Player Discussion Trevor Zegras : Part III

[robbieboy3686]

Next week will be interesting. Carlsson has played twice this week, so he won’t play Friday Vs Philadelphia.

San Jose on Sunday, at Nashville Tuesday , at Colorado Wednesday, vs Florida Friday.

We know he won’t play one of Tuesday/Wednesday because it’s a back to back. So does he sit vs Sharks for a 6 day break then play at nashville, or instead play Wednesday in Colorado for a 7 day break, or play vs Sharks and then Friday vs Philadelphia for a 4 day break, game, 4 day break.

I would vote for the San Jose and Philly games for both selfish reasons and also having equal workout breaks and not be off games too long. Maybe even stay home to work out?

Interesting conundrum. Wish we knew exactly what their fitness plans really were.

I would let him play Sunday next wed and Friday. But there’s a chance he won’t play in the next 2. Friday logical rest day and v sharks maybe it’s seen as a game where we don’t need him against a lowly sharks to win.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Hate to beat a dead horse but nobody can convince me that him being late to camp isn't a factor in his lack of production so far. Cronin is on him in a good way and you can definitely see him improving defensively but he's got to produce offense that's what he's paid for

 

[KyleJRM]

And yet right now z is better at both. What happened to guys earning their jobs. The fact that Carlsson was 2nd overall pick shouldn't affect how the players are treated.

What evidence is there that he poorly suited at center? Honestly. You don't have to be big to be good at faceoffs or good defensively. Getzlaf was huge and he was never a faceoff juggernaut or was he a defensive mastermind. Z is literally doing everything he's been asked of him.

Youre suggesting the double standard is okay. I can see why and dont disagree that Calrsson is an important player for us but double standards are a bad precedent. Its a bad message. It hurts competiveness and fosters resentment which will hurt teamwork. These players are human and just saying do your job will have bad results.

I'd say it's fair argument but also doesn't make it right. See my comments above.

Yes, we're paying Z to get better defensively. But what are we rewarding him with? Taking away his preferred position? Reducing his ice time and role? Putting him In a position the with frustrate him long term? You're right that it's still early and there is plenty of things to play out. But I think it's important not to ignore the short term with long term blinders. There is a balance there. I'm not sure we're doing a great job of it right now.

If we aren't doing different standards for players based on their scouted ability, then the forward with 2 points in 12 games and the worst +/- on the team should be seeing some press box time.

But obviously that won't happen because his potential and continued development are more important than treating him the exact same as max Jones.

 

[Reveille1984]

If we aren't doing different standards for players based on their scouted ability, then the forward with 2 points in 12 games and the worst +/- on the team should be seeing some press box time.

But obviously that won't happen because his potential and continued development are more important than treating him the exact same as max Jones.

Yeah, Carlsson is basically a 1OA level talent in many of the most recent NHL drafts, 2023 was just a stacked class. Of course he's going to get handled differently based on his pedigree and the role he was drafted for, especially when Verbeek let it be known that he'd be in the NHL for the year instead of the SHL. He was drafted as a franchise 1C, and they're going to get him as much top line experience as possible as long as it isn't messing with his confidence or development.

There's not really much to be said if Zegras is "frustrated long term" at playing wing (which there's zero evidence for). Carlsson/McTavish are the future at 1C/2C, so what other options do we have? They aren't going to throw him on the third line with our lack of forward talent, and he probably actually would be unhappy with that given he's trying to prove he can be a top flight player in the NHL leading up to FA eligibility. You're not going to become an 80+ point $10M player anchoring the 3rd line of a rebuilding team.

 

[JAHV]

And yet right now z is better at both. What happened to guys earning their jobs. The fact that Carlsson was 2nd overall pick shouldn't affect how the players are treated.

What evidence is there that he poorly suited at center? Honestly. You don't have to be big to be good at faceoffs or good defensively. Getzlaf was huge and he was never a faceoff juggernaut or was he a defensive mastermind. Z is literally doing everything he's been asked of him.

Youre suggesting the double standard is okay. I can see why and dont disagree that Calrsson is an important player for us but double standards are a bad precedent. Its a bad message. It hurts competiveness and fosters resentment which will hurt teamwork. These players are human and just saying do your job will have bad results.

I'd say it's fair argument but also doesn't make it right. See my comments above.

Yes, we're paying Z to get better defensively. But what are we rewarding him with? Taking away his preferred position? Reducing his ice time and role? Putting him In a position the with frustrate him long term? You're right that it's still early and there is plenty of things to play out. But I think it's important not to ignore the short term with long term blinders. There is a balance there. I'm not sure we're doing a great job of it right now.

Sorry, getting to this late, but I have to question this statement. You're right that Getzlaf wasn't a faceoff juggernaut, but he eventually learned how to do it well. He was above 50% over the last 8 years of his career. But the part about not being a defensive mastermind is wrong. Getzlaf wasn't Patrice Bergeron, but he got Selke votes in 8 different seasons. That doesn't happen unless you're very well respected as a great defensive forward.

 

[70sSanO]

To cut to the chase, Zegras had almost 6 months to work on his game, get stronger, come into this year with much more than he left with last season.

If a player wants to be a franchise player with salary to match, he has to work during the off-season and make real improvements, not play better defense but can’t score. Show Mgmt he is serious. He didn’t. That is my biggest disappointment.

I see McTavish and think, now that’s someone who is taking his career seriously.

John

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

To cut to the chase, Zegras had almost 6 months to work on his game, get stronger, come into this year with much more than he left with last season.

If a player wants to be a franchise player with salary to match, he has to work during the off-season and make real improvements, not play better defense but can’t score. Show Mgmt he is serious. He didn’t. That is my biggest disappointment.

I see McTavish and think, now that’s someone who is taking his career seriously.

John

What did Z do differently than Mac?

 

[70sSanO]

What did Z do differently than Mac?

I have no idea what Zegras did during the off-season. It looks like he did nothing.

Can’t say what McTavish did, but he is driving his line. He is a force.

Every time I see Zegras he 20ft from the goal and thinking, hard to pull off a Michigan from there.

John

 

[robbieboy3686]

To cut to the chase, Zegras had almost 6 months to work on his game, get stronger, come into this year with much more than he left with last season.

If a player wants to be a franchise player with salary to match, he has to work during the off-season and make real improvements, not play better defense but can’t score. Show Mgmt he is serious. He didn’t. That is my biggest disappointment.

I see McTavish and think, now that’s someone who is taking his career seriously.

John

+1

 

[JonathnTaylorTavares]

To cut to the chase, Zegras had almost 6 months to work on his game, get stronger, come into this year with much more than he left with last season.

If a player wants to be a franchise player with salary to match, he has to work during the off-season and make real improvements, not play better defense but can’t score. Show Mgmt he is serious. He didn’t. That is my biggest disappointment.

I see McTavish and think, now that’s someone who is taking his career seriously.

John

Speculations from a La-Z-Boy in Mission Viejo

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Zegras went from being seen as the future face of the franchise to now Carlsson looking a lot more like it than him and right now McTavish looks like the face of the team. I wonder if Zegras is disappointed about that.

 

[Gliff]

To cut to the chase, Zegras had almost 6 months to work on his game, get stronger, come into this year with much more than he left with last season.

If a player wants to be a franchise player with salary to match, he has to work during the off-season and make real improvements, not play better defense but can’t score. Show Mgmt he is serious. He didn’t. That is my biggest disappointment.

I see McTavish and think, now that’s someone who is taking his career seriously.

John

You have no idea if that is the case. For all you know he literally lived at the gym and rink.

Zegras missed training camp. This is 100% standard for players that miss training camp.

 

[AngelDuck]

I think some of these Zegras takes are way overboard at this point. I’ll give him the rest of the year to get comfortable under Cronin - there’s still a ton of upside

 

[AngelDuck]

The fact is the Ducks can’t draft skilled forwards outside of the top 10 in the draft really. They NEED Zegras to work out and honestly trading him is not really an option

 

[Goose of Reason]

You have no idea if that is the case. For all you know he literally lived at the gym and rink.

Zegras missed training camp. This is 100% standard for players that miss training camp.

Verbeek literally had him do training in Florida most of the summer, and there was an interview where Chris Kreider said he was training with him and was super impressed by how hard he worked.

Per natural stat trick, when Z is on the ice the Ducks shooting percentage is 2.56%. He has the lowest PDO on the team. The guy is incredibly snakebitten and unlucky to start the year and the numbers back up the eye test on that.

 

[anezthes]

What did Z do differently than Mac?

You know that clip of Z joining practice after signing his contract? Well, if you look real close, you can see Z mouthing to Mac: "I didn't train all offseason, lol. Your mom."

 

[Ducks DVM]

The fact is the Ducks can’t draft skilled forwards outside of the top 10 in the draft really. They NEED Zegras to work out and honestly trading him is not really an option

Lundestrom, Comtois, Terry, Kase, Rakell, Wild Bill. Sam Steel. Can’t say on the last 4 years just yet. About 1 per 2 years, that’s not that bad.

Not many teams CAN consistently hit on skilled forwards outside the top 10 because players outside the top 10 have somewhat to very low chances of being NHL players period. The Ducks have suffered from having top 10 or bottom 10 picks in the first round, easier to hit on an NHL player in the 10-20 range.

But yeah, he ain’t getting traded.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Lundestrom, Comtois, Terry, Kase, Rakell, Wild Bill. Sam Steel. Can’t say on the last 4 years just yet. About 1 per 2 years, that’s not that bad.

Not many teams CAN consistently hit on skilled forwards outside the top 10 because players outside the top 10 have somewhat to very low chances of being NHL players period. The Ducks have suffered from having top 10 or bottom 10 picks in the first round, easier to hit on an NHL player in the 10-20 range.

But yeah, he ain’t getting traded.

I’m not sure I’d put Lundy and Steel in that category. The others are fine. Still, I also feel like our drafting of forwards outside the top 10 leaves something to be desired. It’s interesting because we’ve done amazingly well within the top 10 with forwards, we seem to have hit it big on all 3 chances we’ve had of late

 

[Gliff]

I’m not sure I’d put Lundy and Steel in that category. The others are fine. Still, I also feel like our drafting of forwards outside the top 10 leaves something to be desired. It’s interesting because we’ve done amazingly well within the top 10 with forwards, we seem to have hit it big on all 3 chances we’ve had of late

I am convinced that Sam Steel was ruined by the Ducks. He only had a .77 PPG in the AHL in his D+3 and then never stepped foot in the AHL again after struggling in the NHL. Just for reference, Perreault is in his D+3 and is like a .6 PPG player in the AHL. Can you imagine him being asked to do what the Ducks asked Sam to do in him first full season in the NHL?

He never should have been forced onto the big club after struggling in his rookie year, and he shouldnt have been converted into a shutdown center at the ripe age of 22.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I’m not sure I’d put Lundy and Steel in that category. The others are fine. Still, I also feel like our drafting of forwards outside the top 10 leaves something to be desired. It’s interesting because we’ve done amazingly well within the top 10 with forwards, we seem to have hit it big on all 3 chances we’ve had of late

I thought the on Steel was obvious, hence the period However, what Gliff saysis accurate - he (and Comtois) needed to be sent to the AHL and weren’t because BM wanted to not get fired.

Lundestrom I think has skill, he’s just been developed/used as a 3rd line guy with zero skill around him.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I thought the on Steel was obvious, hence the period However, what Gliff saysis accurate - he (and Comtois) needed to be sent to the AHL and weren’t because BM wanted to not get fired.

Lundestrom I think has skill, he’s just been developed/used as a 3rd line guy with zero skill around him.

I got you although I’m not sure it was so obvious because he was actually a big scorer in junior. But there were just better guys still available. Steel still had flaws in terms of speed and skill which evidently weren’t taken into account enough by the Ducks. I don’t think development was a main issue there but perhaps it was still a factor somewhat.

With Lundy it isn’t actually that big of a deal. Very few high skill guys were taken after him in that draft. It’s some of the other drafts which were a bit frustrating.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Yah Z needs to produce.. Hes getting the Minutes.. No excuses..

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I have no idea what Zegras did during the off-season. It looks like he did nothing.

Can’t say what McTavish did, but he is driving his line. He is a force.

So you're just inventing something to get annoyed at.

Every time I see Zegras he 20ft from the goal and thinking, hard to pull off a Michigan from there.

Sounds like an offseason training problem for sure.

 

[Deuce22]

My opinion on the Zegras slow scoring start in order of relevance.

1. Playing out of position
2. Focusing more on defense
3. Low shooting %
4. Missed some camp time

 

[70sSanO]

So you're just inventing something to get annoyed at.

Sounds like an offseason training problem for sure.

First of all, I want Zegras to succeed, not so much for his sake, but for the team’s benefit. I am hoping that we don’t have another season of goal drought.

Not scoring a single goal again net Pittsburg, with a backup goalie in the 3rd, conjures up nightmares of the past.

And it’s not just Zegras. When I see McTavish’s helmet getting ripped off, which should have been a game misconduct to Petterson, I’m thinking where’s everyone else?

My comment about Zegras off-season training is being hopeful that it is not a mindset. I see Brayden Point as an undersized center that has the mindset to do what he has to do to produce. Right now I don’t see it in Zegras. I don’t know how much hating to lose translates into actions to prevent it.

John