Rumor: Trouba to Detroit (Rangers retaining)

[Dotter]

I never was high on Veleno's upside, but on a team that is still has issues at forward depth why should Detroit dump its third best center?

Mazur with RAS back on center.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You make some good points. But Detroit gave up the 8th most goals in the league last year. In addition to goaltending being a problem, the defense needs a significant upgrade, not the continuation of adding bandaids until all the kids are ready.

I agree I just don't know who that could've been. I also think the goals against was a team defense problem, not just the defensemen.

The Wings are just now reaching the point of being a team UFAs would want to sign with because they think the team can be competitive. It's that catch-22 of sucking. You need better players but good UFAs generally want to sign with good teams. Or at least one with a potentially generational talent.

Hopefully in the next season or two Yzerman can land some players that will be real difference makers.

 

[Shaman464]

Mazur with RAS back on center.

Ras is a trash center.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I never was high on Veleno's upside, but on a team that is still has issues at forward depth why should Detroit dump its third best center?

They wouldn't be dumping their third best center. They're dumping Veleno.

 

[Shaman464]

They wouldn't be dumping their third best center. They're dumping Veleno.

Veleno is better than Copp. From cost for production, future value and current impact.

 

[odin1981]

Roy is going to cost!

Roy is gonna be like the ufa was from the Islanders last year. good defender but will get way too much term and $ for his ability because he is a good player now. But when he gets signed for 7 and age regresses in around 3 years his deal will be a anchor.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

If my math is right, that would be a net increase of $4.5M for Detroit.

Also have to pay Veleno. So probably more like 2-2.5mil increase.

 

[jkutswings]

I'd rather strip Trouba from that deal. Like if Trouba doesn't come back I would do that deal 10/10.

Ok. And why on earth would the Rangers take on a million dollars by swapping Kakko for Holl?

 

[Bench]

So you thread banning everyone who thinks your argument was stupid?

Not at all. Just people that have a history of being rude when asked to stop.

If you want to call me stupid, you can do that in the DMs. If you want to do it here, you can also take a timeout. It's not terrible difficult, but then again, I am very stupid so maybe my Forrest Gump way of seeing the world is too idyllic for you.

 

[Shaman464]

Ok. And why on earth would the Rangers take on a million dollars by swapping Kakko for Holl?

Why would Yzerman give up a 2nd to trade Walman? I assume copious amounts of alcohol. But, Trouba makes that trade an L for Yzerman, they would need send a pick or prospect back to make it palatable.

 

[jkutswings]

Veleno is better than Copp. From cost for production, future value and current impact.

No. You're just conveniently ignoring all the things that Copp is better at than Veleno (faceoffs, penalty killing, overall defense).

 

[Dotter]

Ras is a trash center.

So is Veleno. Otherwise explore UFA. Can Skinner play center?

 

[HisNoodliness]

Chiarot has absolutely not been a bad addition. Petry is meh. Holl was a mistake. Maatta is a serviceable bottom pairing guy. Ghost was a one-year reclamation project that mostly paid off.

When you look at these signings the theme has been their relatively short term and to keep trying to make improvements when possible.

Like you seem to want people to be complaining more? I see incremental improvements and relatively low risk moves. I think Yzerman will pull the trigger if there's an opportunity that's worth it. But I'm also glad he's not going out trading for Erik Karlsson.

I'm just saying that the idea that anyone who says "I don't want Trouba, I think that would be a mistake" isn't being a crazy naysayer. It's pretty reasonable to complain about our defensive personnel decisions. Sure, some of us bitch just because we want to, but in general, I think the criticism is pretty legit at this point.

And I'm also happy that we haven't done something more significant- but that's because I think we can't scout pro D for whatever reason. With our short term choices, their one saving grace has been that they were all low commitment.

It appears that we're on the verge of adding another mediocre at best player to our already bad D IMO. That's discouraging. Anyone who is discouraged by that isn't being a hater just to hate. We'll see what the cost is. If they retain on Trouba and we can subtract one of Holl, Petry or Chiarot in the deal, then it's whatever. Otherwise, I'll be critical of the deal because I think it's a dumb decision.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Veleno is better than Copp. From cost for production, future value and current impact.

Oh do players skate around carrying their AAV?

Copp is markedly a better hockey player than Veleno. On the ice. During games. It's honestly not close.

If Veleno were better than Copp he probably wouldn't be playing less minutes than him, taking 300+ fewer faceoffs than him. The only scenario where Veleno should be playing over Copp is the power play, and ideally he wouldn't be there either.

EDIT: And I say that as someone who was really pleasantly surprised with how Veleno looked in the first part of that season. I don't know what happened to that guy though because he went back to old Veleno for the rest of the season.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

So you thread banning everyone who thinks your argument was stupid?

There is a huge difference between thinking the take was stupid and being a recalcitrant jackass.

Tbf, that was probably a “repeat offender” type thing in which Nick is kind of a dick about things always instead of one unique occurrence.

Like how Trouba will get suspended a lot quicker for elbows than a guy like Seider would

 

[RRhoads]

Maybe you shouldn't moderate, if cannot take people disagreeing with you

take feedback on moderation in PMs. It's common courtesy, and has been that way since the beginning of forums. No need to derail the thread with that here.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I'd rather strip Trouba from that deal. Like if Trouba doesn't come back I would do that deal 10/10.

Of course you would. But the whole reason the deal happens is that Trouba is involved

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'm just saying that the idea that anyone who says "I don't want Trouba, I think that would be a mistake" isn't being a crazy naysayer. It's pretty reasonable to complain about our defensive personnel decisions. Sure, some of us bitch just because we want to, but in general, I think the criticism is pretty legit at this point.

And I'm also happy that we haven't done something more significant- but that's because I think we can't scout pro D for whatever reason. With our short term choices, their one saving grace has been that they were all low commitment.

It appears that we're on the verge of adding another mediocre at best player to our already bad D IMO. That's discouraging. Anyone who is discouraged by that isn't being a hater just to hate. We'll see what the cost is. If they retain on Trouba and we can subtract one of Holl, Petry or Chiarot in the deal, then it's whatever. Otherwise, I'll be critical of the deal because I think it's a dumb decision.

That all makes sense.

Honestly regarding this specific deal I don't like it because I am a bit of a Trouba hater. I think he's a dirty POS for his repeated elbows.

 

[jaster]

I could live with something like this.

I take that every day, and twice on norrisnick’s days off.

 

[Shaman464]

Of course you would. But the whole reason the deal happens is that Trouba is involved

And that deal is an L for the Wings with Trouba on it. New York would need to add more to make it even.

 

[ZDH]

off to look up what recalcitrant means

 

[Shaman464]

I take that all day, and twice on norrisnick’s days off.

You're adding 4.5 million in Salary, which with the cap situation and Mo and Ray needing raises means that theyre going to be at the cap very quickly especially if Ghost stays.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

By the time ASP is ready for a top 4 role, $6M will be a 3rd pairing salary anyway. Getting the better defensive player in Roy is greatly preferable to taking on a barely skating liability in Trouba.

Agreed. We make this trade so the Rangers can land someone like Roy. This trade helps the Rangers going forward way more than it will help us, yet I doubt we'll receive a considerable sweetener.

This is a deal that can be circled back to if we land no better defensive help through free agency. "Call me back on July 4th and see where Im at."

 

[RedHawkDown]

That proposed trade would be acceptable if that’s what it is. Kakko is an upgrade on Veleno and maybe he has some untapped potential; after all the Rangers seem to be quite bad at developing forwards. Turning Holl into Trouba for 2M more isn’t terrible.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I could live with something like this.

I'd be very happy with a move like this.