Proposal: Trouba all encompassing trade thread - Part 2

[Royale With Cheese]

I don't really understand what mechanism Jets management thinks is going to cause the trade offers for Trouba to become better the longer this situation goes on.

If teams X, Y and Z don't want to give you one of their top 4 LHD right now, what's going to change that they'll suddenly be willing to give up one of their top 4 LHD 10 or 20 games into the season?

Injuries, poor pre-season performances, failure of that team to get a contract or extension done for their LHD, similar trade request, etcetera.

Chevy may not get exactly a one for one deal like he desires. But he won't be in a rush that's a certainty. This man drinks molasses for breakfast.

My guess is that he WON'T get his one for one LHD and it's either Nurse from EDM or Chychrun from ARI, other pieces added as required.

 

[Hunter368]

Lol so it's now not enough to trade for a LHD of comparable age and ability, it has to be a LHD of comparable age and ability AND a top LHD prospect

Fowler alone doesn't match Chevy's stated demand......so you just answered your own question. If Chevy traded Trouba for Fowler straight up he would be chased out of the city by fans with pitchforks and rope. Fowler is FAR from a desirable return for Trouba. Fowler straight up is a easy pass from Jets.

If Fowler was the only option, sooner see Chevy get an older cheap but serviceable top 4 LHD with a couple years left via trade for a pick or prospect. Then trade Trouba for the BPA aka a forward. This gets us good value and gives our young LHD time to develop more. Not giving away Trouba for bits & pieces or taking reduced value in Fowler.

 

[tempest2i]

Injuries, poor pre-season performances, failure of that team to get a contract or extension done for their LHD, similar trade request, etcetera.

Chevy may not get exactly a one for one deal like he desires. But he won't be in a rush that's a certainty. This man drinks molasses for breakfast.

My guess is that he WON'T get his one for one LHD and it's either Nurse from EDM or Chychrun from ARI, other pieces added as required.

All your scenarios still require an impatient GM to step up and sell his future for the right now.

I know it's possible, I'm just skeptical there are that many GM's that are a) that bad at their jobs or b) on the hot seat that feel they need to make a huge move to keep their job.

I recognize that Chevy is going to slow play this, I'm just very skeptical that he's going to get what he wants.

 

[Apotheosis]

Not singling you out here, but why are the Maple Leafs seemingly so desperate to get rid of JVR? I swear the guy is in EVERY Leaf proposal.

I'm not desperate at all to get rid of him. I just realize the nature of our situation. We have a bunch of young players and by the time we are contending, JVR will be close to or over 30. He's on a great contract right now and has good production. Might as well get value for him now while we can.

 

[dkollidas]

To Winnepeg:
D- B. Smith
D- X. Ouellet
W- G. Nyquist

To Detroit:
D- J. Trouba
D- B. Chiarot

Red Wings get the young #1 defenseman they want, a lefty to go on the 2nd or 3rd pair while Ericsson & Kronwall are out, and shed some cap.

Winnepeg gets a guy who can be a top-4 LD, a top line winger, allowing for great forward depth, and a guy who can be the 7th defenseman this year, but projects as a top-4 guy within 1-2 years.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Brady Skjei & 2nd round pick for Trouba

Rangers don't have a 2017 2nd round pick, And i seriously doubt that Cheveldayoff will settle for a 2018 2nd rounder.

 

[4thline]

Fowler alone doesn't match Chevy's stated demand......so you just answered your own question. If Chevy traded Trouba for Fowler straight up he would be chased out of the city by fans with pitchforks and rope. Fowler is FAR from a desirable return for Trouba. Fowler straight up is a easy pass from Jets.

Yes he does. LHD of similar age and ability. Proven top 4 with potential for more. Maybe not the Jets fan interpretation of "one of maybe 5 dmen in the league that we find acceptable and match our exact specifications, all of which are either very arguably better, or signed long term cheaply, or both, none of which would make sense for the other team to trade"

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

To Winnepeg:
D- B. Smith
D- X. Ouellet
W- G. Nyquist

To Detroit:
D- J. Trouba
D- B. Chiarot

Red Wings get the young #1 defenseman they want, a lefty to go on the 2nd or 3rd pair while Ericsson & Kronwall are out, and shed some cap.

Winnepeg gets a guy who can be a top-4 LD, a top line winger, allowing for great forward depth, and a guy who can be the 7th defenseman this year, but projects as a top-4 guy within 1-2 years.

If this would be the kind of deal that Cheveldayoff would be happy with, I would do this deal in a heartbeat and pair DDK-Trouba together that would be a pretty nice top pairing there.

 

[LTIR]

Fowler alone doesn't match Chevy's stated demand......so you just answered your own question. If Chevy traded Trouba for Fowler straight up he would be chased out of the city by fans with pitchforks and rope. Fowler is FAR from a desirable return for Trouba. Fowler straight up is a easy pass from Jets.

If Fowler was the only option, sooner see Chevy get an older cheap but serviceable top 4 LHD with a couple years left via trade for a pick or prospect. Then trade Trouba for the BPA aka a forward. This gets us good value and gives our young LHD time to develop more. Not giving away Trouba for bits & pieces or taking reduced value in Fowler.

Whats wrong with Fowler?
IMO Jets would be lucky to get a legit top 4 Dman like Fowler in return for the disgruntled.

A deal would have been made if a GM was willing to give up a legit top 4 young Dman. I would expect a return lesser than Hamilton considering Trouba's out request, his agent and his salary demands.

 

[WaveRaven]

Yes he does. LHD of similar age and ability. Proven top 4 with potential for more. Maybe not the Jets fan interpretation of "one of maybe 5 dmen in the league that we find acceptable and match our exact specifications, all of which are either very arguably better, or signed long term cheaply, or both, none of which would make sense for the other team to trade"

Trouba > Fowler.

Fowler could have been had a long time ago if chevy wanted him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Fowler alone doesn't match Chevy's stated demand......so you just answered your own question. If Chevy traded Trouba for Fowler straight up he would be chased out of the city by fans with pitchforks and rope. Fowler is FAR from a desirable return for Trouba. Fowler straight up is a easy pass from Jets.

If Fowler was the only option, sooner see Chevy get an older cheap but serviceable top 4 LHD with a couple years left via trade for a pick or prospect. Then trade Trouba for the BPA aka a forward. This gets us good value and gives our young LHD time to develop more. Not giving away Trouba for bits & pieces or taking reduced value in Fowler.

How do you figure that Fowler doesn't fit Chevy's demands. Fowler is 24 years old a top 4 LHD offensive D-man Fowler easily fits into what Chevy would want even more so then say Krug or even Gardiner would.

 

[Hunter368]

Injuries, poor pre-season performances, failure of that team to get a contract or extension done for their LHD, similar trade request, etcetera.

Chevy may not get exactly a one for one deal like he desires. But he won't be in a rush that's a certainty. This man drinks molasses for breakfast.

My guess is that he WON'T get his one for one LHD and it's either Nurse from EDM or Chychrun from ARI, other pieces added as required.

You are correct, seems fans from other teams have less patience then Jets fans or team. Chevy will be in no hurry here, I don't even look at my phone for a trade each day b/c I'm expecting this not to be resolved until possibly as late as mid Nov. Either Chevy will get what he wants or Trouba will sign (resulting in a trade in the future) or Chevy will trade Trouba for the BPA (forward) and make a separate trade for a older cheap serviceable top 4 LHD with a couple years left (giving our LHD prospects a couple more years to develop).

 

[MikeModano9]

Eh? 15-16 Pastrnak in 80games = Eberle.

Required actions: Learn to play worse defense. Stay healthy.

Sounds like Pastrnak got this one in the bag already.

Stay healthy? Ebs has missed like 15 games in the last 3 years. The Same 15-16 where Pastrnak who got 26pts in 51games last year? Never played a full season before.. I know he's shown potential but he's not even close to Eberle level right now. In the future he could be though. Eberle had 119pts in his first 2 seasons. Pasta had 56.

 

[Liferleafer]

Because he doesn't want to play in Winnipeg. His agent said they would work to facilitate a deal with a suitable team. Have you not been paying attention?

By easy as pie deal i meant trade. Most Jets fans seem to think his lack of contract isn't a problem...well it is. And ya, i have been paying attention from:
Stage 1: Trouba is NEVER getting traded.

Stage 2: Well..he hasn't signed yet..but he will!!

Stage 3: What? He asked to be traded?? Screw this kid! Let him rot!!

Stage 4: We will only trade our whiney no contract kid for a better LHD signed long term...teams will line up for that!!

Stage 5: To be announced.

 

[LTIR]

Trouba > Fowler.

Fowler could have been had a long time ago if chevy wanted him.

Trouba is not netting someone "better" than him... Do you really think the Jets are in a position to win a deal here?

If I was a Jets fan I would be expecting a Hamilton like return and be happy if I got something more. I highly doubt Jets get someone like Fowler in return. It will probably a package of futures from a team like DET.

 

[Liferleafer]

Trouba > Fowler.

Fowler could have been had a long time ago if chevy wanted him.

Ya...because the Ducks are looking to pay Trouba more than Fowler...all while still needing to clear cap to sign Lindholm/Rakell.....and not improving thier scoring....makes perfect sense.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

All your scenarios still require an impatient GM to step up and sell his future for the right now.

I know it's possible, I'm just skeptical there are that many GM's that are a) that bad at their jobs or b) on the hot seat that feel they need to make a huge move to keep their job.

I recognize that Chevy is going to slow play this, I'm just very skeptical that he's going to get what he wants.

And I agree with you, especially on the last point. There is a small chance he gets the coveted young, top 4 LHD on a one for one trade. I suspect he winds up settling for a high potential young LHD with a pick or second prospect.

 

[Dk61388]

1) Didn't the Rangers already trade their 2nd round pick? 2) I'd be surprised if the Jet's received an offer that only included Skjei and a pick. I would think other teams would offer more.

Ottawas second in '18 they sent us in brassard deal.

 

[Mamas Mustard]

Rangers don't have a 2017 2nd round pick, And i seriously doubt that Cheveldayoff will settle for a 2018 2nd rounder.

If I remember correctly, the Rangers got a 2017 2nd Rd pick from Ottawa in the Brassard/Zibanejad trade.

Is that trade doable? I'm sure it wouldn't be the best offer on the table.

Edit: NVM, it's 2018 2nd rounder

 

[Jeti]

Injuries, poor pre-season performances, failure of that team to get a contract or extension done for their LHD, similar trade request, etcetera.

Chevy may not get exactly a one for one deal like he desires. But he won't be in a rush that's a certainty. This man drinks molasses for breakfast.

My guess is that he WON'T get his one for one LHD and it's either Nurse from EDM or Chychrun from ARI, other pieces added as required.

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

 

[WaveRaven]

Ya...because the Ducks are looking to pay Trouba more than Fowler...all while still needing to clear cap to sign Lindholm/Rakell.....and not improving thier scoring....makes perfect sense.

I never said trade trouba 4 fowler.

Chevy knew trouba was not reporting he could have traded for fowler somewhat solving the left side and opened up the posible returns for trouble.

My guess is they arent interested.

 

[Hunter368]

Whats wrong with Fowler?
IMO Jets would be lucky to get a legit top 4 Dman like Fowler in return for the disgruntled.

A deal would have been made if a GM was willing to give up a legit top 4 young Dman. I would expect a return lesser than Hamilton considering Trouba's out request, his agent and his salary demands.

How do you figure that Fowler doesn't fit Chevy's demands. Fowler is 24 years old a top 4 LHD offensive D-man Fowler easily fits into what Chevy would want even more so then say Krug or even Gardiner would.

Yes he does. LHD of similar age and ability. Proven top 4 with potential for more. Maybe not the Jets fan interpretation of "one of maybe 5 dmen in the league that we find acceptable and match our exact specifications, all of which are either very arguably better, or signed long term cheaply, or both, none of which would make sense for the other team to trade"

- Fowler has two years before UFA, our window doesn't even open until Fowler is gone.
- Secondly, it's very debatable that Fowler has similar ability, the majority of Jets fans who seen him play and using analytics are not fans of Fowler.

He's far from an ideal choice, very debatable if he even matches Chevy's requirements.

 

[dracom]

- Fowler has two years before UFA, our window doesn't even open until Fowler is gone.
- Secondly, it's very debatable that Fowler has similar ability, the majority of Jets fans who seen him play and using analytics are not fans of Fowler.

He's far from an ideal choice, very debatable if he even matches Chevy's requirements.

You know you guys can't be picky right? Trouba wants out, has a terrible agent, and is asking a ton for what he brings. You would be lucky to get Fowler at this point.

 

[briererocks]

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

If trouba is playing behind buff and Myers how is he a top pairing dman. That is why trouba wants to get traded. He views himself as a top 4 dman but is playing on the third pairing on the wrong side. It makes sense he wants to get traded.

I find it funny that Chevy has him playing third pairing minutes yet wants a young top lhd in return. I doubt Chevy is willing to pay him like a top young dman. Trouba is smart to want to get out of this situation.

 

[Hunter368]

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

Agree with post totally, but I will add one more option. Jets trade a pick or prospect for a cheap older but serviceable top 4 LHD with a couple years left (giving our LHD prospects time to develop) and trading Trouba for the BPA aka a forward.