Rumor: Trouba to Detroit (Rangers retaining)

[norrisnick]

What is the median for third pairing defensemen?

On our team last year it was $3.6M.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Might I remind you of the bullshit statement I was responding to?

"I know people are going to find issue with any defenseman coming in that's not Makar" - Bench

What bullshit there?

Tell me how we haven’t had a large contingent bitch about every single defenseman acquisition we’ve made besides drafting Seider and Edvinsson in the past decade.

Trouba is a better defenseman now than anyone on our roster except Seider from last year (yes, Ed too.).

No, he’s not perfect, but it’s insane if we’re getting him at 4-5.5m and it isn’t an insane trade price to have a problem with the pickup.

 

[RRhoads]

On our team last year it was $3.6M.

There is a lot to learn from that.

 

[tabness]

I always liked Trouba, a good throwback guy, and we have had the double whammy of both being bad and soft for the past few years.

I find it odd people don't like him because he's "dirty" given we had Konstantinov and Kronwall on this team (obviously both were better especially Vladdy but you could throw the same criticism at them).

Trouba is on the decline and was more bad real bad Michael Jackson than good real good Mike Babcock these playoffs, but at enough retained why not?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I always liked Trouba, a good throwback guy, and we have had the double whammy of both being bad and soft for the past few years.

I find it odd people don't like him because he's "dirty" given we had Konstantinov and Kronwall on this team (obviously both were better especially Vladdy but you could throw the same criticism at them).

Trouba is on the decline and was more bad real bad Michael Jackson than good real good Mike Babcock these playoffs, but at enough retained why not?

The problem is he is so washed up. He is only 30 on paper. And he is slow af.Expect a bunch of dumb penalties in close games.

 

[Bench]

Might I remind you of the bullshit statement I was responding to?

"I know people are going to find issue with any defenseman coming in that's not Makar" - Bench

Can you just like... not? Why is everything so contentious? This was a benign statement made to illustrate you can find criticism in any player acquisition.

I don't even know what you're trying to accomplish half the time other than continue to surge up the "ignored by" rankings.

 

[jkutswings]

The problem is he is so washed up. He is only 30 on paper. And he is slow af.Expect a bunch of dumb penalties in close games.

The Perron of defensemen.

 

[norrisnick]

Can you just like... not? Why is everything so contentious? This was a benign statement made to illustrate you can find criticism in any player acquisition.

I don't even know what you're trying to accomplish half the time other than continue to surge up the "ignored by" rankings.

Same dude, same...

- People will bitch about anyone but Makar
- Who here is asking for Makar?
- Hey look guys this guy doesn't even want Makar

 

[Frk It]

So the 3rd leading player in ice time defensively on the President's Trophy winning team is a downgrade? He was playing on a broken ankle with a chunk missing, not even many NHL guys are doing that. He is tough as hell and would be an ideal partner for Edvinsson.

He is 30 years old and it is a two year commitment. I like the deal, he makes us better and helps slot roles on the team better. I want to see the return but I am interested in this and I think he will help take some of the tough minutes off Mo.

I was originally thinking hell no to this, but you are warming me up to the idea some.

 

[HisNoodliness]

What bullshit there?

Tell me how we haven’t had a large contingent bitch about every single defenseman acquisition we’ve made besides drafting Seider and Edvinsson in the past decade.

Trouba is a better defenseman now than anyone on our roster except Seider from last year (yes, Ed too.).

No, he’s not perfect, but it’s insane if we’re getting him at 4-5.5m and it isn’t an insane trade price to have a problem with the pickup.

We also haven't chosen particularly good defenseman in the past decade. Can we really criticize anyone that thought Chiarot, Holl and Petry were bad additions? Were we supposed to dance in the streets when we brought in Patrick Nemeth and Madison Bowey? Marc Staal and Christian Djoos should have been celebrated?

And for the few that worked out there really hasn't been that much hate. With Maatta the reaction by and large was "not exciting, but he's fine." With Ghost the reaction was "Maybe the defense isn't there, but we could use some blue line scoring. Let's be cautiously optimistic." And with most of the early guys like Troy Stretcher the reactions were mostly like with Maatta- a lot of "shrug, whatever, trust Yzerman."

When I grade what we have done on defense, I think being critical is right. Yzerman built that Tampa defense without really any drafting (inherited 2 OA Hedman and draft picks did serve as trade fuel), so he really deserved the benefit of the doubt. After bringing in Chiarot, Petry, Holl, Maatta, and Walman (apparently)-he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore on this front. If we aren't saved by our defense prospects, I'm really not confident in our ability to build even a league average defense. Luckily, I think we're going to be saved by our prospects.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I always liked Trouba, a good throwback guy, and we have had the double whammy of both being bad and soft for the past few years.

I find it odd people don't like him because he's "dirty" given we had Konstantinov and Kronwall on this team (obviously both were better especially Vladdy but you could throw the same criticism at them).

Trouba is on the decline and was more bad real bad Michael Jackson than good real good Mike Babcock these playoffs, but at enough retained why not?

You don't need quotes around dirty. Trouba is legit dirty. Specifically throwing elbows to players heads.

Kronwall had some questionable hits but he was trying to make an actual hockey play. Vladdy certainly stepped over the line at times but that was also over 25 years ago. And he didn't repeatedly try to elbow guys in the head.

Chelios would be a better argument. Though he wasn't nearly as dirty by the time he joined the Wings. And again, different era.

I love Trouba's hard open ice hits but also think he's a dirty POS who tries to brain guys with his elbows. If he somehow knocks that off while wearing the winged wheel, great. But I won't hold my breath.

 

[tabness]

The problem is he is so washed up. He is only 30 on paper. And he is slow af.Expect a bunch of dumb penalties in close games.

Just going by what @NickyFotiu posted in this topic before it seems the reason he was sucking so bad (I only watched him in the playoffs really) was due to an injury mid season and before that he was playing well. So yeah it's wait and see whether he just hit a cliff or was just hampered by injury, hopefully that question can get some more salary retained and it can turn out to just be mostly the injury.

 

[Bench]

Same dude, same...

- People will bitch about anyone but Makar
- Who here is asking for Makar?
- Hey look guys this guy doesn't even want Makar

If you're having such a difficult time being civil when asked to stop, perhaps someone needs a forced time out to enjoy their weekend doing literally anything else.

See you back in the thread in 48 hours.

 

[RedHawkDown]

What bullshit there?

Tell me how we haven’t had a large contingent bitch about every single defenseman acquisition we’ve made besides drafting Seider and Edvinsson in the past decade.

Trouba is a better defenseman now than anyone on our roster except Seider from last year (yes, Ed too.).

No, he’s not perfect, but it’s insane if we’re getting him at 4-5.5m and it isn’t an insane trade price to have a problem with the pickup.

This is simply not true. Chiarot last year was a better defenseman than Trouba. For the first half of the season at least, so was Walman.

A lot of people here are thinking of Trouba from 3-4 years ago who was fantastic defensive physical presence. He is currently a massive liability and cannot play defense.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

We also haven't chosen particularly good defenseman in the past decade. Can we really criticize anyone that thought Chiarot, Holl and Petry were bad additions? Were we supposed to dance in the streets when we brought in Patrick Nemeth and Madison Bowey? Marc Staal and Christian Djoos should have been celebrated?

And for the few that worked out there really hasn't been that much hate. With Maatta the reaction by and large was "not exciting, but he's fine." With Ghost the reaction was "Maybe the defense isn't there, but we could use some blue line scoring. Let's be cautiously optimistic." And with most of the early guys like Troy Stretcher the reactions were mostly like with Maatta- a lot of "shrug, whatever, trust Yzerman."

When I grade what we have done on defense, I think being critical is right. Yzerman built that Tampa defense without really any drafting (inherited 2 OA Hedman and draft picks did serve as trade fuel), so he really deserved the benefit of the doubt. After bringing in Chiarot, Petry, Holl, Maatta, and Walman (apparently)-he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore on this front. If we aren't saved by our defense prospects, I'm really not confident in our ability to build even a league average defense. Luckily, I think we're going to be saved by our prospects.

Chiarot has absolutely not been a bad addition. Petry is meh. Holl was a mistake. Maatta is a serviceable bottom pairing guy. Ghost was a one-year reclamation project that mostly paid off.

When you look at these signings the theme has been their relatively short term and to keep trying to make improvements when possible.

Like you seem to want people to be complaining more? I see incremental improvements and relatively low risk moves. I think Yzerman will pull the trigger if there's an opportunity that's worth it. But I'm also glad he's not going out trading for Erik Karlsson.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

I could live with something like this.

 

[DoMakc]

If you're having such a difficult time being civil when asked to stop, perhaps someone needs a forced time out to enjoy their weekend doing literally anything else.

See you back in the thread in 48 hours.

So you thread banning everyone who thinks your argument was stupid?

 

[datsyukfan]

I could live with something like this.

Any idea if this guy is a reputable source??

 

[jkutswings]

Chiarot has absolutely not been a bad addition. Petry is meh. Holl was a mistake. Maatta is a serviceable bottom pairing guy. Ghost was a one-year reclamation project that mostly paid off.

When you look at these signings the theme has been their relatively short term and to keep trying to make improvements when possible.

Like you seem to want people to be complaining more? I see incremental improvements and relatively low risk moves. I think Yzerman will pull the trigger if there's an opportunity that's worth it. But I'm also glad he's not going out trading for Erik Karlsson.

You make some good points. But Detroit gave up the 8th most goals in the league last year. In addition to goaltending being a problem, the defense needs a significant upgrade, not the continuation of adding bandaids until all the kids are ready.

 

[HANK30]

How reliable are Brooks when it comes to trade rumours?

Very

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Any idea if this guy is a reputable source??

They are just throwing out an idea.

 

[Dotter]

I could live with something like this.

I'm done with Veleno, so I'd be okay with this.

 

[Shaman464]

I'm done with Veleno, so I'd be okay with this.

I never was high on Veleno's upside, but on a team that is still has issues at forward depth why should Detroit dump its third best center?

 

[jkutswings]

I could live with something like this.

If my math is right, that would be a net increase of $4.5M for Detroit.

 

[Shaman464]

If my math is right, that would be a net increase of $4.5M for Detroit.

I'd rather strip Trouba from that deal. Like if Trouba doesn't come back I would do that deal 10/10.