Two years later: Revisiting the Kotkaniemi - Dvorak swap

How do you feel about the Kotkaniemi - Dvorak swap that Bergevin implemented two years later?


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GrandBison

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Jul 1, 2019
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I'm terribly confused by how you wrote this.

Are you suggesting that pts/60 is useless in comparing players because it is influenced by player performance? Would not player performance be the 1st and most important thing in a comparison? Doubly so because pts/60 actually does take some measure of extra variable into account instead of simply pure performance? By what metrics are we allowed to compare players in your view?
Sorry, English is not my first language. What I'm saying is any stat that suggest that playing more minutes per game is a deterrent is actually not a good stat to compare players. Game per game Ice time is often a good measure of when players are actually having a good game, if you consider that coaches take good decisions.
 

Frank Drebin

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I find someone for cheap in UFA and tear it all down. There’s no need for finding a replacement the summer of 2021. The team was going to suck anyways.
While true, that's a tough sell 2 months after your team just made the scf.
 

Heffyhoof

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Jan 17, 2016
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Sorry, English is not my first language. What I'm saying is any stat that suggest that playing more minutes per game is a deterrent is actually not a good stat to compare players. Game per game Ice time is often a good measure of when players are actually having a good game, if you consider that coaches take good decisions.
Thanks for clarifying!
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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And younger players having Dvorak and Evans as mentors, great idea, great idea !

I tought Dano sucked in 2021, according to what I've read here, so better let him walk, unless he ask 3m.

After 2 years of success in LA, the narrative changed, Dano is good but not for us. Let Kings have him, improve and have a Cup Contender window again. All this when in Habs territory we suck so much but not quite enough to draft Bedard. But we drafted #1 the wrong year. On top of that, the #1 we had have fans being hard criticism, calling him a bust every week and the same goes for Reinbaker.

If you want to rebuilt propelly, why not trade Suzuki or Caufield or Ghule? Or 3 of them. Isn't the motus operandi of a rebuilt? None of them are true first line stuff anyway. We need players the same level as Crosby, Ovy or McDavid. I mean, Suzuki, Caufield or Ghule are not any better than Dano on a packed team like LA Kings. Kopitar is better than Suzuki, Kempe is better than Caufield and Doughty is better than Ghule. Dano is a perfect fit for Kings. Suzuki I'm not sure he would fit as well as Dano.
I mean… I’d like to reply to you seriously here. But do you really think Dvorak and Evans are the leaders on this club?

Did you want a rebuild? If no, why not? If you did… this is what it looks like.
 
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Catanddogguitarrr

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I mean… I’d like to reply to you seriously here. But do you really think Dvorak and Evans are the leaders on this club?

Did you want a rebuild? If no, why not? If you did… this is what it looks like.
I would like vets to be better mentors to kids to developp than Dvorak and Evans. Or at least have someone who smile a little bit and give something else to the fans. Monahan is perfect in that role and it was a chance to have him and not forget the 1rst round that comes with. And maybe another 1rst round if he's getting traded.

But that rebuilt looks sad and depressing. It's like if you have to do an underpaid job for 3 years, it can be fun if you learn something interresting that keep the flame or have fun with collegues making jokes. If you work underpaid and it's boring like hell, well that looks like what fans have to endure in this rebuilt.

Who keeps the flame (or the fun to watch) and who smile in this boring team? Only Suzuki, Caufield, Xkaj, Slaf, Ghule, Matheson, Monty and Savard seems to smile or keep interrest watching that team. That leaves 3/4 of the team uninterresting to watch.

Let's face it : the rebuilt is painful to endure. We need pom-pom girls dancing, Chantal Macchabe making moonwalk or Hughes making a filthy joke or I don't know, someone help this team please.
 

nhlfan9191

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While true, that's a tough sell 2 months after your team just made the scf.
We limped into the playoffs that year and the guys who did the heavy lifting in that cup run, including the two core pieces the team was built around for years were basically retired due to injury. And we knew that in the summer leading into the next season. The team was only going one way.
 
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Frank Drebin

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We limped into the playoffs that year and the guys who did the heavy lifting in that cup run, including the two core pieces the team was built around for years were basically retired due to injury. And we knew that in the summer leading into the next season. The team was only going one way.
I agree, but the general fanbase doesn't look at the team the way HFboarders do. It should have been done, but it would have been a tough sell.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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I would like vets to be better mentors to kids to developp than Dvorak and Evans. Or at least have someone who smile a little bit and give something else to the fans. Monahan is perfect in that role and it was a chance to have him and not forget the 1rst round that comes with. And maybe another 1rst round if he's getting traded.
Good thing we have Suzuki then…
But that rebuilt looks sad and depressing. It's like if you have to do an underpaid job for 3 years, it can be fun if you learn something interresting that keep the flame or have fun with collegues making jokes. If you work underpaid and it's boring like hell, well that looks like what fans have to endure in this rebuilt.
This is what all rebuilds look like.

You think it’s sad and depressing to have a loaded pipeline of blueline prospects? Is it depressing to have young forwards like CC, Slaf, Dach and Newhook all on the sunny side of 25? Is it sad that we’ll have another top ten pick this year?

Who keeps the flame (or the fun to watch) and who smile in this boring team? Only Suzuki, Caufield, Xkaj, Slaf, Ghule, Matheson, Monty and Savard seems to smile or keep interrest watching that team. That leaves 3/4 of the team uninterresting to watch.
Nobody is forcing you to watch anything. I’d say it’s been pretty exciting hockey though. And personally I love getting to watch players like Slaf and Guehle develop.
Let's face it : the rebuilt is painful to endure. We need pom-pom girls dancing, Chantal Macchabe making moonwalk or Hughes making a filthy joke or I don't know, someone help this team please.
Personally I’d rather do this then go load up on players like Gionta and Gomez in the name of trying to squeeze into 8th place.
 

CHwest

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It's not KK for Dvorak. It's 1st and second for Dvorak. Almost as good as Drouin swap.
It's up there, some of the bin-mans best work. I always imagine him backing out of a dumpster looking like this, with Dvo in tow.
1703374273374.png
 

EXPOS123

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Jun 29, 2010
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People should rewatch the year end presser . It was clear as day that Bozovin was not happy with KK.

If that was the case, wouldn’t it have just been wiser to trade him?

I’m pretty sure we could have landed a pretty good player for something like our first round pick + KK.
 
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Frank Drebin

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People should rewatch the year end presser . It was clear as day that Bozovin was not happy with KK.

If that was the case, wouldn’t it have just been wiser to trade him?

I’m pretty sure we could have landed a pretty good player for something like our first round pick + KK.
Late first plus third is a fair return for a kid coming off 6 and 5 goal seasons
 
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Catanddogguitarrr

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Good thing we have Suzuki then…

This is what all rebuilds look like.

You think it’s sad and depressing to have a loaded pipeline of blueline prospects? Is it depressing to have young forwards like CC, Slaf, Dach and Newhook all on the sunny side of 25? Is it sad that we’ll have another top ten pick this year?


Nobody is forcing you to watch anything. I’d say it’s been pretty exciting hockey though. And personally I love getting to watch players like Slaf and Guehle develop.

Personally I’d rather do this then go load up on players like Gionta and Gomez in the name of trying to squeeze into 8th place.
I do instinctively the same as you, I watch Slaf, CC, Ghu and Su, also Mon and Stru and my eyes and memory erase Evans, Dvo, Arm, Gal, Har and Stephens. After the game I don't remember any of them. And why would I care?

But true Slaf and other youngs are interresting to watch, can't wait Dach next year and who we'll draft next spring. The probable new players in Mailloux, Hutson and Beck.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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I do instinctively the same as you, I watch Slaf, CC, Ghu and Su, also Mon and Stru and my eyes and memory erase Evans, Dvo, Arm, Gal, Har and Stephens. After the game I don't remember any of them. And why would I care?

But true Slaf and other youngs are interresting to watch, can't wait Dach next year and who we'll draft next spring. The probable new players in Mailloux, Hutson and Beck.
Enjoy the younger players. I remember enjoying the early days of PK/Price. It’s cool to watch them develop. We’re going to have one of the best bluelines in the league.
 
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nhlfan9191

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Enjoy the younger players. I remember enjoying the early days of PK/Price. It’s cool to watch them develop. We’re going to have one of the best bluelines in the league.
We don’t have anyone that sticks out remotely as much as Price and Subban did in 2011. They were only 23 and 21 back then as well.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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We don’t have anyone that sticks out remotely as much as Price and Subban did in 2011. They were only 23 and 21 back then as well.
Hutson has just broken everyone’s record in the minors. So yeah, he sticks out every bit as much as any blueliner coming up.

And Subban was only one guy. We’ve got Hutson, Guehle, Mailloux and RB not to mention guys like Struble and Baron. Even if Subban is better than any of these guys (PK was a legit HOF talent) as a whole this group kicks the crap out of anything we’ve had for at least thirty years. It’s a great group.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Hutson has just broken everyone’s record in the minors. So yeah, he sticks out every bit as much as any blueliner coming up.

And Subban was only one guy. We’ve got Hutson, Guehle, Mailloux and RB not to mention guys like Struble and Baron. Even if Subban is better than any of these guys (PK was a legit HOF talent) as a whole this group kicks the crap out of anything we’ve had for at least thirty years. It’s a great group.
Even if it's true, one of these young D might have to be traded like what happened with Romanv to bring Dach. So that tells that up front the forward group isn't very promising or at least needs another addition or two. And one of these D will have to be traded, so that leaves a margin of uncertainty in the final picture.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Enjoy the younger players. I remember enjoying the early days of PK/Price. It’s cool to watch them develop. We’re going to have one of the best bluelines in the league.
When PK/Price came, the team was making the PO one year out of 2. There was what we could call a team. Nobody liked that team but they were not humiliated like what we see from the last 2 years. How PK and Price would perform and developp if they were in a sad and abandonned team like Yotes or Sabres?
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Even if it's true, one of these young D might have to be traded like what happened with Romanv to bring Dach. So that tells that up front the forward group isn't very promising or at least needs another addition or two. And one of these D will have to be traded, so that leaves a margin of uncertainty in the final picture.
We’ll have to deal off some D regardless. There are only so many slots.

I’m more bullish on our forwards than you. Dach, Slaf, CC, Nick, Roy and Newhook isn’t bad.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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When PK/Price came, the team was making the PO one year out of 2. There was what we could call a team. Nobody liked that team but they were not humiliated like what we see from the last 2 years. How PK and Price would perform and developp if they were in a sad and abandonned team like Yotes or Sabres?
Right, we’d finish 9th and get mid picks. There was no plan at all and our development sucked.
 

nhlfan9191

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Hutson has just broken everyone’s record in the minors. So yeah, he sticks out every bit as much as any blueliner coming up.

And Subban was only one guy. We’ve got Hutson, Guehle, Mailloux and RB not to mention guys like Struble and Baron. Even if Subban is better than any of these guys (PK was a legit HOF talent) as a whole this group kicks the crap out of anything we’ve had for at least thirty years. It’s a great group.
I’m not saying we don’t have prospects that could work out. But there’s a whole lot of chance with them. We knew at a very young age that we had super stars with Price and Subban. Hopefully Slafkovsky, Hutson, and whoever else become those players but as of now, a lot has to go right.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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We’ll have to deal off some D regardless. There are only so many slots.

I’m more bullish on our forwards than you. Dach, Slaf, CC, Nick, Roy and Newhook isn’t bad.
There is still that spark missing, the game changer with extraordinary skating skills and finishing touch. I know CC skate fast but not like Naslund, Courtnall or Bure. Beck might become the expert defensive center but I doubt he become as good as Carbonneau, Pleks or Danault. Leafs and Oilers have the finest scoring forwards but their team sucks in defense, they need a defensive squad like Danault, or two first lines that does everything 200 feet like Bergeron and Kreji in Boston. Roy might become a winger in that mold but I'm waiting for the center who takes charge of the checking duty. I wanted Gaucher at the time but he was gone when Habs had to pick.
 
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