Player Discussion Ty Emberson

[McAsuno]

isn't this what you want out of your 3rd pairing though???? I dont get what you getting at here.

Don't mind JTS. He tends to act like a buzzkill lol.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Here is one of my complaints about people who tweet stuff like that. There is no context. Emberson is averaging 14 minutes a game or 3rd line minutes and he is not usually on the ice vs the other teams top 6. For me that needs to be factored into how the numbers need to be looked at

You mean our third pairing D, is being deployed like a third pairing D?

 

[Jumptheshark]

isn't this what you want out of your 3rd pairing though???? I dont get what you getting at here.

He is not playing against their top lines

 

[Jumptheshark]

Don't mind JTS. He tends to act like a buzzkill lol.

context and perspective. As long as we do not ask too much of him it will be okay

 

[McAsuno]

context and perspective. As long as we do not ask too much of him it will be okay

I'm just glad we have a guy who doesn't bleed scoring chances against on the back end. Emberson's been solid.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He is not playing against their top lines

Most 3rd pairings don’t.

Why are you holding it against him.

I understand your need to be a contrarian

 

[BarDownBobo]

hes played well enough lately that we can allow him to get a new number cause 49 is ass

He wore 49 with the USNTDP, Tucson, Hartford and now here so it seems it’s his number of choice.

 

[McDoused]

Most bottom pairing D arent difference makers.

If the bottom pairing D is a difference maker its usually because they suck and lead to losses.

Exactly. All you want from your 3rd pair is to go out there and try not to get caved in. I wasn't a big fan of Emberson early but he's seemed to settle in just go about his business. He checks a lot of boxes:

1. He's at an affordable capt hit
2. Doesn't take a bunch of dumb penalties
3. Doesn't cheat by making risky plays
4. He's hard to play against.
5. His hits
6. Has good defensive metrics

I mean don't get me wrong, I don't see top 4 upside but that's not necessary a bad thing. He's just a hard working, solid player. Nothing wrong with that, you need those kinds of players on our depth charts. He seems like an every day NHLer who can carve out a career for himself.

I'd rather have Emberson at 950k than Desharnais at 2M in the same role and I liked Vinny.

 

[Jarvi]

Gotta say, kinda disappointed in him. I definitely had too high of expectations of this player heading into the season just going off looking at the stats. I thought there was a decent chance at him playing top 4, with almost guaranteed to be a good #6 if not. I think he has been ok in a #6 role, and definitely not top 4 worthy so far. That said, with talks of an extension coming, I am definitely on board to retain him for however long if it comes in cheap. Like under 1.5m ideally. My expectations were probably too high.

Maybe my issue is more with Knoblauch. I have very much disagreed with his lineup decisions lately. I would like to see Emberson stapled to Ekholm for an extended stretch. They have played only 26 minutes together at ES, ridiculous imo. It seems obvious to put the green rookie with our best vet Dman who can anchor a pairing at both ends and who helped Bouch become a premier Dman in this league. It also forces us to get a good long look at Bouchard without as much of a safety blanket which will help us when it comes time to sign that big ticket extension, possibly. Furthermore, I think Ekholm could use a bit of a minutes reduction solely to keep him as fresh as possible for playoffs. It just seems an obvious route to explore more, before we invest significant assets into a trade for the defense.

Kulak/Nurse-Bouch
Ekholm-Emberson
Nurse/Kulak-Stecher

Looking at line combo stats, that makes most sense as Kulak-Stecher have not been good together. Bouch has been good with Kulak and not much of a sample with Nurse, so thats something else that can be explored.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Gotta say, kinda disappointed in him. I definitely had too high of expectations of this player heading into the season just going off looking at the stats. I thought there was a decent chance at him playing top 4, with almost guaranteed to be a good #6 if not. I think he has been ok in a #6 role, and definitely not top 4 worthy so far. That said, with talks of an extension coming, I am definitely on board to retain him for however long if it comes in cheap. Like under 1.5m ideally. My expectations were probably too high.

Maybe my issue is more with Knoblauch. I have very much disagreed with his lineup decisions lately. I would like to see Emberson stapled to Ekholm for an extended stretch. They have played only 26 minutes together at ES, ridiculous imo. It seems obvious to put the green rookie with our best vet Dman who can anchor a pairing at both ends and who helped Bouch become a premier Dman in this league. It also forces us to get a good long look at Bouchard without as much of a safety blanket which will help us when it comes time to sign that big ticket extension, possibly. Furthermore, I think Ekholm could use a bit of a minutes reduction solely to keep him as fresh as possible for playoffs. It just seems an obvious route to explore more, before we invest significant assets into a trade for the defense.

Kulak/Nurse-Bouch
Ekholm-Emberson
Nurse/Kulak-Stecher

Looking at line combo stats, that makes most sense as Kulak-Stecher have not been good together. Bouch has been good with Kulak and not much of a sample with Nurse, so thats something else that can be explored.

Why would SJ trade a legit top 4 D in his early 20's for Ceci and a 3rd? He was relatively unknown and looks the part of a legit NHL D that helps on the PK and plays a hard but simple game. He could still grow into a top 4 role in time, but for now he is a solid piece moving forward and hopefully we sign him on the cheap before he gets even better.

 

[Jarvi]

Why would SJ trade a legit top 4 D in his early 20's for Ceci and a 3rd? He was relatively unknown and looks the part of a legit NHL D that helps on the PK and plays a hard but simple game. He could still grow into a top 4 role in time, but for now he is a solid piece moving forward and hopefully we sign him on the cheap before he gets even better.

He played good minutes in SJ, and the stats say he showed well. Put him on a better team and some development over the summer and thinking there was a shot he could work in the top4, as a clear #4 guy, was not unrealistic. But I'm not even disappointed in that, as I said I thought there was a shot he played top 4 but not a guarantee. Where the disappointment comes is that he isnt exactly great on the bottom pairing either. Like he is ok, but not stellar or anything. Pretty comparable, if not slightly worse than what Vinny showed last season, and he ended up a scratch in the playoffs. Our PK is bottom 10, which I'm not saying is his fault, but it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement that he plays there; especially when the other RHD options are Stecher and Bouchard most nights so he doesn't have a ton of competition for those RHD minutes.

I agree in hoping we sign him cheap as I still think there is some more for Ty to give. But as I said, I think my number is probably lower than what most would agree on. Vinny got 2m and the Canucks already want to turf him, for example.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Gotta say, kinda disappointed in him. I definitely had too high of expectations of this player heading into the season just going off looking at the stats. I thought there was a decent chance at him playing top 4, with almost guaranteed to be a good #6 if not. I think he has been ok in a #6 role, and definitely not top 4 worthy so far. That said, with talks of an extension coming, I am definitely on board to retain him for however long if it comes in cheap. Like under 1.5m ideally. My expectations were probably too high.

Maybe my issue is more with Knoblauch. I have very much disagreed with his lineup decisions lately. I would like to see Emberson stapled to Ekholm for an extended stretch. They have played only 26 minutes together at ES, ridiculous imo. It seems obvious to put the green rookie with our best vet Dman who can anchor a pairing at both ends and who helped Bouch become a premier Dman in this league. It also forces us to get a good long look at Bouchard without as much of a safety blanket which will help us when it comes time to sign that big ticket extension, possibly. Furthermore, I think Ekholm could use a bit of a minutes reduction solely to keep him as fresh as possible for playoffs. It just seems an obvious route to explore more, before we invest significant assets into a trade for the defense.

Kulak/Nurse-Bouch
Ekholm-Emberson
Nurse/Kulak-Stecher

Looking at line combo stats, that makes most sense as Kulak-Stecher have not been good together. Bouch has been good with Kulak and not much of a sample with Nurse, so thats something else that can be explored.

Emberson with a 30 game NHL sample was being grossly overrated by some based on a limited expanded stats line to walk into a top 4 responsibility and toi role on a Cup contender. This just wasn't going to happen. Knoblauch moved off that quickly and hit gold in deploying veteran Kulak into the 2RD function. This has likely been the coaching staff's best decision this season which has covered off the big hole at 2RD.

Emberson reset as a 3RD has been solid facing right size competition and with confidence is growing his game as a top pair penalty killer. Getting game reps he's becoming a reliable, inexpensive third pair d-man with some edge in his game. I don't see the offensive upside to become an every day second pair but that's okay. Funny that Spector in a recent column suggested Emberson was closer to 5'11" than his listed 6'2". Watching Emberson I kept thinking man he looks smaller than six foot two.

He's been a good fit for a team that needed to squeeze some cap savings. A known player on-ice and character wise to the head coach. Finding his role to deliver good support help.

 

[Spawn]

I feel like I’m watching a different player than some of you. IMO he’s been a downgrade on what Desharnais brought to the 3rd pair last regular season. Hopefully the fact that he’s a better skater means he won’t get as badly exposed once the competition ramps up come playoff time, but I’m not really sold on him as an every day regular.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He played good minutes in SJ, and the stats say he showed well. Put him on a better team and some development over the summer and thinking there was a shot he could work in the top4, as a clear #4 guy, was not unrealistic. But I'm not even disappointed in that, as I said I thought there was a shot he played top 4 but not a guarantee. Where the disappointment comes is that he isnt exactly great on the bottom pairing either. Like he is ok, but not stellar or anything. Pretty comparable, if not slightly worse than what Vinny showed last season, and he ended up a scratch in the playoffs. Our PK is bottom 10, which I'm not saying is his fault, but it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement that he plays there; especially when the other RHD options are Stecher and Bouchard most nights so he doesn't have a ton of competition for those RHD minutes.

I agree in hoping we sign him cheap as I still think there is some more for Ty to give. But as I said, I think my number is probably lower than what most would agree on. Vinny got 2m and the Canucks already want to turf him, for example.

Emberson is giving up 5ga/60 on the PK, while playing the 2nd most amount of PK minutes.

He is not the issue.

 

[Dirk Dangler]

Here is one of my complaints about people who tweet stuff like that. There is no context. Emberson is averaging 14 minutes a game or 3rd line minutes and he is not usually on the ice vs the other teams top 6. For me that needs to be factored into how the numbers need to be looked at

I think you’re reading too far into the data and exaggerating what it says. Neither the list or anyone else is claiming Emberson or Lauzon for that matter are best in the league, top-tier, defensive defensemen. All it says that they are playing successful defence within the roles they are given. That’s a win. Emberson is a reliable bottom pairing D and has potential to possibly be more.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I feel like I’m watching a different player than some of you. IMO he’s been a downgrade on what Desharnais brought to the 3rd pair last regular season. Hopefully the fact that he’s a better skater means he won’t get as badly exposed once the competition ramps up come playoff time, but I’m not really sold on him as an every day regular.

Vinny was exposed in the playoffs. Vinny would use more stickwork around the net and improved his passing, but IMO Emberson is a better and more well rounded guy than Vinny was for us.

 

[TheNumber4]

Emberson keeps surprising me. I was completely fine with him being a new age Kris Russel or Staois. And quiet stay at home defensive specialist. But last night he had himself quite an offensive showing. Jumping into rushes well. Getting open for passes. Smart shots on net.

 

[Fourier]

Vinny was exposed in the playoffs. Vinny would use more stickwork around the net and improved his passing, but IMO Emberson is a better and more well rounded guy than Vinny was for us.

He's also younger and an RFA at the end of the year. Vinny may well have been better to stay at a lower salary. He may well have ended his NHL career prematurely by moving on.

 

[McJadeddog]

He's also younger and an RFA at the end of the year. Vinny may well have been better to stay at a lower salary. He may well have ended his NHL career prematurely by moving on.

Yeah you have to take into account the salary. Emberson is half the salary now, and likely 500k or so less next year as well (assuming a $1.5 M next contract for Emberson, which might be on the high side, but we are guessing right now). Emberson is 24 years old, vs Vinny at 28. Vinny is a finished product and Emberson still has a little more room to grow. It's an easy decision when you take into account salary and age, as you have to.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Odd time for this take, considering the Chicago game was one of his better of the season.

Imo there's a lot of Kulak in his game. Nothing flashy, but he's near automatic in the plays he should make, and there aren't many exploitable elements in his game: great speed, decent size with a willingness to battle, comfortable handling the puck, and remains cool under pressure.


After putting too much on him at the start (top 4 in a new system with Nurse who was coming back from injury), I think they've handled him well. Just 3rd pairing minutes to start, now he's a mainstay on the top unit PK, and I wouldn't be surprised if he started to work his way into the Kulak/Stecher rotation for the 2nd pairing minutes over the next month.

 

[Spawn]

He's also younger and an RFA at the end of the year. Vinny may well have been better to stay at a lower salary. He may well have ended his NHL career prematurely by moving on.

Im not saying id rather have signed Desharnais to the deal he got. That was a terrible contract.

Im saying that Desharnais last year is better than Emberson this year in my opinion. We were sold by some that he could fill in for Ceci, instead he hasn’t even been an upgrade on our 3rd pair RHD.

 

[NeverForget06]

Im not saying id rather have signed Desharnais to the deal he got. That was a terrible contract.

Im saying that Desharnais last year is better than Emberson this year in my opinion. We were sold by some that he could fill in for Ceci, instead he hasn’t even been an upgrade on our 3rd pair RHD.

Is there anything that you can really point to that suggests this is the case?

In my mind Emberson is a huge improvement over Vinnie. That guy could not skate or make a breakout pass. Emberson is confident with the puck. Emberson has also been able to solidfy himself as one of our best penalty killers in his pairing with Ekholm.

I think it was a bit insane to expect a guy who had like 40 NHL games played to be a top 4 dman and measure up to an NHL vet in Cody Ceci who has played like 800 Nhl games. For defenceman especially development just doesn't work that way. Only the real studs, like a Brock Faber, can really step into top 4 minutes with ease with no NHL experience.

I find Emberson to be a refresh on the back end. He plays the way that the NHL game is played now - good skater, can make a pass, always in the right position.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Im not saying id rather have signed Desharnais to the deal he got. That was a terrible contract.

Im saying that Desharnais last year is better than Emberson this year in my opinion. We were sold by some that he could fill in for Ceci, instead he hasn’t even been an upgrade on our 3rd pair RHD.

He's better than Ceci.

Ceci was just forced to play 2nd pairing minutes because the coach was dumb.

 

[Stoneman89]

He is not playing against their top lines

So what, I think he's doing a great job at where he's stationed. A very pleasant surprise. It's up to Bowman now to get another 4-5 dman.

 

[CupofOil]

Im not saying id rather have signed Desharnais to the deal he got. That was a terrible contract.

Im saying that Desharnais last year is better than Emberson this year in my opinion. We were sold by some that he could fill in for Ceci, instead he hasn’t even been an upgrade on our 3rd pair RHD.

Emberson has been solid, not sure where you're getting this from. Knoblauch had so much trust with him that he had him out there killing the penalty late in the game.
His +/- is a bit skewed, like a few others on this team, because it was a struggle to start the season but he's settled in nicely in the 3rd pair role and appears to be getting more comfortable as the season goes on.

We have to remember that this is still a young player, he's still growing and learning so some patience is required which I know is hard for some people. I still say there's more upside to him than just 3rd pairing placeholder. I think he has some decent skill that is untapped and we see flashes of it as his confidence grows to carry the puck more and jump up in the play.