Value of: Trevor Zegras this offseason

[thedjpd]

You sound like a politician who makes up lies about his opponent and then has nerve to say that since the smoke is out there, there must be fire. That’s pretty much what this whole thread has been about since the beginning.

This thread is filled with multiple Habs fans degrading Z for everything under the sun, then declaring that due to his minimal value they could see themselves clear to offering garbage for him. Funny how that theme keeps repeating itself.

lol, sure.

You basically just said "everybody else is wrong and I'm right." Generally, if you think everybody else is the problem, the problem is you

Feel like I've been fairly objective here, but so be it. I digress. Enjoy whatever you think he'll get.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

lol, sure.

You basically just said "everybody else is wrong and I'm right." Generally, if you think everybody else is the problem, the problem is you

Feel like I've been fairly objective here, but so be it. I digress. Enjoy whatever you think he'll get.

No, that’s not what I said. There’s nothing objective about taking made up rumors and trying to use them to your advantage.

I gave you know facts about his character but they didn’t fit the narrative you wanted so you chose to pretend they aren’t true because I don’t know him personally. All while buying into the made up bullshit from people that don’t know him personally either.

There’s nothing fairly objective about your take.

 

[bleedgreen]

I didn’t say it was true, but it certainly seems to be rampant enough for him to have that perception. I have no idea if they are true or not, and frankly, neither do you.

Rampant where? I’ve never heard of him having character issues once. He’s just like everyone else, until you’ve got a real story to attach to him there’s zero reason to think that at all. There’s enough interviews and behind the scenes video on YouTube to suggest he’s a normal guy with a good personality. It’s pretty ridiculous to suggest otherwise without proof, and the burden of proof should be on whoever is accusing him of something.

 

[Kalv]

glad to see this thread continues to be terrible. other teams fans only being interested in zegras for scraps, and others just making up nonsense claims about Zegras.

People trying to wish their dreams into reality. Pat listening on offers is him doing his job, people guessing he's most likely getting traded because of that are ridiculous

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

But would Caps or Philly deal those guys 1 for 1 for Reinbacher? If the answer is no, then why does it matter if they would for Zegras? I'm pretty sure Philly wouldn't, not sure about Caps but doesn't sound like they would either based on how he's valued.

Not sure but the point is more Montreal could have had either of them and chose Reinbacher, in their mind he’s more valuable or at least was

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

I hate agreeing with Oiler fans, but you're dead right. He's Mike Ribeiro.

An oilers fan, a flames fan and a nucks fan walk into a bar. There's a punchline there but we live in a PC world but I agree Zegras is a guy I'd want absolutely nothing to do with.
I would bet my arss that he's not a well liked teammate and would be next to useless on a good team that demands defense and accountability.
He nothing more than a meme.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

An oilers fan, a flames fan and a nucks fan walk into a bar. There's a punchline there but we live in a PC world but I agree Zegras is a guy I'd want absolutely nothing to do with.
I would bet my arss that he's not a well liked teammate and would be next to useless on a good team that demands defense and accountability.
He nothing more than a meme.

Damn. Just like that huh?

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

This is why coaches get hired, to help kids make better players of themselves.
Most pros now, all have to learn te 200ft game. Very few of them come out from Jr knowing how to play the 200ft game.

While you're not wrong Zegras isn't a rookie, nor was he drafted as a project. Duck fans like every fan base see things differently about their own players but Zegras has been trending down offensively from a likely combo of him being held more accountable and a lack of adjusting as teams get a book on him, happens all the time. He's all coc*k no balls a one dimensional, small forward who's name value is still keeping him relevent.
Ducks have a very bright future and have already corrected one mistake by trading JD and if some GM thinks he can fix Zegras like so many guys think they can change their stripper GF with all the guys who call at 2am and are " just friends" he should do it immediately.

 

[Boo Boo]

While you're not wrong Zegras isn't a rookie, nor was he drafted as a project. Duck fans like every fan base see things differently about their own players but Zegras has been trending down offensively from a likely combo of him being held more accountable and a lack of adjusting as teams get a book on him, happens all the time. He's all coc*k no balls a one dimensional, small forward who's name value is still keeping him relevent.
Ducks have a very bright future and have already corrected one mistake by trading JD and if some GM thinks he can fix Zegras like so many guys think they can change their stripper GF with all the guys who call at 2am and are " just friends" he should do it immediately.

your assessment is completely wrong but go off

 

[BLONG7]

An oilers fan, a flames fan and a nucks fan walk into a bar. There's a punchline there but we live in a PC world but I agree Zegras is a guy I'd want absolutely nothing to do with.
I would bet my arss that he's not a well liked teammate and would be next to useless on a good team that demands defense and accountability.
He nothing more than a meme.

You seem to be making a ton of assumptions?
Dangerous man.....remember these hockey players are millionaire kids, so...................
Why does Verbeek not like this kid? Keeping in mind, Pat Verbeek was a bit of a turd himself back in the day.

 

[Habs Halifax]

People trying to wish their dreams into reality. Pat listening on offers is him doing his job, people guessing he's most likely getting traded because of that are ridiculous

I think the smoke other fans are bouncing forward is a little deeper than what you are saying. Truth is usually in the middle somewhere.

 

[Habs Halifax]

While you're not wrong Zegras isn't a rookie, nor was he drafted as a project. Duck fans like every fan base see things differently about their own players but Zegras has been trending down offensively from a likely combo of him being held more accountable and a lack of adjusting as teams get a book on him, happens all the time. He's all coc*k no balls a one dimensional, small forward who's name value is still keeping him relevent.
Ducks have a very bright future and have already corrected one mistake by trading JD and if some GM thinks he can fix Zegras like so many guys think they can change their stripper GF with all the guys who call at 2am and are " just friends" he should do it immediately.

Contract dispute started it all. Didn't have a good start to the season and then got injured. Came back towards the end of the season but didn't really gain much momentum. Played better in his last 10 games ish. Then went to the WC's and that was not a good performance. You would have thought that by playing with more talent and a fresh change from his rough season, he would have performed well with lots of energy. Didn't happen. Not something to overly pump or deflate but it's good context non the less.

Then you keep hearing credible rumors that the Ducks are listening to offers in Zegras trade talks. You can't blame fans for seeing the smoke on this. This to me is like a 50/50 chance he stays or is traded. Not like other situations where it's a 90/10 chance they stay.

Now, you have to ask yourself, what kind of forward is he? Is he a 50-60 guy or is he a 60-80 guy. Other fans will say 50-60 and Ducks fans will say 60-80. Subjective opinions. His career numbers are prorated 60 pts over 211 games. Personally, that's the trade value I would set it too. I wouldn't lower it or increase it.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Contract dispute started it all. Didn't have a good start to the season and then got injured. Came back towards the end of the season but didn't really gain much momentum. Played better in his last 10 games ish. Then went to the WC's and that was not a good performance. You would have thought that by playing with more talent and a fresh change from his rough season, he would have performed well with lots of energy. Didn't happen. Not something to overly pump or deflate but it's good context non the less.

Then you keep hearing credible rumors that the Ducks are listening to offers in Zegras trade talks. You can't blame fans for seeing the smoke on this. This to me is like a 50/50 chance he stays or is traded. Not like other situations where it's a 90/10 chance they stay.

Now, you have to ask yourself, what kind of forward is he? Is he a 50-60 guy or is he a 60-80 guy. Other fans will say 50-60 and Ducks fans will say 60-80. Subjective opinions. His career numbers are prorated 60 pts over 211 games. Personally, that's the trade value I would set it too. I wouldn't lower it or increase it.

Meh he’s 23 year old player , it’s still very possible and even likely he bumps up. Also we’re both admitting that he had a rough season due to contract negotiations/injuries and maybe just not excelling, which impacts his average.

I don’t think it’s fair take to say caufield is a 60 point player because that’s his average at 23

Nick Suzuki made his bump up to 70 at 24
Matt tkachuk had his bump at 24

I think if a team is trying to get him at a 60 point value, then he won’t be moved and there isn’t really a point to move him

 

[Habs Halifax]

Meh he’s 23 year old player , it’s still very possible and even likely he bumps up. Also we’re both admitting that he had a rough season due to contract negotiations/injuries and maybe just not excelling, which impacts his average.

I don’t think it’s fair take to say caufield is a 60 point player because that’s his average at 23

Nick Suzuki made his bump up to 70 at 24
Matt tkachuk had his bump at 24

I think if a team is trying to get him at a 60 point value, then he won’t be moved and there isn’t really a point to move him

It's always a risk/reward calculation. Yes, it's possible players like Zegras and Caufield get better and move their point total average up but's also possible they don't. Listing players who do grow and improve doesn't quantify it. It only shows the ones who do.

Usually, a players value is a trend. Zegras still has good skill and good trade value but he's not on the right trend. It's not like he don't have top 6F value but it's not some sure shot top 6F value where you have lots of confidence he turns into a 60-80 or more type. That kind of thing and that also applies to Caufield.

Today, I'm willing to pay the 60 pts trade value (Zegras's career average so far). Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

It's always a risk/reward calculation. Yes, it's possible players like Zegras and Caufield get better and move their point total average up but's also possible they don't. Listing players who do grow and improve doesn't quantify it. It only shows the ones who do.

Usually, a players value is a trend. Zegras still has good skill and good trade value but he's not on the right trend. It's not like he don't have top 6F value but it's not some sure shot top 6F value where you have lots of confidence he turns into a 60-80 or more type. That kind of thing and that also applies to Caufield.

Today, I'm willing to pay the 60 pts (Zegras's career average so far). Nothing more, nothing less.

What does 60 point player value look like in your opinion? Putting him as under 60 is pretty disingenuous imo, and hes already topped 60 twice, and this season had his issues.

cause again anaheim isnt really in a rush to move him and if the right fits arnt there than it wont happen. Im going to mostly say if he isnt getting more than dach returned... i dont think there is a deal to be made.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What does 60 point player value look like in your opinion?

cause again anaheim isnt really in a rush to move him and if the right fits arnt there than it wont happen.

That's difficult to nail down because even between Caufield and Zegras, we are talking two different types. With Caufield, I feel comfortable he puts up several 30+ goal seasons. With Zegras, not sure how much 30+ goal seasons he has but I do feel he remains a 60 pts player.

It's fair and only a conversation. If you want 60-80 pts or more in trade value, keep him because I don't see teams going all in with the hope he becomes that. Usually, if the player had high probability to grow and become that 60-80+ type, the team usually keeps them right?

Skill combined with lack of grit is a factor with Zegras. If he was more on the nasty side with good physical strength/weight, you would have a line-up for him and a bidding war. However, if he was that type, I think all this trade talk would not be there because the Ducks would consider him untouchable.

 

[FiveTacos]

While you're not wrong Zegras isn't a rookie, nor was he drafted as a project. Duck fans like every fan base see things differently about their own players but Zegras has been trending down offensively from a likely combo of him being held more accountable and a lack of adjusting as teams get a book on him, happens all the time.

Trending down? It came out he played with a LBI most of the year, and didn't truly get to fully rest it until forced to by the broken ankle. And throughout he got credit from most observers for trying to work harder on defense and without the puck.

The only time he was 100% was the last few weeks, when he probably played the best hockey of his career, on both ends of the ice.

Unless the injury bug is going to become chronic, he's not trending down.

 

[japhi]

I sure hope MTL makes a big push for Zegras, but valuation is so difficult. Have no doubt last year was an outlier. But what is his true upside? One dimensional 70 point player? What is a guy like that worth?

For the system MTL plays, and how well players have plugged into MSL's system, I think Zegras would look great. And the franchise has always lacked high end talent, so it's a no brainer to take some risk on a deal. And MTL has stacks of picks and some good prospects, lots of assets to make a move.

 

[HabsAddict]

Contract dispute started it all. Didn't have a good start to the season and then got injured. Came back towards the end of the season but didn't really gain much momentum. Played better in his last 10 games ish. Then went to the WC's and that was not a good performance. You would have thought that by playing with more talent and a fresh change from his rough season, he would have performed well with lots of energy. Didn't happen. Not something to overly pump or deflate but it's good context non the less.

Then you keep hearing credible rumors that the Ducks are listening to offers in Zegras trade talks. You can't blame fans for seeing the smoke on this. This to me is like a 50/50 chance he stays or is traded. Not like other situations where it's a 90/10 chance they stay.

Now, you have to ask yourself, what kind of forward is he? Is he a 50-60 guy or is he a 60-80 guy. Other fans will say 50-60 and Ducks fans will say 60-80. Subjective opinions. His career numbers are prorated 60 pts over 211 games. Personally, that's the trade value I would set it too. I wouldn't lower it or increase it.

The problem is that the cost in assets is so high, that if there are any questions, the risk factor is too high.

He comes to the Habs and plays as a 80 point, 200ft center. Fantastic., he's worth a 5th and more. But there is a very real chance that he's a 50 point center if he has to actually play a 200 ft game. Or worse, disgruntled/disinterested.

If we want high risk and potential high reward at a lower cost, a player like Sennecke is there with the same type of talent, that may or may NOT turn into a better Zegras, If he's past 10OA, perhaps a package of two late first and a defenseman is enough to get him. MUCH better risk/reward then an established player who is a few years from FA and huge contract.

I like Z but he scares me. I rather trade for Foester/Farabee and the like then Z.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The problem is that the cost in assets is so high, that if there are any questions, the risk factor is too high.

He comes to the Habs and plays as a 80 point, 200ft center. Fantastic., he's worth a 5th and more. But there is a very real chance that he's a 50 point center if he has to actually play a 200 ft game. Or worse, disgruntled/disinterested.

If we want high risk and potential high reward at a lower cost, a player like Sennecke is there with the same type of talent, that may or may NOT turn into a better Zegras, If he's past 10OA, perhaps a package of two late first and a defenseman is enough to get him. MUCH better risk/reward then an established player who is a few years from FA and huge contract.

I like Z but he scares me. I rather trade for Foester/Farabee and the like then Z.

It's not that complicated for me. If has to be a deal we can afford and it's very possible the Habs might have to do another deal like the Dach trade (Romanov for 13th with Islanders) to make this work.

We are not trading the 5th OA, Guhle or probably not Reinbacher. I just don't see this happening. However, we might try to use other pieces to get our hands on the 10th or 11th and try to use that to get Zegras... or we see who is still on the board.

Basically, I see this similar to the Dach trade. Hawks didn't want Romanov but they said the price is 13th or something close to that. Habs had to make another deal to get it.

 

[anezthes]

If you want 60-80 pts or more in trade value, keep him because I don't see teams going all in with the hope he becomes that.

He's already got two 60+ point seasons, with 61 and 65 points at ages 21 and 22, respectively. With natural growth, better linemates, a functional power play, and it's hard not to imagine a (big) statistical jump.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's already got two 60+ point seasons, with 61 and 65 points at ages 21 and 22, respectively. With natural growth, better linemates, a functional power play, and it's hard not to imagine a (big) statistical jump.

Yes, his career averages is basically 60 pts and he has two 60+ seasons. Sorry, that's what I am offering. 60 pts ish. Not paying for growth on a player that is not trending that well. I really don't care about give him a break in his injury season. I was waiting for him to shine at the WC's by playing with talent and a fresh change from his rough season. Didn't happen. He was not good at all for the US in that tournament. If he ended up one of the leaders or shined, I'd have a different opinion on your growth narrative today.

If you want 60-80+ trade value, you might as well keep him. I don't see many teams reaching on that. But like I said, I would give 60 pts trade value. Whatever we agree to what that is.

If you believe he will rebound and grow to 70+, keep him and try to trade him when he is trending better.

 

[Ducks]

If there's anything I trust about Verbeek it's that he won't trade Zegras at a discount, if he trades him at all. It would be stupid for Verbeek to give up on Z and sell low, at worst he'll be a 60pt winger who is loved by fans and his teammates, there's always a place for players like that. There's also literally no indication that Verbeek is upset with or fed up with Z in any way. I highly doubt that Z is going anywhere this year, and next year will depend greatly on how he does this season.

 

[HabsAddict]

It's not that complicated for me. If has to be a deal we can afford and it's very possible the Habs might have to do another deal like the Dach trade (Romanov for 13th with Islanders) to make this work.

We are not trading the 5th OA, Guhle or probably not Reinbacher. I just don't see this happening. However, we might try to use other pieces to get our hands on the 10th or 11th and try to use that to get Zegras... or we see who is still on the board.

Basically, I see this similar to the Dach trade. Hawks didn't want Romanov but they said the price is 13th or something close to that. Habs had to make another deal to get it.

I doubt we get Z for 10-15 OA.

Regardless, at 10th or so, I pick Sennecke and say thanks for the coffee and donuts, but pass on Z. Same type of player that may or may not be better then Z. Or Catton.

There are so many 6 to 15 mid level picks that have top 4 and top 6 potential.

 

[anezthes]

Not paying for growth on a player that is not trending that well.

I think that's a terrible take, but to each their own.

...you might as well keep him.

I mean, if it were up to me, I'd have signed him to an 8-year contract and given him the 'C'.