True Realism

[hobarth]

Back in the day there was a rumor that TO offered Stamkos 13 plus mil. per year , he eventually settled for $8.5 mil. with TB, that's around a 5 mil. $ difference, that didn't entice Stamkos who is a Markham boy. TO also promised him added revenue for advertising $s with Cdn Tire and others, again rumored, that $20 mil. per year was the ultimate figure.

Gaudreau was offered more money by Calgary than Columbus, Calgary is/was a very good team, Columbus not so good, yet Gaudreau wanted out. Now Tkachuk wants out and I think we can bet he doesn't want to stay in Canada, I'd bet he wants to return to St.L. or maybe even Arizona, he'd willingly take a hair cut to do so.

So what, most players of any quality have contracts early in their careers with modified NMC and generally there is a 10 team list that they submit that names the teams they don't want to go to, usually/normally the 7 Canadian teams are on those lists, Kadri had Calgary on his and he was playing for a Cdn. team.

It seems that generally both Canadians and Americans aren't happy playing for a Canadian team, what might this mean for TO, Matthews, Marner, Nylander get a bit of a thrashing from the Cdn. media and fan bases, in 1 to 2 years they will be able to go/do whatever they want, where ever they want. At the very least I'd expect Matthews to sign below the border.

How should a GM react in Canada, knowing this, keep the players until their contracts expire, like Calgary did with Gaudreau, or trade those players away while they can for asset(s), even tho their competitive edge would also be traded away.

It's tough being a Canadian GM and even tougher being a fan of a Canadian NHL team. It'll be 30 years since the last Canadian team won a Cup, I wonder how many more before the next Canadian champion?

Click to read more...

 

[as Pure as Evil]

on the flip side. ottawa has had no issue what so ever locking up there young and upcoming american /canadian/ european stars. maybe it has to do more with the person being drafted then it does the location of the team. there will always be a reason or something that detracts someone from a region.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I think it's a tough pill to swallow - moreso with Winnipeg/Calg/Edm.

But generally all Canadian teams have, and will always have a tough time keeping players from going/staying south.

If you're signing a big contract as a young guy, would you want to be stuck in cowtown, fishbowl and/or shit weather?

Seems like a no brainer to head south as a Canadian and to return home as an American. Toronto and Montreal have a little more appeal...but not the same as a handful of American cities.

It sucks, but we're starting to realize quickly, this country stinks for the rich.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I didn't hear anything about us offering Stamkos 13 million. I think I heard that SJ offered Tavares 13 but he signed here for less instead.

Last big money guys we had that were approaching UFA status were Kessel and Phaneuf, both were not only getting grief from the fans but they were on a crappy team as well. They both chose to stay here.

Some of you guys worry way too much. If it happens, it happens but there are plenty of reasons for M&M to stay like we are a top contender, look to be a top contender for years to come and they get to play together. Not many places (if any) can offer them that.

Nylander's another story but that has nothing to do with this being a Canadian team.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Better weather, taxes, and lifestyle in the US.

Dealing with annoying Yankees media and fans is balanced by more $$. Dealing with similar nutso fans and media in Toronto is compensated by less money and shittier weather.

The NHL is designed to make money for team owners. Everything else is secondary.

The players don't really care about winning. Only the fans care.

If your company was doing great but you hated your job, would you work like a dog to make your company even better ? No, you'd look for a job you'd enjoy more, especially when money is capped.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think it's a tough pill to swallow - moreso with Winnipeg/Calg/Edm.

But generally all Canadian teams have, and will always have a tough time keeping players from going/staying south.

If you're signing a big contract as a young guy, would you want to be stuck in cowtown, fishbowl and/or shit weather?

Seems like a no brainer to head south as a Canadian and to return home as an American. Toronto and Montreal have a little more appeal...but not the same as a handful of American cities.

It sucks, but we're starting to realize quickly, this country stinks for the rich.

Where are you getting this from? This is true for the NBA but if there is a history of NHL players bolting from their Canadian teams as soon as they can, it's news to me.

 

[the squared circle]

 

[HockeyVirus]

Back in the day there was a rumor that TO offered Stamkos 13 plus mil. per year , he eventually settled for $8.5 mil. with TB, that's around a 5 mil. $ difference, that didn't entice Stamkos who is a Markham boy. TO also promised him added revenue for advertising $s with Cdn Tire and others, again rumored, that $20 mil. per year was the ultimate figure.

Gaudreau was offered more money by Calgary than Columbus, Calgary is/was a very good team, Columbus not so good, yet Gaudreau wanted out. Now Tkachuk wants out and I think we can bet he doesn't want to stay in Canada, I'd bet he wants to return to St.L. or maybe even Arizona, he'd willingly take a hair cut to do so.

So what, most players of any quality have contracts early in their careers with modified NMC and generally there is a 10 team list that they submit that names the teams they don't want to go to, usually/normally the 7 Canadian teams are on those lists, Kadri had Calgary on his and he was playing for a Cdn. team.

It seems that generally both Canadians and Americans aren't happy playing for a Canadian team, what might this mean for TO, Matthews, Marner, Nylander get a bit of a thrashing from the Cdn. media and fan bases, in 1 to 2 years they will be able to go/do whatever they want, where ever they want. At the very least I'd expect Matthews to sign below the border.

How should a GM react in Canada, knowing this, keep the players until their contracts expire, like Calgary did with Gaudreau, or trade those players away while they can for asset(s), even tho their competitive edge would also be traded away.

It's tough being a Canadian GM and even tougher being a fan of a Canadian NHL team. It'll be 30 years since the last Canadian team won a Cup, I wonder how many more before the next Canadian champion?

Hold on here while you might be giving some facts, you are missing context. When Stamkos met with us, we were in the middle of 1 playoff appearance in 10 seasons and fresh off salute gate and peak toxicity we had with the team and were tanking.

We brought in Stamkos and said "How would you like to be the face of the franchise, pay you a boatload of money, put you on every product and ad we can" and Stamkos was scared off of the pressure of being the loan bearer of hope after watching what our market did to guys like Kessel and Phaneuf.

If that meeting happened today, it would go a lot differently. Our franchise is a lot different and is in a much healthier place, even if looking at this board would make you think otherwise.

Now your point is also cherry picked heavily. Sure, a few examples of players choosing to go to the states. But what about Tavares? Doesn't he counter out the Stamkos point almost exactly, given he signed here for less than two US markets offered him? What about all the free agents who choose Canadian teams?

Just this offseason we had Evander Kane and Campbell choose the Oilers (and Hyman last year) when they were arguably the top of their class. Giroux chose Ottawa, Mikheyev chose Vancouver. Sure, these are not Stamkos level players, but how rare is it those players actually hit UFA?

Fact of the matter is, what matters most to players is the franchise is stable and a contender more than anything. We couldn't draw a decent free agent to save our lives for years. Now that the players know they are going to a playoff team, we get all kinds of value signings and players wanting to stay.

 

[kellmuff96]

I always thought the Stamkos to Toronto rumours were laughable. Like why would he have left THAT situation in Tampa for the circus that is in Toronto.

 

[Chief Leaf]

So the two lil bitches set each other up on the ice and for a move south side.

Johnny spent what 10 years in Calgary?
Tkachuk now wanting to follow that lead? Sounds like these two whined in each others pillow.

Look man,the spotlight in Hockey is what attracts you at first but if it's about the weather? They play 82 games a year travelling and for the few months they are off then most places have heat in the summer right?

It's about the coin, the bragging right, that spotlight is only fetched by those who really want to be in it. There are some players that don't like the huge spotlight....but they take the money?????

I'd hate to think that these two players are going to be the ones that start the line of head south. I don't think it is true realism but then again,....it does kinda make one wonder why the Arizona team never really barked loud where they are going to play for awhile. Maybe it's cause of the weather.

Hockey talk for me was always better than talking about the weather when casually striking up a convo with someone. Now two players (1 who earned a move because of the amount of time he already played there and the other just happens to be a little broken hearted and now, like a cow wants to graze in a different cash cow pasture? Well MOOOOve it on over. I feel for the flames fans and what type of predictiment they are being led into. haha if I'm a Calgary journalist I start going over to Brady and keep asking him why his brother is a cow......ard?

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

If I got to choose between Toronto and Florida and also got to make a shit ton of money to do something I love, I'd pick Florida every time. Way she goes.

 

[madmike77]

It’s part of the reason why a Canadian team hasn’t won a Cup in ages. A lot of players (even some Canadians) prefer playing in cities with better weather, lower taxes and a less insane fan/media base. It sucks, but I expect Matthews to walk as soon as he can.

 

[Fogelhund]

wrong thread.

 

[Rude Dog]

If I got to choose between Toronto and Florida and also got to make a shit ton of money to do something I love, I'd pick Florida every time. Way she goes.

We talking the 50% empty arena in Florida or TB? Personally, if I am one of the best players on the planet, I would play in a city where it means the most. Who cares if you win, when your own city doesn't give a crap.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Toronto: HCOL, taxes, etc. ungrateful, fickle fans (see Marner, Nylander, Phil, etc.) and absolutely garbage media

Great if you're winning, probably not super fun when you can't get over the hump.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

We talking the 50% empty arena in Florida or TB? Personally, if I am one of the best players on the planet, I would play in a city where it meant the most. Who cares if you win, when your own city doesn't give a crap.

You have to consider the human factor. Living in the state of Florida is far superior to living in the city of Toronto. Especially if you're making bank. No contest.

You win, less pressure, make more money, live more comfortably, and set yourself up for a nice retirement.

Entirely subjective tbh.

 

[GrizzGreen]

We talking the 50% empty arena in Florida or TB? Personally, if I am one of the best players on the planet, I would play in a city where it means the most. Who cares if you win, when your own city doesn't give a crap.

Florida actually supports the team fairly well, Sunrise is just an absolutely awful location for their rink, no one lives less than an hour away.

 

[Marmoset]

I think whatever city you are in, Canadian or American, having a sense of what your players are going to do approaching UFA is important. I've always had a feeling that Gaudreau was going to leave Calgary. He never seemed like a guy who relished playing there, or relished the attention of a hockey-mad market. I thought Calgary should have moved him rather than hope for the best. (And I thought this a year ago). Of course, I could have been wrong.

A big concern with the Leafs is their history over the last decade of letting almost every key pending UFA walk for nothing. I think you have to at least explore trading Matthews, Nylander, whoever if they won't commit to signing an extension. You can't just hope he will sign with you, and then suddenly he's in New York or Vegas. At least Arizona is extremely unlikely!

In the case of Matthews I think winning will be the biggest factor determining if he stays. Gaudreau obviously had different priorities because although the Blue Jackets could make some noise in the future, they don't seem poised to do that right now.

 

[Voodoo Child]

The whole Stamkos thing with the CEO of Canadian Tire being there was JV from the get-go. JT wanted to come home, but I bet he doesn’t if the Leafs are the 2007-2015 era Leafs.

Toronto is the only city in Canada that can offer a comparable experience and lifestyle to a major American market: the Jays, the Raptors, FC, TIFF - realistically it’s only behind LA, NYC, Chicago, the Bay Area and Miami, and it’s not too far behind the last three.

It’s the only city in Canada where you aren’t the only game in town, it’s the anchor of a hugely populated area, but just a few hours from Gravenhurst, the Bruce, Halliburton and Lake Huron. There’s way more places to hide than any other Canadian city.

I’d guess that aside from Vancouver, each of the other Canadian NHL cities have major issues that deter players, and not just the hectic sports media.

Edmonton - Cold, boring, isolated and tons of travel.

Calgary - Not as bad as Edmonton but an aging building and tons of travel.

Winnipeg - See Edmonton, except even smaller and more lame.

Ottawa - Small market, not an exciting place and dysfunctional ownership.

Montreal - The French.

With most players the extent that they want to be recognized only matters as much as it translates into extra endorsement dollars and access to women. They don’t want every idiot on the street jamming them up after a bad game.

If I was an NHLer every Canadian city would be on my NTC list except for Toronto and Vancouver, and even then I’d only go there if the teams were good and they got me paid.

I think it’s likely Matthews stays because the Leafs are a good team, and who else is going to be able to hand him 50 mil as soon as he signs on the line?

 

[DarkKnight]

590 spent 20 minutes today discussing why Matthews will probably leave. I did not enjoy the discussion.

 

[ITM]

So the two lil bitches set each other up on the ice and for a move south side.

Johnny spent what 10 years in Calgary?
Tkachuk now wanting to follow that lead? Sounds like these two whined in each others pillow.

Look man,the spotlight in Hockey is what attracts you at first but if it's about the weather? They play 82 games a year travelling and for the few months they are off then most places have heat in the summer right?

It's about the coin, the bragging right, that spotlight is only fetched by those who really want to be in it. There are some players that don't like the huge spotlight....but they take the money?????

I'd hate to think that these two players are going to be the ones that start the line of head south. I don't think it is true realism but then again,....it does kinda make one wonder why the Arizona team never really barked loud where they are going to play for awhile. Maybe it's cause of the weather.

Hockey talk for me was always better than talking about the weather when casually striking up a convo with someone. Now two players (1 who earned a move because of the amount of time he already played there and the other just happens to be a little broken hearted and now, like a cow wants to graze in a different cash cow pasture? Well MOOOOve it on over. I feel for the flames fans and what type of predictiment they are being led into. haha if I'm a Calgary journalist I start going over to Brady and keep asking him why his brother is a cow......ard?

It's a reminder that these players are assets.

Being Toronto and being accused of being "not really Canada" and the usual invective might be to our advantage. That said, fantastic as our players might be, they are assets.

Who knows...Perhaps the real value in these assets is the type of foundational exchange we might not have yielded were they not generational Leafs.

Bear in mind, Eric Lindros was a "generational player" for a time. He never won a Cup, but the yield from moving him paved the way for Quebec/Colorado to win the Cup.

Believe me, I want to see Auston Matthews lift the Cup as a Maple Leaf. But not as I much as I want to see the Cup lifted by The Toronto Maple Leafs, whoever they may be.

I hope our management is watching with tunnel vision what's going on in Calgary, and laying contingencies right, left and center to insure it does not happen to Toronto.

That type of management isn't just mismanagement, it's nigh willful neglect.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Believe me, I want to see Auston Matthews lift the Cup as a Maple Leaf. But not as I much as I want to see the Cup lifted by The Toronto Maple Leafs, whoever they may be.

I hope our management is watching with tunnel vision what's going on in Calgary, and laying contingencies right, left and center to insure it does not happen to Toronto.

That type of management isn't just mismanagement, it's nigh willful neglect.

The Lindros scenario won't work for us with Matthews - trade for Lindros and you'd have his rights for a number of years which is not the case with Matthews.

Of course management will do whatever they can do entice Matthews to stay, but there's nothing they do to ensure it.

What type of management is willful neglect? Allowing a player to leave when there's absolutely nothing they can do stop him. You're not making sense.

 

[DarkKnight]

Next summer is the deadline to sign Matthews, if he says the right things but refuses to sign until he hits UFA, then you trade him immediately. You’ve already squandered the cupboard for the most part, if you let him walk for nothing, then you’ve screwed the franchise for a long time. Ditto for Bill.

 

[DarkKnight]

And of course, those two walking to free agency for 2024-25 when Bettman already said the escrow will be resolved and the cap will soar. So Leafy.

 

[justashadowof]

I know we were all propagandized how much better Canada is than the U.S. but few really believe that. U.S. is better for weather, opportunity, personal autonomy, for ambitious people, for being left alone (unless you're some megastar), etc. Over the years every immigrant I've known who has brought up this subject admitted they were trying to get in the U.S. before Canada. Canada is a great place overall but we are comparing Canada to the single most desirable emigration destination in the 20th century and into the 21st.

So back to the NHL, it takes money and lots more of it to accept a Canadian locale over many U.S. locales. Taxes, constantly being recognized and approached, winters, less lifestyle amenities, more schools to set up your offsprings' lives, happier wives, etc. Not to mention that NHL players who want to win probably have figured out that they'll have a better chance of winning in lower tax states than Canadian locales.