Speculation: Trouba Contract Discussion Part II

[Aavco Cup]

I think this will go up to close to the start of the regular season, or perhaps a little beyond.

I doubt Trouba sits out that long. I can't see him missing any regular season games

 

[Lorenzo1000]

Not sure Gary Lawless knows anything at all about what's happening with Trouba, his agent and the Jets. :-D

 

[Aavco Cup]

Not sure Gary Lawless knows anything at all about what's happening with Trouba, his agent and the Jets. :-D

Nobody has any idea. Everything out there lately is 100% speculation.

 

[FishWhiskey]

I have such mixed emotions about Trouba.

Flashes of brilliance - Check
Great potential - Check
Great and beloved team mate - Check
Sympathise with being sandbagged with Stu - Check

Then we have the other side.

Hires one of the scummiest agents in the game - Check
Plays like a hero one night and then plays like he's hung over the next. - Check
Shows up for training camps out of shape - Check
Seems to make no effort to improve his game in the off season - Check
Seeks to reassure management that he has mended his "party boy" ways by hanging out with DJ.BogoStick in the off season. - Check

If the kid has re dedicated himself to hockey I would move heaven and earth to get him signed but I see a lot of signs of a "problem child" here. Keep in mind that a symptom of indulging in bad hobbies off the ice is a delusional sense of entitlement and self worth.

Trouba's performance at the World Cup should be interesting and a good indicator of whether he has it in him to prepare like a pro.

If Chevy is not convinced Trouba has smartened up he should be trading him as fast as he can.

 

[csk]

I have such mixed emotions about Trouba.

Flashes of brilliance - Check
Great potential - Check
Great and beloved team mate - Check
Sympathise with being sandbagged with Stu - Check

Then we have the other side.

Hires one of the scummiest agents in the game - Check
Plays like a hero one night and then plays like he's hung over the next. - Check
Shows up for training camps out of shape - Check
Seems to make no effort to improve his game in the off season - Check
Seeks to reassure management that he has mended his "party boy" ways by hanging out with DJ.BogoStick in the off season. - Check

If the kid has re dedicated himself to I would move heaven and earth to get him signed but I see a lot of signs of a "problem child" here. Keep in mind that a symptom of indulging in bad hobbies off the ice is a delusional sense of entitlement and self worth.

Trouba's performance at the World Cup should be interesting and a good indicator of whether he has it in him to prepare like a pro.

If Chevy is not convinced Trouba has smartened up he should be trading him as fast as he can.

When did this happen?

 

[Unholy goalie]

Trouba has averaged close to 23 minutes per game the last couple of years, in no universe is that bottom pairing usage. He's averaged roughly 30 seconds of ice time per game less than Myers the last two years. That's hardly enough to say the org clearly rates Myers ahead of him. I think he was paired with Stuart because he was the only one that could make that pairing work. That is a testament to his ability not due to the Jets undervaluing him.

We agree that the Jets rate Trouba highly, maybe moreso than Myers (though I can't speak on the Jets' behalf). I said they weren't playing him like it. Average minutes are one thing but usage is also about special teams, zone starts, and pairings.

My bet is that they were playing the long game with Trouba and got caught shifting plans with Stu's decline and the trade for Myers. See ps241's earlier post for a reasonable analysis.

I do think that the Jets overvalue Myers' size and reach and that it influences how they assess roles.

 

[Unholy goalie]

I think this will go up to close to the start of the regular season, or perhaps a little beyond.

Been saying this for a while. I also think he'll hold out for part of TC. It's the Overhardt special!

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Agree with your take, Unholy. I think Myers is a very decent 2nd pairing defenseman, and I think Trouba got caught having to prop up Stuart, to give the Jets 3 reasonable pairings. In reality, Trouba should be playing ahead of Myers, and Enstrom should shift down to the 2nd pairing with him.

Please lock him up on a decent contract, Chevy.

 

[surixon]

We agree that the Jets rate Trouba highly, maybe moreso than Myers (though I can't speak on the Jets' behalf). I said they weren't playing him like it. Average minutes are one thing but usage is also about special teams, zone starts, and pairings.

My bet is that they were playing the long game with Trouba and got caught shifting plans with Stu's decline and the trade for Myers. See ps241's earlier post for a reasonable analysis.

I do think that the Jets overvalue Myers' size and reach and that it influences how they assess roles.

I disagree with this line of thinking. I think they had him in a very important role on the team. They counted on him to take on some of the toughest minutes on the team in terms of zone starts and quality of competition. They also gave him plenty of PK time. The only thing is they gave him a terrible partner to help him full fill that role.

Ask yourself this, who else on RD could be counted on to go up against the other teams best and push play from the dzone into the ozone consistently. I would argue only Buff but his elite offensive ability would be neutralized a bit in such a role. They only trusted Myers to play a middling role with a good partner. He

If I was Trouba I would have an issue with being tasked with performing the role they asked him with an inadequate partner and perhaps not getting more pp time. I don't think the Jets have been trying to marginalize him at all and I find the talk of sandbagging him silly. I think they valued him to play one of the more difficult roles on the team with less help because they knew he was capable of it.

 

[Unholy goalie]

Agree with your take, Unholy. I think Myers is a very decent 2nd pairing defenseman, and I think Trouba got caught having to prop up Stuart, to give the Jets 3 reasonable pairings. In reality, Trouba should be playing ahead of Myers, and Enstrom should shift down to the 2nd pairing with him.

Please lock him up on a decent contract, Chevy.

Hear hear.

This is one situation where I think Chevy's patience and resolve will pay off for the team.

 

[Unholy goalie]

I disagree with this line of thinking. I think they had him in a very important role on the team. They counted on him to take on some of the toughest minutes on the team in terms of zone starts and quality of competition. They also gave him plenty of PK time. The only thing is they gave him a terrible partner to help him full fill that role.

Ask yourself this, who else on RD could be counted on to go up against the other teams best and push play from the dzone into the ozone consistently. I would argue only Buff but his elite offensive ability would be neutralized a bit in such a role. They only trusted Myers to play a middling role with a good partner. He

If I was Trouba I would have an issue with being tasked with performing the role they asked him with an inadequate partner and perhaps not getting more pp time. I don't think the Jets have been trying to marginalize him at all and I find the talk of sandbagging him silly. I think they valued him to play one of the more difficult roles on the team with less help because they knew he was capable of it.

I think you're giving the Jets staff slightly more credit than they deserve. Your scenario of giving him an important role presumes that they were actively monitoring all stats throughout the season. Tbh I think they overvalued Stuart as a "shut down defenceman" and mentor and put Trouba with him purposely because they initially thought Stuart would be beneficial for his development. Then, they realized too late that the ship was sinking and decided to rearrange the chairs by giving him some offhand time with Buff while keeping him anchored to Stu.

I also don't buy the whole QoC argument. Sure he faced some tough competition, but I don't think it was entirely the Jets choice. Think about away games where Jets have first change. If I'm the opposition and I see Stuart on the ice I'm going to likely put out my best scorers if I can. I'm thinking that the Jets cared more about who is on C rather than D in the dzone in these situations. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my hunch would only be plausible if something like the home Rel Corsi % was better than away.

I also wouldn't ask "which RHD do I want out there". I would look at pairs, and it is clear to prefer both Buff/X and Myers/Enstrom over Trouba/Stu. That third pair needs to be played, however, so where might they best succeed? If I'm the Jets I'm thinking that if Trouba/Stu are in more defensive situations, I have the insurance of my better centres as well as less demand for back-checking.

We can both agree that the hardest part of Trouba's role was having Stuart as his frequent partner. You also make some good points about special teams and QoC that I'd want to think on a bit more. I don't think they were sandbagging Trouba per se, but I also don't think that the Jets believed they were giving him an important role (they might have been selling it that way though). My read on the situation over the last few years is as follows:

Jets: Stuart! So leader, much shot blocking! He'll help this young D become a pro!

Stuart: hurr durr

Trouba: I think I can, I think I can...

Jets: Our plan is working!

Stats guys: rabble rabble

Jets: Oh noes! But wait.. Trouba is keeping this thing afloat. Maybe he won't notice. *throws offhand bone*

IMO, by the end of it Trouba's role was to mitigate damage from his partner more than it was to shut down top lines because, as you say, he was capable of it.

 

[surixon]

I think you're giving the Jets staff slightly more credit than they deserve. Your scenario of giving him an important role presumes that they were actively monitoring all stats throughout the season. Tbh I think they overvalued Stuart as a "shut down defenceman" and mentor and put Trouba with him purposely because they initially thought Stuart would be beneficial for his development. Then, they realized too late that the ship was sinking and decided to rearrange the chairs by giving him some offhand time with Buff while keeping him anchored to Stu.

I also don't buy the whole QoC argument. Sure he faced some tough competition, but I don't think it was entirely the Jets choice. Think about away games where Jets have first change. If I'm the opposition and I see Stuart on the ice I'm going to likely put out my best scorers if I can. I'm thinking that the Jets cared more about who is on C rather than D in the dzone in these situations. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my hunch would only be plausible if something like the home Rel Corsi % was better than away.

I also wouldn't ask "which RHD do I want out there". I would look at pairs, and it is clear to prefer both Buff/X and Myers/Enstrom over Trouba/Stu. That third pair needs to be played, however, so where might they best succeed? If I'm the Jets I'm thinking that if Trouba/Stu are in more defensive situations, I have the insurance of my better centres as well as less demand for back-checking.

We can both agree that the hardest part of Trouba's role was having Stuart as his frequent partner. You also make some good points about special teams and QoC that I'd want to think on a bit more. I don't think they were sandbagging Trouba per se, but I also don't think that the Jets believed they were giving him an important role (they might have been selling it that way though). My read on the situation over the last few years is as follows:

Jets: Stuart! So leader, much shot blocking! He'll help this young D become a pro!

Stuart: hurr durr

Trouba: I think I can, I think I can...

Jets: Our plan is working!

Stats guys: rabble rabble

Jets: Oh noes! But wait.. Trouba is keeping this thing afloat. Maybe he won't notice. *throws offhand bone*

IMO, by the end of it Trouba's role was to mitigate damage from his partner more than it was to shut down top lines because, as you say, he was capable of it.

I agree with this point, I think Maurice now clearly sees the writing on the wall with regards to Stuart. His stripping him of his A and some other comments seem to support this.

But I think we are too quick to forget just how much of an impact Trouba had in that shut down role two seasons ago on route to us making the playoffs. He was dominant and that pairing despite Stu was able to consistently win their match-ups. Its also not that uncommon for real good defenseman to be paired with mediocre talents to balance pairings. Drew Doughty won a Norris last year while carrying McNab on his back all year.

 

[KingBogo]

I guess Overhardt is willing to let Trouba shine in the tournament (and waiting for Lindholm/Risto to sign in the process). A lose-lose situation for us really, unless team NA gets absolutely smoked. But then again, it's not a win-win situation for Trouba and his camp either.

Or Trouba is the #7 D and gets limited ice time.

 

[HannuJ]

Hear hear.

This is one situation where I think Chevy's patience and resolve will pay off for the team.

all said and done, there's a good chance they're bickering over an "inconsequential" dollar amount ($500k/year) or 1 year of term, with Trouba's camp wanting more.

Trouba's camp may also be the ones floating out the (true or false, it doesn't matter) rumours that Trouba's unhappy in Wpg and wants to be moved just so they can get an extra year or some cash from the Jets as hush money.

 

[KingBogo]

all said and done, there's a good chance they're bickering over an "inconsequential" dollar amount ($500k/year) or 1 year of term, with Trouba's camp wanting more.

Trouba's camp may also be the ones floating out the (true or false, it doesn't matter) rumours that Trouba's unhappy in Wpg and wants to be moved just so they can get an extra year or some cash from the Jets as hush money.

I'm not sure anything is really considered inconsequential by either side. In isolation $ 1/2 a million might seem inconsequential but it can have impacts down the line on team salary structure. My guess is until there is enough of a pressure point neither side feels motivated enough to start making concessions to bridge the cap between their last offers.

 

[Aavco Cup]

all said and done, there's a good chance they're bickering over an "inconsequential" dollar amount ($500k/year) or 1 year of term, with Trouba's camp wanting more.

Trouba's camp may also be the ones floating out the (true or false, it doesn't matter) rumours that Trouba's unhappy in Wpg and wants to be moved just so they can get an extra year or some cash from the Jets as hush money.

For all we know they could have agreed on $$$ and term but are apart on lockout protection. The Jets gave only minimal protection to Buff and even less to Scheifele.

 

[csk]

all said and done, there's a good chance they're bickering over an "inconsequential" dollar amount ($500k/year) or 1 year of term, with Trouba's camp wanting more.

Trouba's camp may also be the ones floating out the (true or false, it doesn't matter) rumours that Trouba's unhappy in Wpg and wants to be moved just so they can get an extra year or some cash from the Jets as hush money.

Given that all those rumours have come from random posters or people on call in shows, I doubt that they have come from anyone important.

 

[snowkiddin]

Given that all those rumours have come from random posters or people on call in shows, I doubt that they have come from anyone important.

1000% this.

 

[Jimby]

If I am Trouba and it starts to look that I will play #6 or #7 D on Team NA, I will sign a contract before the tournament is finished.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Sooooo my family ran into Stu Saturday morning as he was on the way to the lake with his wife......I didn't recognize him with his ball hat on but my wife pointed him out. We were all in Prada Esso and I was ashamed with myself. My wife said to my son he should say hello but my son was too embarrassed and I can only assume it's because his dad speaks so poorly of Stu on this board not that my 7 year old would know that.

Guilt.....shame......all the emotions were running through me and I was hoping they would catch up to us on the highway and run us off the road because I deserve it.



The end

Interesting. So famous people like Stu and ps241 go to Prada ESSO, while I suffer through the reeking masses at Prada Shell.

 

[ps241]

Interesting. So famous people like Stu and ps241 go to Prada ESSO, while I suffer through the reeking masses at Prada Shell.

Woops.....Fraudian slip.....it was the reeking Prada Shell with the gross washrooms. I have been pleading with my wife to try Esso but she hates change so we continue to endure the Shell.

 

[nobody important]

Woops.....Fraudian slip.....it was the reeking Prada Shell with the gross washrooms. I have been pleading with my wife to try Esso but she hates change so we continue to endure the Shell.

 

[ps241]

I have such mixed emotions about Trouba.

Flashes of brilliance - Check
Great potential - Check
Great and beloved team mate - Check
Sympathise with being sandbagged with Stu - Check

Then we have the other side.

Hires one of the scummiest agents in the game - Check
Plays like a hero one night and then plays like he's hung over the next. - Check
Shows up for training camps out of shape - Check
Seems to make no effort to improve his game in the off season - Check
Seeks to reassure management that he has mended his "party boy" ways by hanging out with DJ.BogoStick in the off season. - Check

If the kid has re dedicated himself to hockey I would move heaven and earth to get him signed but I see a lot of signs of a "problem child" here. Keep in mind that a symptom of indulging in bad hobbies off the ice is a delusional sense of entitlement and self worth.

Trouba's performance at the World Cup should be interesting and a good indicator of whether he has it in him to prepare like a pro.

If Chevy is not convinced Trouba has smartened up he should be trading him as fast as he can.

I feel like there are some unfair things being said.

When did Trouba show up to camp out of shape? Sincere question I did not hear that last off season?

So Jacob goes to visit Zach "and his wife and baby" for a few days and that is an issue?

On the flip side Jacob is training with our new captain Wheeler this summer in Florida who is one of our fittest players on the team but that seems to be getting no love? Seems like they are also spending some time together as well (draft night dinner as one example), yet little mention of the good stuff.

Is every guy that doesn't go to Roberts academy a problem and are they all out of shape? I have seen Trouba on Instagram in a photo at the beach and the kid was really fit looking. Is Jacob being held to a different standard than Lowry, Little, Wheeler, Ehlers, Buff, Toby, Stu, etc etc?

I don't mean to single you out FishWhiskey because the narrative around this kid is wide spread. I love Winnipeg but just ask any guy who is a Jets fan that I know at least and they say the same thing. Did we run Bogo out of town....maybe? Kane (which was a good thing)? Now our Winnipeg Jets sewing circle appears to have their sites set on Jacob. Lord help us if a 21 year old makes a mistake.

The Blackhawks would have zero cups if they were based out of here because the Jets are choir boys compared to yada yada and we would have eaten them up and spit them out long before they had a cup.

The sleazy agent thing we are in complete agreement on but I am guessing that was Jacob's camp that had that bright idea more than Jacob himself.

Anyways hopefully we get a deal done here after the World Cup but before the season starts. I would look forward to the blood hounds being called off for a while if Trouba signs.

 

[sully1410]

Woops.....Fraudian slip.....it was the reeking Prada Shell with the gross washrooms. I have been pleading with my wife to try Esso but she hates change so we continue to endure the Shell.

I get my gas at Costco. It's cheaper.

 

[KingBogo]

I was trying to remain cautiously optimistic we would get a Trouba signing right before the World cup of Hockey camps. Well that is out the window. I'm thinking eventually there will be a fever pitch around here as the season fast approaches with no Trouba in camp.