Proposal: Trouba all encompassing trade thread - Part 2

[dracom]

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

You're not going to get a player who is better than Trouba. Jets fans need to let go of the idea of getting Lindholm at all. Especially when McKenzie already said the Ducks aren't trading Lindholm to the Jets.

 

[WaveRaven]

You know you guys can't be picky right? Trouba wants out, has a terrible agent, and is asking a ton for what he brings. You would be lucky to get Fowler at this point.

RyJo brings Jones by being patient but we should settle for a downgrade to Fowler?

 

[cneely]

You're not going to get a player who is better than Trouba. Jets fans need to let go of the idea of getting Lindholm at all. Especially when McKenzie already said the Ducks aren't trading Lindholm to the Jets.

I'm a big Trouba fan, I really think he's got the potential to be a very good number one defenceman in the near future.

There is no way he is worth Lindholm Rielly is a little closer, but I can't see Leafs fans going for it.

I would think the best the Jets can hope for is a top 4 Dman, plus a fairly significant add. Think Gardiner plus Brown or something like that. Young top 2 Dmen are pretty tough to get.

 

[Hunter368]

You know you guys can't be picky right? Trouba wants out, has a terrible agent, and is asking a ton for what he brings. You would be lucky to get Fowler at this point.

Wrong, we can be picky, nothing forces us to do anything. Trouba will be traded for what Chevy wants or sign late Nov (then traded at a later date) or Chevy will trade a pick or prospect for a older serviceable top 4 LHD guy who is cheaper to guy, buying time for our LHD prospects to develop and trade Trouba for the BPA aka a forward. Even Trouba's agent acknowledged that come mid-late Nov they would "reevaluate" not signing if it meant sitting out the entire year. Trouba won't sit out the entire year and miss getting paid 5+ million potentially that he will never get back.

 

[Maukkis]

Trouba is not netting someone "better" than him... Do you really think the Jets are in a position to win a deal here?

If I was a Jets fan I would be expecting a Hamilton like return and be happy if I got something more. I highly doubt Jets get someone like Fowler in return. It will probably a package of futures from a team like DET.

Yeah, I'd take Hamilton as a return.

 

[dracom]

RyJo brings Jones by being patient but we should settle for a downgrade to Fowler?

Not similar situations at all. One asked for a trade out, one is asking a ton of money as well.

 

[MikeRahl]

If trouba is playing behind buff and Myers how is he a top pairing dman. That is why trouba wants to get traded. He views himself as a top 4 dman but is playing on the third pairing on the wrong side. It makes sense he wants to get traded.

I find it funny that Chevy has him playing third pairing minutes yet wants a young top lhd in return. I doubt Chevy is willing to pay him like a top young dman. Trouba is smart to want to get out of this situation.

Trouba isn't playing behind Buff and Myers.

The issue is that he is RD, and wants to play RD, but the Jets based on their needs are trying to get him to play on the Left on the top pairing with Buff. He feels that will be detrimental to his development and limit his earnings when he hits unrestricted free agency (as he is a better RD than LD but people will be paying him based on him playing all this time at LD)

 

[dracom]

Wrong, we can be picky, nothing forces us to do anything. Trouba will be traded for what Chevy wants or sign late Nov (then traded at a later date) or Chevy will trade a pick or prospect for a older serviceable top 4 LHD guy who is cheaper to guy, buying time for our LHD prospects to develop and trade Trouba for the BPA aka a forward. Even Trouba's agent acknowledged that come mid-late Nov they would "reevaluate" not signing if it meant sitting out the entire year. Trouba won't sit out the entire year and miss getting paid 5+ million potentially that he will never get back.

Fair enough. But I'm going off what your own GM has said he wants in return. That doesn't involve getting an older LHD. Also, why would a team trade a serviceable LHD who I imagine would still be signed, for someone who is asking for a ton of money they don't deserve?

Based on what your own GM has said, Fowler is the only one that fits the bill. Hate Fowler all you want, but he's the best LHD that could be available.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

So here's how I understand the situation:

• Trouba doesn't actually have to be moved, trade request or no. Winnipeg doesn't seem to be in any particular hurry, at any rate.
• Winnipeg's only hole is a young high-quality LHD, and that's all they're willing to accept. Not the fans. The organization, per repeated statements.

I think that means that if you're offering something other than a young high-quality LHD as your centerpiece, you're SOL. If you don't have one to spare, perhaps you should consider looking into three-way options. (Just be aware that the Jackets will likely not be participating in same, as Murray and Werenski are off the table.)

If any Jets fans want to borrow my Ryan Johansen Trading FAQ and adapt it to the Trouba situation, please feel free.

I love the Johansen bit, but no, you're not understanding this correctly. And that's not your fault. It's due to two main factors. The first is that there's an awful tendency in today's media to do no investigation whatsoever, and sportswriters, being the bottom of the journalism barrel are significantly worse. The second is that since what they used to call web 2.0 came into being, any bumopening who decides he's a writer can pay Godaddy $6.95 and have a poorly-spelled blog, which the previously mentioned hacks will use as sources for their speculative articles, which then hit the news wire and are parroted by hackier hacks and used as the basis for even more speculative articles than the ones they're parroting.

Hope you're still with me. The Jets' biggest hole is at left defense, yes, that's true. The Jets have said nothing at all about what they're looking for to let go of Trouba. In fact their only statement was that they'll be acting to resolve the situation in a timely manner and consider Trouba to be an important asset.

I personally wouldn't be surprised to see the team take an ok LHD and a solid 3C, or a very high-end winger that could be used to get the LHD they really want. I would suspect they'd be willing to make moves and add pieces to get a Lindholm over a Fowler, or a Klefbom over a Nurse. But then again, I haven't paid my 7 bucks, so what do I know?

 

[Whileee]

I'm a big Trouba fan, I really think he's got the potential to be a very good number one defenceman in the near future.

There is no way he is worth Lindholm Rielly is a little closer, but I can't see Leafs fans going for it.

I would think the best the Jets can hope for is a top 4 Dman, plus a fairly significant add. Think Gardiner plus Brown or something like that. Young top 2 Dmen are pretty tough to get.

I don't consider Brown a significant add, especially for the Jets.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

There are many more tiers than that, some of them may just not be what the Jets or Jet fans desire.

3) The Jets add a good piece (1st round pick, Nick Petan, etc) to Trouba to get one of those coveted LHD.

4) They trade Trouba for some other good NHL asset that they may keep or trade to someone else.

5) They trade Trouba for a draft pick.

6) Etc.

 

[Jeti]

If trouba is playing behind buff and Myers how is he a top pairing dman. That is why trouba wants to get traded. He views himself as a top 4 dman but is playing on the third pairing on the wrong side. It makes sense he wants to get traded.

I find it funny that Chevy has him playing third pairing minutes yet wants a young top lhd in return. I doubt Chevy is willing to pay him like a top young dman. Trouba is smart to want to get out of this situation.

Over the last 3 years Trouba is 39th in the league for TOI/game. 22.5 minutes per game. How is that not top pairing minutes?

 

[cneely]

Fair enough. But I'm going off what your own GM has said he wants in return. That doesn't involve getting an older LHD. Also, why would a team trade a serviceable LHD who I imagine would still be signed, for someone who is asking for a ton of money they don't deserve?

Based on what your own GM has said, Fowler is the only one that fits the bill. Hate Fowler all you want, but he's the best LHD that could be available.

There have been absolutely no confirmed reports about what sort of salary Trouba is looking for. For all we know, he may be willing to sign for $4mm a year.

For a player like Trouba, I imagine a lot of GM's will be willing to put a good LHD on the table. RHD are in short supply and very coveted.

 

[Whileee]

Over the last 3 years Trouba is 39th in the league for TOI/game. 22.5 minutes per game. How is that not top pairing minutes?

Oh you, with your facts....

 

[cneely]

I don't consider Brown a significant add, especially for the Jets.

Fair enough, I guess I'm a little higher on Brown than you, and I recognize he doesn't really meet a need for the Jets. It was just a shot in the dark on value.

 

[dracom]

There have been absolutely no confirmed reports about what sort of salary Trouba is looking for. For all we know, he may be willing to sign for $4mm a year.

For a player like Trouba, I imagine a lot of GM's will be willing to put a good LHD on the table. RHD are in short supply and very coveted.

If that was true, why hasn't it happened yet? He asked for a trade in May...

 

[LTIR]

Over the last 3 years Trouba is 39th in the league for TOI/game. 22.5 minutes per game. How is that not top pairing minutes?

Top pairing minutes doesnt make you a top pairing Dman.. See Schultz, Justin and Nurse, Darnell

Trouba is NOT a top pairing Dman .. potentially yes but not right now.

 

[Asher]

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

It was just a preseason game on a split squad team and against a split squad team, but it’s notable that second year NHLer Darnell Nurse played 28 minutes in Monday night’s game against the Calgary Flames.

There’s little doubt that the Oilers coaching staff thinks the world of Nurse, with those heavy Calgary minutes and his rapid promotion to the top-pairing last year Exhibits A and B. It’s also the case that if rumours are true, the Oilers have refused to move Nurse in a deal for Winnipeg d-man Jacob Trouba, or in any other trade. The team is going all-in on Nurse. That doesn’t sound to me like he’s locked into any bottom-pairing role, at least not longer term.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...-and-brandon-davidson-move-up-the-depth-chart

"Horrible?" Really?

 

[LTIR]

There have been absolutely no confirmed reports about what sort of salary Trouba is looking for. For all we know, he may be willing to sign for $4mm a year.

For a player like Trouba, I imagine a lot of GM's will be willing to put a good LHD on the table. RHD are in short supply and very coveted.

name a few .. better than Fowler.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

RyJo brings Jones by being patient but we should settle for a downgrade to Fowler?

trouba isnt today in the same stratosphere as ryjo was, come on man

trouba is = to turris situation

 

[cneely]

If that was true, why hasn't it happened yet? He asked for a trade in May...

Making a trade is never easy. Both sides owe it to themselves to maximize value. I like a GM who doesn't pull the trigger that quickly. To be honest, I'm still a little frustrated about the Hamilton trade and I think the Bruins could have done much, much better if they were a little more patient.

 

[Psuhockey]

There have been absolutely no confirmed reports about what sort of salary Trouba is looking for. For all we know, he may be willing to sign for $4mm a year.

For a player like Trouba, I imagine a lot of GM's will be willing to put a good LHD on the table. RHD are in short supply and very coveted.

No doubt RHD's are in short supply but how does swapping out a talented LHD for a talented RHD help a team? It's a lateral move. Teams generally want to make their team better when making a trade not staying the same.

 

[cneely]

name a few .. better than Fowler.

Not a Fowler fan at all, but he'd be in the ballpark. Ducks would have to add a fairly decent piece though, IMO.

 

[Jeti]

Top pairing minutes doesnt make you a top pairing Dman.. See Schultz, Justin and Nurse, Darnell

Trouba is NOT a top pairing Dman .. potentially yes but not right now.

We can agree to disagree on how good he really is currently, but the poster I replied to said he's getting third pairing minutes so Chevy has no right to want someone who can take top-pairing minutes in return. He's been getting top-pairing minutes for 3 years and amongst the hardest (dragging Stuart to respectability and double-shifting with Buff). Wanting a replacement for those minutes is justified.

 

[4thline]

There's two tiers of possible returns:

1) a one-for-one deal for a young top-pairing LHD, e.g. Lindholm, Reilly, etc.
2) a young second-pairing LHD with an add, e.g. Gardiner, Fowler, Klefbom

Nurse and Chychrun are not even in that second tier. Nurse is horrible. Chychrun is years away from contributing in even a bottom-pairing role. Obviously, the first type of return is unlikely, but if Chevy can't even get the second, where the LHD is ready to step into a second-pairing role immediately, he should be fired. A GM can't swap a 22 year old top-pairing defenseman for anything that doesn't come close to replacing him both now and in the future and expect to keep his job. The add can only balance out a small downgrade, not a massive downgrade (Nurse) or substantial risk and delay (Chychrun).

Fairly reasonable, but when you take the generalities out of the possibilities the pickings get slimmer and the leverage fades.

1) Lindholm, Rielly, Murray, Maata- Not happening
2) Gardiner, Brodin, Fowler, Scandella, DDK, Beaulieu, Klefbom... That's just off the top of my head so I'm sure there's a couple more but the list isn't exactly huge. Then you look at team needs and who's in a position to do the deal opening a hole in the left to fill the right and the list gets shorter. Then you consider that right now the gap between these D right now is not near as large as Jets fans perceive it as, and any premium is going to be largely for potential, the value which is quite possibly going to be mitigated by the risk of him seemingly wanting to be paid for it before getting there (allegedly). Put it all together and I think that the add on 2 might not be as big as you think.