high danger areas that play favorably to probabilities of success.

It is also a reason why I have a higher confidence than some with regards to prospects like Tyler Boucher, Zack Ostapchuk, Egor Sokolov, Mark Kastelic and Jakov Novak among others.

Maybe there are some different ways of looking at this that I haven't considered but at this point I think there is an advantage to generating scoring chances in areas that have high probability of success in the NHL. From some of the other stuff I have listened to, like that lecture by former Winnipeg Jets, and current Florida Panthers assistant coach Jamie Kompon's lecture is seems like there is an increased emphasis in the NHL to generate "chaos" around the net. That it is really difficult to score from other areas on the ice and that NHL teams like to get pucks on net and look for those 2nd and 3rd chances to score goals. That requires players to be in those high danger areas and be capable of generating further scoring chances in those areas. I think that plays favorably to some of our players and prospects.

If other people on here have some different perspectives on those charts provided, how to evaluate and generate scoring chances and how prospects should be evaluated relative to that information, I would certainly be interested in broadening my perspective.

 

[JaredCowen4Norris]

Exactly.

Boucher is today's microcosm of how many people around here have reacted to this team for the last 5 years. Constant negativity, no silver lining, no hope, sky is falling and will never lift...

However, some choose to see the forest through the trees if for no other reason than what you said, 'It wouldn't hurt to show some support..."

I think Boucher, in his own way, will follow a similar fate as the team has over the last 5 years. And if you're always on the negative side of these things, well, I just don't know how you hold your head high at the end of the day when it comes to this team.

Brannstrom's off somewhere reading this comment wondering when he'll be afforded such leeway.

It's the inconsistency with the angle you mentioned that irks me. You can see posters in this thread who have continually pooped on Brannstrom getting defensive about criticisms of Boucher. The conversation around Brann never devolved into saying people are being negative and not supporting the team. Some felt like they'd seen enough and had labelled him a bust, some stressed patience because he was a young defenseman who played through injuries/abnormal seasons/terrible teams.

If we're going to be positive about the players in our system, that should be applied consistently. Some of the posters we see in this thread passionately defending Boucher despite his terrible D+1 season are the same ones who make comments about how Brannstrom isn't an NHL player whenever he makes a mistake. Just ends up coming off as rules for thee but not for me.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That don't impress me much ... lol

Don't sleep on Brennan Othmann

 

[Sweatred]

View attachment 576819
View attachment 576820
View attachment 576821 That don't impress me much ... lol

Don't sleep on Brennan Othmann

His skating isn’t great - it will have to improve for him to make the NHL . His game gives me Lazar vibes.

I don’t think that should have been our answer at 10OA.

 

[Cosmix]

Obviously having Sillinger would be preferable. There's usually multiple players in every draft you wish you had instead unless your picking at the very top.

But having said that, the Sens don't actually need more smallish firepower on the roster as of today. Giroux and Debrincat are enough.

Boucher could actually be the missing link on this team - if he's as badass tough as he's being billed to be. Brady needs a modern day enforcer to take care of the dirty work that he shouldn't have to get involved in.

He does now because he won't let the team get disrespected - and has put the entire league on notice. Shenanigans won't be tolerated. But he needs a capable right hand man that can be relied on for when the going gets really tough. And Kleven on the backend too ideally.

Point being is that a Sillinger type doesn't necessarily have a spot in our top 6. And guys like Greig, Pinto, Formenton and Boucher are all possibly better long term fits on a 3rd line. So I like the idea of a brusing Boucher on this team someday.

I like the idea of a big, tough, hard-checking policeman on the 4th line; however, Boucher does not appear to that type.

 

[Cosmix]

This is just my subjective take, but I think chance generation should be considered an important factor when evaluating prospects. Production certainly is an important factor, but I just think it is really important to consider what regions of the ice that any given prospect produces from and what regions of the ice they generate scoring chances from.

The reason why I think it is important is that there has been some analysis on scoring chances in the NHL. For example:
Analytics with Alison: Digging into High-Danger Chances

And:
NEW: Defining Scoring Chances | WAR On Ice: The Blog
Which argued the following:


It is my belief that based on this information we can evaluate prospects. We can see where on the ice that they tend to generate chances from and determine whether or not that is likely to be successful at the NHL level. As a result a prospect that generates chances in the areas that have a high probability of success in the NHL, has a reasonable likelihood of producing at the NHL level. A prospect whose scoring chances are occur in areas of the ice that have a low probability of success in the NHL is less likely to produce in the NHL generally speaking.

It was this kind of logic that gave me confidence in Tkachuk's production at the NHL level. Even as he has been in the NHL I have been confident that his production would increase because his scoring chances generated were in high danger areas that play favorably to probabilities of success.

It is also a reason why I have a higher confidence than some with regards to prospects like Tyler Boucher, Zack Ostapchuk, Egor Sokolov, Mark Kastelic and Jakov Novak among others.

Maybe there are some different ways of looking at this that I haven't considered but at this point I think there is an advantage to generating scoring chances in areas that have high probability of success in the NHL. From some of the other stuff I have listened to, like that lecture by former Winnipeg Jets, and current Florida Panthers assistant coach Jamie Kompon's lecture is seems like there is an increased emphasis in the NHL to generate "chaos" around the net. That it is really difficult to score from other areas on the ice and that NHL teams like to get pucks on net and look for those 2nd and 3rd chances to score goals. That requires players to be in those high danger areas and be capable of generating further scoring chances in those areas. I think that plays favorably to some of our players and prospects.

If other people on here have some different perspectives on those charts provided, how to evaluate and generate scoring chances and how prospects should be evaluated relative to that information, I would certainly be interested in broadening my perspective.

Interesting data.

The last chart says "Over half of all goals come from less than 30 degrees off the center line" but then indicates that the percentages are 12.3 + 9.7 = 22% for the right side "less than 30 degrees" of the ice surface which presumably would mean 44% if the percentages were the same 22% for the left side shots. Or perhaps the left side shots account for 28% of the shots. Hmm. Am I reading this correctly?