Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

[JungleBeat]

The guy is 6’3. His best best is to work on his skating+shot (areas that can be improved) and be be a physical force out there. At least one of his tools needs to be above average to make the NHL.

 

[God Says No]

The guy is 6’3. His best best is to work on his skating+shot (areas that can be improved) and be be a physical force out there. At least one of his tools needs to be above average to make the NHL.

He is? Everywhere I checked it says 6'1".

Can we go to sleep now?

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Of course it’s a possibility, but it would be extremely, extremely surprising. His contract affords that ability, but doesn’t make it a prospective option.

AHL for some experience, sure, not remotely likely whatsoever but could possibly happen, but Boucher can’t play in the NHL now, Unquestionably. Let alone produce adequately in a 4th line role. That’s pretty nuts.

We’re hoping he learns to produce offensively at 19 in the CHL, which he should, but he’s not jumping on an NHL teams 4th line at 19 and producing adequately when he couldn’t do that in the OHL less than a year before.

Interesting perspective. From what I have seen, I believe he is capable of playing NHL games now. Aside from making evaluations based on his point production, the rest of his play suggests that not only will he become an NHL player but that actually he is fairly close to being an NHL player already. That is why I said I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow made the team out of camp and played the full season with the Senators. I also don't share the same concerns about his production. I see a player whose production could be the same if not better in playing at a higher level where there is much more structure in the play.

Maybe my take is crazy or maybe I am missing something important but my perspective seems to make sense to me. When preseason starts we will get the opportunity to see what the case really is. We will get to see Boucher in intra-squad scrimmages and pre-season games. It should become pretty clear there whether he is close to being an NHL player or not.

I also find it interesting the Senators management doesn't seem nearly as concerned with junior point production as some of the fans on here are. Jesse Winchester had an interview at the Sens development camp and he mentioned that Zack Ostapchuk was worried about his production early last season. Winchester told him that he had no concerns with his play, that he was playing fine and that if he stuck with playing the right way that he would produce a ton in the playoffs. Carson Latimer was on the Locked on Senators podcast after development camp, and he mentioned the the Sens development staff wanted him to play the "right way" and that he had to make an adjustment in his mindset. That as a junior player he wants to be a scorer and try to put up a lot of points but that it is more important that he plays the right way.

I haven't heard any further elaborations on it but it does seem like the Sens prioritize structure and details in the players play. Dj Smith frequently mentions in interviews whether players have good details in their game and when players are in the bubble he often points out the question of whether they can get the details right. I'm sure the Sens would like their prospects to score more but I don't think they are willing to sacrifice those details to achieve it. I think they want their prospects well versed and suited for the subtle details of playoff style hockey.

There is clearly some relevancy to junior production and individuals like myself may undervalue it but I think a lot of people on here tend to overvalue it. Some of the things that could lead to higher production in the junior leagues are arguably bad habits that might make it more difficult for a prospect to eventually become an NHL player. Troy Mann has mentioned in numerous interviews about the big thing with working with prospects once they turn pro is that he has to "coach the junior out of the player". Hearing that and seeing the stuff from the development staff and comments from DJ Smith, gives me the impression that as an organization they would like to be more proactive in that and try to "coach the junior out of the player" prior to them turning pro. I could see that negatively impacting production at the junior level as it can be easier to put up points by simply neglecting structure and detail.

Now, I'm certainly no expert in this stuff, I'm just analyzing what I see and trying to pay attention to the details in order to make sense of what is going on. Maybe my interpretation of some of this stuff is off. You seem to have a fair amount of experience so if you have a different perspective of what the development staff means by "play the right way", or what the "details" are that DJ Smith is referring to, or what Troy Mann means by "coach the junior out of the player", I would be very interested in hearing it. I would certainly like to understand these things better so I can make more accurate reads on prospects and players, and to determine where they are on their development path and what things they need to work on. So if you have further insight into this stuff by all means share it with me.

 

[OD99]

Have to admire your passion for the player.

Not ready to buy the hype he could play in the NHL next season but you certainly believe in him.

Hope he shows me up and has a good season with the 67's.

 

[JD1]

Have to admire your passion for the player.

Not ready to buy the hype he could play in the NHL next season but you certainly believe in him.

Hope he shows me up and has a good season with the 67's.

Well if you look at it this way, Boucher skates well enough and is physically mature enough to be in the NHL. That makes it possible which in my opinion is all @RAFI BOMB is saying

Contrast that with other prospects

Could Sokolov have played at 19? No, did't skate well enough
Formenton and Batherson? No, weren't physically mature enough

I think that's all he is saying

 

[God Says No]

Well if you look at it this way, Boucher skates well enough and is physically mature enough to be in the NHL. That makes it possible which in my opinion is all @RAFI BOMB is saying

Contrast that with other prospects

Could Sokolov have played at 19? No, did't skate well enough
Formenton and Batherson? No, weren't physically mature enough

I think that's all he is saying

Yeah, on paper physically he looks like he could play pro right now, but I think he'll have a rude awakening when he steps on AHL ice as he won't be able to blow up 18 year old kids anymore.

Saying all that, there is no reason for him to start in the AHL now. He needs a year of domination and play in all situations in the OHL.

 

[OD99]

Well if you look at it this way, Boucher skates well enough and is physically mature enough to be in the NHL. That makes it possible which in my opinion is all @RAFI BOMB is saying

Contrast that with other prospects

Could Sokolov have played at 19? No, did't skate well enough
Formenton and Batherson? No, weren't physically mature enough

I think that's all he is saying

That was a lot of writing to say that if true!

It seems to me he was talking about he could handle the structure and would do better at pro level.

Lots of guys are big and can skate. IMO he prob doesn't make it deep into preseason.

 

[JD1]

That was a lot of writing to say that if true!

It seems to me he was talking about he could handle the structure and would do better at pro level.

Lots of guys are big and can skate. IMO he prob doesn't make it deep into preseason.

Very few guys are both physically mature and can skate at an NHL level at 19.

 

[BondraTime]

Well if you look at it this way, Boucher skates well enough and is physically mature enough to be in the NHL. That makes it possible which in my opinion is all @RAFI BOMB is saying

Contrast that with other prospects

Could Sokolov have played at 19? No, did't skate well enough
Formenton and Batherson? No, weren't physically mature enough

I think that's all he is saying

Formenton started in the NHL at both 18 and 19, which made little sense at the time, maybe they give Boucher a game to start the year because he's in Ottawa and he needs all the confidence he can get. I don't see how they could keep Boucher up over a guy like Greig, a guy who's undoubtedly ahead of Boucher outside of size. The only guys since 2005 to start in the NHL at 19 for the Sens are Karlsson, Tkachuk, Stutzle and Formenton; even Zibanejad started his 19 year old season in the AHL until January, and I think we can all agree Boucher had the least impressive season, with by far the most to work on at lower levels than those guys.

Boucher has physicality over all those guys, and skating over Sokolov. That's about it at this point.

There is so much Boucher has to work on at the Junior level, that the NHL makes absolutely no sense.

He was drafted as a project, those guys take longer and need to be given more time to develop. He's played 55 games total, in 3 separate leagues over the past 2 seasons, and he wasn't able to jump in the way he wanted at either the NCAA or OHL, I think that's extremely agreeable.

If Boucher had not dealt with injuries and illness, and had played meaningful games over the past few seasons and done well with them, I'd agree that Boucher would have a chance to start the season in the AHL at the very least. But we all know what cards the last season, and previous one, dealt Boucher. He struggled at the NCAA level, and took the time to de-commit and move to the 67's which I think was a wise decision. He then was hit with Covid and an injury that led to ~ month of his time in the OHL lost. And then he never hit the ground running like you would hope.

This is a reset year, forget the last season, and move ahead as a leader and the best player on the 67's.

Throwing him on a 4th line in the NHL, what would that do for Boucher? We know he can skate well and hit, he doesn't need to work on those aspects of his game whatsoever. He won't be able to utilize those tools in the NHL to a level that makes it remotely worth it.

He needs to get in a groove, learn to pick his spots with running at guys, learn to find the open ice and dead zones to get his great shot off, continue to work on his game down low, start to capitalize and gain confidence with the puck on his stick. All of those things are what he will be doing with the 67's, and I am certain he will have a bounce back year that will help him moving up to the AHL next season and NHL soon after.

It's obviously possible for Boucher to be in the NHL to start the season and stay there, it wold be an extremely surprising and bad development path for him

 

[Sweatred]

Yeah, on paper physically he looks like he could play pro right now, but I think he'll have a rude awakening when he steps on AHL ice as he won't be able to blow up 18 year old kids anymore.

Saying all that, there is no reason for him to start in the AHL now. He needs a year of domination and play in all situations in the OHL.

He will blow up AHL and NHL players - there will always be ones he can’t - but tonnes he can.

 

[OD99]

He will blow up AHL and NHL players - there will always be ones he can’t - but tonnes he can.

Who is doing this on the regular in the NHL?

Nobody. He isn't some freak that is going to terrorize the NHL, he is just a guy who likes to hit and will have to learn to pick his spots in the limited ice time he will get.

Things are getting out of hand about his physical play - you still have to play hockey, or you are a liability.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion on record

"You need these guys to win. He's a man. He does everything with hard pace. He's going to dominate this year in junior. He knows, most likely, that he's going back to junior. He shoots the puck as good as any prospect and most players on our team. He finishes checks."

I hope he does put some more parts of his game together and can have dominant offensive shifts consistently.
It would be nice to see more evidence of him thinking the game at a high level as well.

I have no doubt he plays for the 67s this year. He may get a game or two if he shows he's taken a step in TC..
I don't think Belleville will be an option to start. I'd be in no rush at all.. let him develop. As of now I would say 67's this year , Belleville with a cup of coffee next year.

 

[Cosmix]

There is too much hype about Boucher at this time; let him have some time to develop and mature.

My concern is not with Boucher; it is with the GM and Scouting.

 

[BondraTime]

I believe, as I have mentioned many times, he is going to have a very good season for the 67's.

He is undoubtedly better than he showed last season.

Is he a top 10 pick? Probably not, but that doesn't really matter.

57gp 32g 34a 66p, I'd be surprised if he never had a stat-line similar to that as a 19/20 year old this season

If Kasper played, I could see Boucher putting up another ~10 points

 

[Sweatred]

I believe, as I have mentioned many times, he is going to have a very good season for the 67's.

He is undoubtedly better than he showed last season.

Is he a top 10 pick? Probably not, but that doesn't really matter.

57gp 32g 34a 66p, I'd be surprised if he never had a stat-line similar to that as a 19/20 year old this season

If Kasper played, I could see Boucher putting up another ~10 points

Id be shocked if he doesn’t make the u20 team right on schedule too…

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

He will blow up AHL and NHL players - there will always be ones he can’t - but tonnes he can.

For all the blowing up players Boucher was doing in juniors he was putting himself in positions to get blown up as well. And with the way he plays he always has a target on his back.

When juniors are able to line him up imagine fully developed and grizzled AHL and NHL vets, like they are going to take kindly to him pasting people. Boucher is not smart or hard enough to deal with that yet, nor does he need that distraction when he should be working on rounding out his game.

Not to mention his injury history. Boucher is not ready for the AHL or NHL at all even if he can skate and hit at that level. Would be dumber than rushing Lazar.

 

[Sweatred]

For all the blowing up players Boucher was doing in juniors he was putting himself in positions to get blown up as well. And with the way he plays he always has a target on his back.

When juniors are able to line him up imagine fully developed and grizzled AHL and NHL vets, like they are going to take kindly to him pasting people. Boucher is not smart or hard enough to deal with that yet, nor does he need that distraction when he should be working on rounding out his game.

Not to mention his injury history. Boucher is not ready for the AHL or NHL at all even if he can skate and hit at that level. Would be dumber than rushing Lazar.

I don’t think the leap form CHL to AHL is that big for guy with his skating and size.

Greig made the AHL looks easy two years ago at 17+ years old.

I don’t really care where Boucher goes this year … but I think their is value in playing in either league.

Who’s going to get him the puck in Ottawa ? Stonehouse ? Bellevilles centers look better IMO.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Formenton started in the NHL at both 18 and 19, which made little sense at the time, maybe they give Boucher a game to start the year because he's in Ottawa and he needs all the confidence he can get. I don't see how they could keep Boucher up over a guy like Greig, a guy who's undoubtedly ahead of Boucher outside of size. The only guys since 2005 to start in the NHL at 19 for the Sens are Karlsson, Tkachuk, Stutzle and Formenton; even Zibanejad started his 19 year old season in the AHL until January, and I think we can all agree Boucher had the least impressive season, with by far the most to work on at lower levels than those guys.

Boucher has physicality over all those guys, and skating over Sokolov. That's about it at this point.

There is so much Boucher has to work on at the Junior level, that the NHL makes absolutely no sense.

He was drafted as a project, those guys take longer and need to be given more time to develop. He's played 55 games total, in 3 separate leagues over the past 2 seasons, and he wasn't able to jump in the way he wanted at either the NCAA or OHL, I think that's extremely agreeable.

If Boucher had not dealt with injuries and illness, and had played meaningful games over the past few seasons and done well with them, I'd agree that Boucher would have a chance to start the season in the AHL at the very least. But we all know what cards the last season, and previous one, dealt Boucher. He struggled at the NCAA level, and took the time to de-commit and move to the 67's which I think was a wise decision. He then was hit with Covid and an injury that led to ~ month of his time in the OHL lost. And then he never hit the ground running like you would hope.

This is a reset year, forget the last season, and move ahead as a leader and the best player on the 67's.

Throwing him on a 4th line in the NHL, what would that do for Boucher? We know he can skate well and hit, he doesn't need to work on those aspects of his game whatsoever. He won't be able to utilize those tools in the NHL to a level that makes it remotely worth it.

He needs to get in a groove, learn to pick his spots with running at guys, learn to find the open ice and dead zones to get his great shot off, continue to work on his game down low, start to capitalize and gain confidence with the puck on his stick. All of those things are what he will be doing with the 67's, and I am certain he will have a bounce back year that will help him moving up to the AHL next season and NHL soon after.

It's obviously possible for Boucher to be in the NHL to start the season and stay there, it wold be an extremely surprising and bad development path for him

For the most part, I completely agree with what you are saying. My position on whether Boucher could play in the NHL was not an argument for that being the best place for his development. I agree with the arguments that going back to the CHL is most likely, by far the best place for his development.

In my opinion, from an athletic stand point and in terms of his skating and physicality that he has the capacity to play in the NHL. That he has good structure in his game, makes a lot of smart and simple plays, is in good positioning and has a decent set of tools. I believe his play would benefit quite a bit from the structured play at the NHL level. I wouldn't be surprised if his on ice performance looks better in the structured environment of the pros than the unstructured environment of juniors.

Now from a development standpoint, my position is much more aligned with yours. There is plenty more room for growth in his game, the junior environment allows him to take on a much more substantial role and he is permitted more room to attempt things and make mistakes. There is no real reason to rush him to the pros and the potential costs of it at this point appear to substantially outweigh the benefits.

I also agree that there are lots of other prospects that are further along in their development and potentially more capable of handling the rigors of NHL play. That it would require quite the performance from him to outcompete all of them and to take a spot at the NHL level.

That is why I stated that it is not my expectation, simply that it wouldn't surprise me if that outcome occurred. I don't anticipate that Boucher will make the Senators out of camp, I also don't anticipate that he will play any regular season games in Belleville to start the season. My expectation is Senators training camp, then maybe B Sens training camp then/or assigned to the 67s. With that said even though highly unlikely to occur if he somehow performed well enough to make the Senators out of camp, personally, I just wouldn't find it all that surprising.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I believe, as I have mentioned many times, he is going to have a very good season for the 67's.

He is undoubtedly better than he showed last season.

Is he a top 10 pick? Probably not, but that doesn't really matter.

57gp 32g 34a 66p, I'd be surprised if he never had a stat-line similar to that as a 19/20 year old this season

If Kasper played, I could see Boucher putting up another ~10 points

From the interviews that Boucher has partaken in this offseason, he seems convinced that he hasn't really demonstrated the player he is capable. He has mentioned that this offseason was to reset himself after a tough year and reiterated that he hasn't played a lot of games over the past few seasons. He did pretty much everything right this offseason. He decided to stay in Ottawa to work with the Sens development staff, he ended up living and training with two other elite prospects in Jake Sanderson and Ridly Greig.

We know from both the development camp and the US WJC evaluation camp that he was performing well and most notably scoring goals. We also know that his plan if he didn't make the 2022 summer WJC team was to return to Ottawa and continue his training with the Senators development staff and Sanderson. We also know that he has a connection wit Giroux and there is likely a chance he gets to work directly with him for the remainder of the offseason and that the Senators core is coming back to train in Ottawa part way through August and he will likely have some extended time to work with them before the rookie tournament in September and then what will be his first NHL training camp.

There are a lot of things there that could lead to a good performance next season. He is almost certainly going back to the 67's and we will see what comes from that and what kind of improvements he was able to make.

This is what Dorion said about him:

"I talked to him the other day," Senators general manager Dorion told TSN 1050 on July 14. "I said, 'Tyler, don't worry about any noise outside. When we're going to need to win the [Stanley] Cup, and we hope to get to that point, you're going to be an important part of that.'

"You need these guys to win. He's a man. He does everything with hard pace. He's going to dominate this year in junior. He knows, most likely, that he's going back to junior. He shoots the puck as good as any prospect and most players on our team. He finishes checks."

This is what Winchester said about him:

"[Boucher] is another guy who's been working really hard this summer," Senators player development coach Jesse Winchester said. "We've had a lot of contact with him and we're expecting good things from him. He's maturing, his skating has really improved and he's going to have a great year."

Boucher back in rhythm for Senators after leaving college

 

[JungleBeat]

He is? Everywhere I checked it says 6'1".

Can we go to sleep now?

Oh jheez, thought he was bigger. You’re telling me this guy smaller than Sillinger?

 

[Larionov]

Oh jheez, thought he was bigger. You’re telling me this guy smaller than Sillinger?

Yep. That's the first thing I noticed when I went to a 67's game in February to get a look in person - he's not nearly as big as you might think or hope.

Step one of Boucher's redemption tour is being a dominant first line player on what will hopefully be a much improved 67's team. (Side note - I've never felt worse for a bunch of kids than the 67's in 2020 and 2021. The pandemic robbed them at least one, maybe two Memorial Cup runs. Those kids aged out, and the junior hockey Circle of Life kicked in.)

Step two will be Fall 2023, when he will have to start earning ice time in the AHL. That's a man's league, and a huge jump from major junior. Then, and only then, can we start projecting him into a future Sens lineup.

 

[SlapJack]

I don’t think the leap form CHL to AHL is that big for guy with his skating and size.

Greig made the AHL looks easy two years ago at 17+ years old.

I don’t really care where Boucher goes this year … but I think their is value in playing in either league.

Who’s going to get him the puck in Ottawa ? Stonehouse ? Bellevilles centers look better IMO.

I don't think Grieg made the AHL "look easy", he didn't look out of place is all. Which is still an accomplishment for someone who is 18. Not sure why he needs to be 17+ though? It's 18, full stop.

 

[Icelevel]

From the interviews that Boucher has partaken in this offseason, he seems convinced that he hasn't really demonstrated the player he is capable. He has mentioned that this offseason was to reset himself after a tough year and reiterated that he hasn't played a lot of games over the past few seasons. He did pretty much everything right this offseason. He decided to stay in Ottawa to work with the Sens development staff, he ended up living and training with two other elite prospects in Jake Sanderson and Ridly Greig.

We know from both the development camp and the US WJC evaluation camp that he was performing well and most notably scoring goals. We also know that his plan if he didn't make the 2022 summer WJC team was to return to Ottawa and continue his training with the Senators development staff and Sanderson. We also know that he has a connection wit Giroux and there is likely a chance he gets to work directly with him for the remainder of the offseason and that the Senators core is coming back to train in Ottawa part way through August and he will likely have some extended time to work with them before the rookie tournament in September and then what will be his first NHL training camp.

There are a lot of things there that could lead to a good performance next season. He is almost certainly going back to the 67's and we will see what comes from that and what kind of improvements he was able to make.

This is what Dorion said about him:

This is what Winchester said about him:

Boucher back in rhythm for Senators after leaving college

Thanks Rafi. You’re one of the very few here worth reading in this subject. Appreciate the level headed reasoning.
Basically, he’s fine, give him time.
I agree with you 100% and am still excited to see him on the team when he’s ready. A year from now or 1.5-2 yrs.

 

[God Says No]

Thanks Rafi. You’re one of the very few here worth reading in this subject. Appreciate the level headed reasoning.
Basically, he’s fine, give him time.
I agree with you 100% and am still excited to see him on the team when he’s ready. A year from now or 1.5-2 yrs.

Yeah, but to counter this. Rafi has been way off many times, like pumping the tires of Kole Sherwood last offseason. Which BTW I think is a very realistic comparison to Boucher. Same size, skill set, point totals in minors, etc.

Oh jheez, thought he was bigger. You’re telling me this guy smaller than Sillinger?

Yip. He's not a physical monster. Average sized actually, and yes smaller than Sillinger.

 

[Icelevel]

Yeah, but to counter this. Rafi has been way off many times, like pumping the tires of Kole Sherwood last offseason. Which BTW I think is a very realistic comparison to Boucher. Same size, skill set, point totals in minors, etc.


Yip. He's not a physical monster. Average sized actually, and yes smaller than Sillinger.

It’s not a prediction. It’s a realistic and reasonable account of where he is at right now.
People want to label him right now as a bust or a reach or whatever. Point is.. give him time he is actually on a good track to succeed.