Turcotte- time to worry?

[kilowatt]

Vilardi with the back injury, Turcotte with mono/covid/concussions, Byfield with covid and injury.....Kings first rounders are much like it's power play.....lifeless, possibly cursed.

kupari too. torn acl.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Don't forget Clarke's knee injury too!

 

[Lt Dan]

Don't forget Clarke's knee injury too!

Clarke be like

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

It's like showing up to someone's funeral to talk shit.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Trevor Moore.

 

[lumbergh]

Trevor Moore.

Moooooooooore!

 

[2-4 Slashin]

This not a run and gun team. That is a pure offensive talent trick. This team, for better or for worse and after 3 coaches, is still a heavy forcheck puck possession team.

That style is learned. it’s not really an innate skill set. If you want to see the kids thrive quickly, we either need to:

1) change the team concept

2) draft to our style of play

3)Give these talented kids time to learn this team mindset and not toss them out because they’re not scoring in droves.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

This not a run and gun team. That is a pure offensive talent trick. This team, for better or for worse and after 3 coaches, is still a heavy forcheck puck possession team.

That style is learned. it’s not really an innate skill set. If you want to see the kids thrive quickly, we either need to:

1) change the team concept

2) draft to our style of play

3)Give these talented kids time to learn this team mindset and not toss them out because they’re not scoring in droves.

That is demonstrably false. The Kings were one of the best teams in the league this year at generating shots off the rush.

 

[bmr]

That is demonstrably false. The Kings were one of the best teams in the league this year at generating shots off the rush.

View attachment 548979View attachment 548982View attachment 548983View attachment 548984

Major improvement 5v5 for this team. If we can improve the special teams next year that will help tremendously.

 

[Herby]

That is demonstrably false. The Kings were one of the best teams in the league this year at generating shots off the rush.

View attachment 548979View attachment 548982View attachment 548983View attachment 548984

It's also kind of funny how TMac gets this reputation on this board that he is the second coming of Jacques Lemaire or something. This guy was in charge of Detroit's PP and forwards as an assistant coach, and they had the best PP in the league.

As an NHL head coach here are the offensive rankings of his teams.

2008-2009 Sharks - 10th (19th year before he took over)
2009-2010 Sharks - 4th
2010-2011 Sharks - 6th
2011-2012 Sharks - 11th
2012-2013 Sharks- 23rd
2013-2014 Sharks - 5th
2014-2015 Sharks - 17th

2015-2016 Oilers - 27th (26th year before he took over)
2016-2017 Oilers - 7th
2017-2018 Oilers - 19th

2019-2020 Kings - 30th (30th the year before he took over)
2020-2021 Kings - 27th
2021-2022 Kings - 20th

I'm not saying he is some offensive genius, but to place the blame on him for the inability to turn the stats you posted into offensive results is a bit of a stretch. If this team could actually draft players who can generate offense we wouldn't be in this situation. The belief about Kings curse or Kings tax only exists because the Kings have been arguably the worst team in the NHL the last decade at introducing top 6 forwards onto the roster.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's also kind of funny how TMac gets this reputation on this board that he is the second coming of Jacques Lemaire or something. This guy was in charge of Detroit's PP and forwards as an assistant coach, and they had the best PP in the league.

As an NHL head coach here are the offensive rankings of his teams.

2008-2009 Sharks - 10th (19th year before he took over)
2009-2010 Sharks - 4th
2010-2011 Sharks - 6th
2011-2012 Sharks - 11th
2012-2013 Sharks- 23rd
2013-2014 Sharks - 5th
2014-2015 Sharks - 17th

2015-2016 Oilers - 27th (26th year before he took over)
2016-2017 Oilers - 7th
2017-2018 Oilers - 19th

2019-2020 Kings - 30th (30th the year before he took over)
2020-2021 Kings - 27th
2021-2022 Kings - 20th

I'm not saying he is some offensive genius, but to place the blame on him for the inability to turn the stats you posted into offensive results is a bit of a stretch. If this team could actually draft players who can generate offense we wouldn't be in this situation. The belief about Kings curse or Kings tax only exists because the Kings have been arguably the worst team in the NHL the last decade at introducing top 6 forwards onto the roster.

Having generational forwards helps, for sure. personnel IS an issue.

In Detroit he had Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom...
Sharks, Joe Thornton, Cheechoo, Pavelski, Burns...
Oilers...McJesus

Kings....Danault, Kopitar, Brown, Iafallo.

However, It's a little telling that even with McJesus, the Oilers were 19th...since Todd left, the Oilers have the #1 PP in the league. Yes, over a several year span. 2015-2016 Sharks? 3rd OA. Red Wings wright after Todd left? #1 Overall. So..if anything....GREAT powerplays have been historically underperforming under Todd. No wonder our basement powerplay found new depths.

 

[Lt Dan]

However, It's a little telling that even with McJesus, the Oilers were 19th...since Todd left, the Oilers have the #1 PP in the league. Yes, over a several year span. 2015-2016 Sharks? 3rd OA. Red Wings wright after Todd left? #1 Overall. So..if anything....GREAT powerplays have been historically underperforming under Todd. No wonder our basement powerplay found new depths.

I read this book while watching the Kings PP

 

[Mats26]

Wait what??

Dach was a prototypical 'big' C that chicago needed and Colorado sure as hell did NOT need a C, at that point they were still stocking D (hell that same summer they traded Duchene for Girard). Neither of those is a condemnation of Turcotte at that time.

Dach was in that 3-8 range because of his lack of speed and defensive awareness. They messed up...I would took Byram at #3 in a heart beat. I don't even think Hawks had Turcotte in their top 5. Th Avs picking Byram was then a no brainer (PPG at #4) but they needed a center.

Reminder: Avs traded on July 1, 2019 for Nazim Kadri and shipped D men out a week or so after the draft.

Kings would of took Byram over Turcotte anywhere on the board and everyone knows that. Let's not pretend that they were all in on him. He was a "sure thing" but as we can see, nothing is sure.

 

[SmytheKing]

Kings would of took Byram over Turcotte anywhere on the board and everyone knows that. Let's not pretend that they were all in on him. He was a "sure thing" but as we can see, nothing is sure.

They would have taken Jack Hughes too but neither was available at #5 so it's irrelevant that they wanted Byram.

 

[BringTheReign]

We were also comically/historically bad at shooting this season. I think we finished the year with 50 less goals than expected based off of our 5v5 chance rate.

 

[kenito7]

We were also comically/historically bad at shooting this season. I think we finished the year with 50 less goals than expected based off of our 5v5 chance rate.

Maybe being old I just prefer actual stats to advance stats but the Kings made a jump in goal scoring this year. I know everyone scored more this year but the Kings were closer to the middle of the pack than the bottom like usual. They did pretty good considering no help from the dmen
very little from the PP and no big goal scorer from the forwards other than Kempe.

 

[Mats26]

They would have taken Jack Hughes too but neither was available at #5 so it's irrelevant that they wanted Byram.

You missed the point. Hughes went first overall, I am talking about at 5 after missing the D we wanted, the draft tiers should of been a little more wide open. Still fine with the pick, but we got 2 injured high end prospects that probably won't hit their ceilings now. Makes me wonder how we establish the draft tiers compared to other teams, since the Wings went for Sieder right after and Habs had Zegras #3.

 

[BringTheReign]

Maybe being old I just prefer actual stats to advance stats but the Kings made a jump in goal scoring this year. I know everyone scored more this year but the Kings were closer to the middle of the pack than the bottom like usual. They did pretty good considering no help from the dmen
very little from the PP and no big goal scorer from the forwards other than Kempe.

Agreed, but even by actual stats we had the lowest team shooting percentage in the league at 8.2% despite the jump in goal scoring. The median was 9.5%, so if we apply that 1.3% difference we get 37 more goals this year than we actually got. Our shot volume improved which is great, but we could still add shooting talent/adjust a bit generate more pre-shot movement, things like that.

 

[kingsholygrail]

That is demonstrably false. The Kings were one of the best teams in the league this year at generating shots off the rush.

View attachment 548979View attachment 548982View attachment 548983View attachment 548984

Doesn't this basically just show that the Kings have players that can get into the zone with the puck but can't actually score with it?

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Doesn't this basically just show that the Kings have players that can get into the zone with the puck but can't actually score with it?

It does show that. I was just pointing out that it’s not true that they’re a cycle/forecheck team over a rush team. The Kings are very middling when it comes to offensive opportunities created off the cycle/forecheck whereas they’re one of the top teams at generating offensive opportunities off the rush.

 

[King'sPawn]

It does show that. I was just pointing out that it’s not true that they’re a cycle/forecheck team over a rush team. The Kings are very middling when it comes to offensive opportunities created off the cycle/forecheck whereas they’re one of the top teams at generating offensive opportunities off the rush.

I think you need to have guns to have a run and gun team though.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I think you need to have guns to have a run and gun team though.

Fine, they're a run-and-done team!

 

[Lt Dan]

I think you need to have guns to have a run and gun team though.

How about a run and tickle team?

 

[johnjm22]

We were also comically/historically bad at shooting this season. I think we finished the year with 50 less goals than expected based off of our 5v5 chance rate.

Are we? Or are we just taking a lot of low quality shots?

But it's true there was a massive chasm between the King's goals expected verse their actual goals scored.

I wonder if the King's management/coaching staff pays attention to these analytics.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Are we? Or are we just taking a lot of low quality shots?

But it's true there was a massive chasm between the King's goals expected verse their actual goals scored.

I wonder if the King's management/coaching staff pays attention to these analytics.

I'm pretty sure they do. They hired Rob Vollman and Hayden Speak to provide an analytical angle to scouting (and listening to Yannetti interviews, it's pretty clear the Kings have blended traditional scouting with analytical information). They also hired Ryan Kruse as VP of Research and Development:



Also, re your first point, the Kings definitely were not just relying on low quality shots. They were 4th in the league in both chances-for-per-60 and high-danger-chances-per-60 at 5-on-5.