This continues to be one of the most laughable takes I’ve seen on this forum.
Player Discussion Ty Emberson
- Thread starter Bryanbryoil
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And Stecher gives up 3/60, while Ekholm gives up 10/60. Is Emberson twice as good of a pker as Ekholm? Is Stecher the best pker on the team, and possibly in the league? Hell Slavin on the league best PK is at 6ga/60, maybe theyd trade us him for Emberson?!? Or is that stat maybe a bit flawed? I have my thoughts on why his number is better than players that are obviously better than him, but I'll let you think on it as to why that is, or you can call him the best pker in the league. Idc.
And check your reading comprehension. I literally said he wasn't the problem, but that using pk time as a argument for why he is amazing doesn't really add up when our PK hasn't been great overall. If you wanna take your one stat and assume he's one of the best PKers in the league, go ahead.
Fourier
Registered User
I wasn't suggesting you made that claim. My response was to BBO's post in isolation.
That said I am not sure I would say Vinny was better. They are very different players with different skills.
People were worried about losing Vinny on the pk. In this respect Emberson has done extremely well surprisingly. Last year Vinny played 159 minutes on the pk and with him on the ice the team gave up goals at a rate of 8.27GA/60. This year Emberson has been on for 72 minutes so far and his GA/60 is 5.0. And that is despite the fact that the Oilers pk% this year so far is worse than it was over the full season last year. Both players of course have benefitted playing with Ekholm on the pk. And with him on the ice the numbers are similar.
5 vs 5 Vinny has a big edged in GA/60 at 1.71 to 2.81. Though Emberson's numbers are skewed by the first couple of months. Since Dec 1 he is at 2.4 GA/60. Both guys have definitely been sheltered with mostly weaker opposition though Vinny did play a bit more vs mid tier competition.
Where I think Emberson is a clear upgrade on Vinny is with the puck on his stick.
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Fourier
Registered User
All these stats are noisy. This is especially true when sample size is small as it generally is with the pk. I think everyone knows that. (Stecher's TOI makes his numbers pretty much meaningless. )
But they do add context. In fact as a pair Emberson's number one partner has been Ekholm and right now they seem to be the choice to play vs the oppositions best. And together their GA/60 is a very good 4.34. But again the sample size is small at only 50 minutes. Looking at other numbers it is pretty clear that Emberson has benefitted from Ekholm's presence and the fact that they became a pair at a time when the Oilers pp as a whole has been much much better. But no matter how you cut it, he is very much keeping his head above water in this role.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
The Oilers give up more than a full goal more per 60 minutes with Emberson on the ice at 5v5 compared to Desharnais last season. The offense is a saw off too, Desharnais had 11 points in 78 games last season. Emberson has 6 points in 40 games.
For our regular 6 d-men Emberson is worst in both GF/60 and GA/60. The only two d-men who have worse results than Emberson on our team this season are Dermott and Brown.
McDNicks17
Moderator
I think raw goals is kind of pointless to look at.
Emberson has an .894 onSV%(and it was something hilarious like .700 early in the season) compared to Desharnais' .931 onSV% last year.
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
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Ceci was solid in his first season here and then his level of play sank along with Nurse's. Neither are fit for Nurse's partner on the 2nd pairing, but I would take Emberson over Ceci all day on the 3rd pairing at 1/3 the price to boot.
It's not even debatable. Emberson over Ceci.
Ceci isn't the same player he once was.
Fans get attached to players. Let their emotions get involved.
94 Oil Drops
Admirer of cinema, history, and hockey.
SwedishFire
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
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He can absolutly be that guy, but needs more seasoning. He is that player that will get steady when he has 5-6 years of NHL experience.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
Maybe, but he needs to move the puck better and have better offensive instincts for that, I'm not certain they're there, but he's a solid player who I hope the extend soon.
Definitely getting better each day. He needs to get better transitioning skating backwards to forwards. Seems to get caught "flatfooted" every second game.
TheNumber4
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2011
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Yeh that’s how I see it too. He will be limited by his offence and puck moving to be our answer as at 4RHD. That said, last game was one of his more impressive offensive showings. But if you look at Embersons profile, offence has just never been part of his game. I think he’ll be a defensive defenceman in his career like a Staois. And that’s fine for our 3rd pair.
He's a solid number 6 and that is a huge win. Obviously he's not an offensive guy, nor do we want to be.
What is desharnais ga/60 this year?
Emberson looks like he is settling into his role well.
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
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It seems too perfect for our D to involve a trade for a 2nd pair, with Emberson a fixture on the bottom pair with Kulak, and Stecher as the extra D, and heck even Brown as the #8 if we are in the playoffs and don't have roster restrictions
bobbythebrain
Registered User
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Dazed and Confused
Ludicrous speed, GO!
The fact that only Stecher's minutes got slashed for Brown shows what the pecking order is on the back end.
I still think a good next step for Emberson to grow into Stecher's role, where he gets to nibble on top 4 minutes, but isn't overexposed as Kulak jumps in when needed.
Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Emberson/Kulak
Kulak-Stecher
I still think a good next step for Emberson to grow into Stecher's role, where he gets to nibble on top 4 minutes, but isn't overexposed as Kulak jumps in when needed.
Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Emberson/Kulak
Kulak-Stecher
bucks_oil
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2005
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???
Don’t we still award wins for raw goals, or did we switch to PDO or something?
All of the things my defenders do influence my ability to make saves, to suggest otherwise is redonkulous. It is akin to suggesting that all players are the same and have no influence on the game.
What do you think it was like to stand in front of the crease when Desharnais was on the ice? With respect, would you reasonably expect the same with Emberson?
McDNicks17
Moderator
Well, the argument you’d be making is Desharnais is good at increasing onSV%, but he has by far the worst on the Canucks, so does that sound likely?
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
Desharnais is Kostin 2.0. Really nice guy and I'm happy he got his bag, but I'm thrilled he didn't get it from Edmonton. That contract never had a chance.
I had a few beers in the summer with a Nuck fan friend that is actually a rare reasonable one. He was thinking that Desharnais and Forbort were gonna make a nasty shut down pair.
Told him that it would probably take him until November 1 to realize that this just wasn't going to be the case haha. He currently texts me constantly about how much Desharnais sucks.
bucks_oil
Registered User
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No, that is not the argument I am making. If you re-read my post you'll notice two things:
1). I did not wade into the Emberson vs Desharnais debate. I was a Desharnais fan, but I can see that Emberson is growing well into his own role.
2) I very specifically called you out on your disregard for the actual statistics that determine game outcome. And then pointing to on-ice SPCT to disregard his performance... I actually consider on-ice SPCT to be one of the BEST predictors of who is a good defensive defender. If you've played, you know your goalie (and coach) says things like: "let me see the puck, box them out, push them wide, clear the rebounds"... all of that increases save percentage.
Desharnais was a round peg in a round hole in Edmonton, and he performed very well defensively in his role. The stats supported that last year. You can't just disregard them because they don't suit your narrative. When he was in our zone, IMO, by eye test, he was right up there with Ekholm as the best defensively... very active stick, huge wingspan, and people did not camp out in front of our goalies... plenty of shots from the perimeter. It is therefore NOT AT ALL SURPRISING to me that the stats say his goalies had a 930 spct with him on the ice. Heck, I'd probably have an 890.
My commentary on his play last year is not the same as me espousing him as a fully established, consistent year-over-year and in all situations defender. I haven't followed his play in Vancouver this year, I don't know how they are using him and so no... I have no reason to suggest the poor stats this year are lying about his play... maybe they are also true.
One thing to note about Desharnais usage last year is that Knobloch heavily skewed it to in-zone starts, where rushes against were limited. As we know, off the rush, in the neutral zone, that's where Desharnais lack of speed got slaughtered when Woody was coaching.
