Trevor Timmins Part II

[scrubadam]

There a lot of blame to go around we had a lot of questionable pick the worst pick that come to mind would be Connor Crisp, there just no way to defend that pick... We maybe have not drafted the best player but no player are really been improving so there has to be a issues with development...
There been a few year with not much to show for 2008 (0), 2009 (0), 2010 (1), 2011 (1), 2012 (2), 2013 (4*) that a could be 8 NHL player with only 2 being impact player in 6 years but we also gave 6 of the our top 3 pick during that spand so it hard to find impact player with late picks.

There no limit the the amount of money we can't spend on scouting so we should fire Timmins but bring more people has long has they are better. Mtl should be hireing everyone and leave the scarp to other team before Toronto does...

Agree.

TT still can have value to the habs organization, it just might not be in the scouting department anymore. After 14 years of the same voice might be time to bring in someone different. It seems like TT has a different title this year so maybe his role has changed. Would be smart for Molson to groom him to maybe take MB's place one day.

 

[lou4gehrig]

Serious question: when did Mac looked like something more than a 4th liner? I never saw it.

Serious answer: Heard that MaxPac was nothing more than a 3rd liner when he was called up here, by many HFBoarders.

Go check out the MaxPac vs. Perron thread in here. McCarron has had a real pro coach for all of 2 weeks.

 

[Miller Time]

So then I guess we can say the real brains behind the operation was Gainey ? Because right around Gainey left is when the drafting hit the skids during the Gauthier and MB era. The Gauthier era was the real low point from 09-11.

Maybe we can get Gainey back because TT can't do the job without anyone else.

if you think that 09-11 was a "low point", then clearly you aren't looking objectively at drafting in the NHL.


For a team to walk away with Gallagher & Beaulieu from a 3 year draft window where they had only 3 picks in the top 100 (none in the top 10) is what you would call excellent drafting.

for comparison, in the same span, the bruins walked away from those 3 years with 3 NHL talents (Seguin, Hamilton, Spooner), despite having 9 picks in the top 100, including two top-10 (surprise surprise, seguin/Hamilton).

08 & 06 were much worse years, both under Gainey... sorry to burst your narrative bubble.



ultimately, the GM is responsible for hockey ops. Drafting falls under that. To what degree the GM empowers his head of scouting to own the draft depends on the GM. The ultimate progression and success of the players drafted is a reflection of the health of the hockey department. What is clear, is that our hockey ops is the worst its been in a while since MB took over... imo it's largely due to his poor judgement in coaching selections and asset management.

the '12 & '13 drafts are more concerning given that we had 11 picks in the top 100 and for now, only Galch as a regular NHLer out of the bunch... remains to be seen what Ghetto/Lekhonen/Hudon/Fucale/DLR are able to do (thrower/crisp/boaon/vail seem like fails at this point)

 

[scrubadam]

if you think that 09-11 was a "low point", then clearly you aren't looking objectively at drafting in the NHL.


For a team to walk away with Gallagher & Beaulieu from a 3 year draft window where they had only 3 picks in the top 100 (none in the top 10) is what you would call excellent drafting.

for comparison, in the same span, the bruins walked away from those 3 years with 3 NHL talents (Seguin, Hamilton, Spooner), despite having 9 picks in the top 100, including two top-10 (surprise surprise, seguin/Hamilton).

08 & 06 were much worse years, both under Gainey... sorry to burst your narrative bubble.



ultimately, the GM is responsible for hockey ops. Drafting falls under that. To what degree the GM empowers his head of scouting to own the draft depends on the GM. The ultimate progression and success of the players drafted is a reflection of the health of the hockey department. What is clear, is that our hockey ops is the worst its been in a while since MB took over... imo it's largely due to his poor judgement in coaching selections and asset management.

the '12 & '13 drafts are more concerning given that we had 11 picks in the top 100 and for now, only Galch as a regular NHLer out of the bunch... remains to be seen what Ghetto/Lekhonen/Hudon/Fucale/DLR are able to do (thrower/crisp/boaon/vail seem like fails at this point)

Well I agree and Timmins is part of that hockey ops and was even promoted under MB. So sometimes you have to also go the root of it all and it all starts with the players you draft. Can only polish a turd so much.

I look at 09-11 and the players that Timmins was asleep on and compare him to that. If its a high standard so be it. He missed big time and the habs are paying for it today under MB. Will the next GM be paying for Timmins 12-16 drafts? Already looking like 12 and 13 have a lot of misses with all those extra picks. Lek and thats it. Fcale/Ghetto/DLR are not going to play for the habs and odds are neither will Hudon. Ghetto so far got us Martinsens, not exactly Duchene or even Vanek there.

So I have no issue with getting rid of Sly even though guys like Ghetto/Hudon/Carr/Scherback/Mac/Beau had decent to good seasons under him. We will see how much that will change the impact players habs get.

 

[Whitesnake]

The cherry picking game is still on here. So easy to say who should have been picked 5 years or more after the draft. Compare with other teams overall work, you will see Timmins given the few high picks he got did a great job for us.

Don't look but for EVERY JOB THAT EXIST OUT THERE, that's what the bosses do to their employees....look back and tell them what they should have done differently. Somehow, that head scouting job, not only should you be praise for the great picks you made (and nowhere will your good moves be attributed to development), but you also will be excused for your bad picks (surely happened because of bad development), but now you also CANNOT be judged on your work by looking at what you did. Awesome job I tell you.

 

[montreal]

I meant it more for our recent drafts that had not been touch by our development in regards to the development vs drafting debate. Didn't seem like anything outside of Serge was getting the habs anything of note yesterday (Ghetto got us Martinsens but he aint no top 6)

I don't watch AHL much and I will defer in regards to Sly's coaching, but some of the players down there have done decent under him. Guys like Ghetto and Hudon have had good AHL seasons. Even his goalies as well. So yes his record sucks but his players have some decent perfromances, but they can't translate that to the NHL. So is that on them not being developed for the next level, or the player selected just doesn't have a higher ceiling

Im with you on this. If I am Sakic I want the guy taken 9th OVA that almost made the NHL this year. It seems like though nothing else in cupboards was tempting JS or any other GM's. Is that on TT or MB for not wanting to give. I guess we can't know since we aren't privy but I think most people would say that the habs don't have an amazing blue chip prospect pool.

Who knows what other GMs were asking for, rumors aren't worth putting stock in, but we do know that this management team has never traded a 1st round pick or any top prospects. We know MB said he has 5 and that goalies just don't hold much trade value these days. There was a rumor about Scherbak to the Nucks but who knows what is true.

What I hate about Lefebvre is how he handles some of his prospects. Would you most skilled and youngest prospect and move him to center after he just got back from being out most of the season? Then scrap the whole thing months later? It reeks of **** poor planning imo. Now i don't know how much say Lefebvre has and what he's been told to do in regards to some. Was it smart to take Leblanc off the PP and put him on the 3rd line when you had the worst PP in the league and Leblanc was one of their best players the previous season. It's not like he replaced him with a skilled player but instead he put a 4th line goon on the PP in his place. He's done that more then once. It just screams poor development to me. The goalies have been a big bright spot but I highly doubt he has much impact on that since they have a goalie coach for the AHL team. Vincent Riendeau should get more props for the work he's done down there.

The Habs have only 1 top 20 pick in the last 4 drafts, so one shouldn't expect to be able to get top talent in the league when it's a sellers market. They don't have a very good farm system, imo it's due to the lack of picks and where they are picking.

he is also the one who drafted Fischer, Leblanc, Tinordi, McCarron, Urquhart, Crisp....

Urquhart was on Savard, he was the one that raved about the pick on draft day about how good of a playoffs he had for the Rocket. But every scout is going to have lots of bad picks, it's the nature of the beast. Fischer at the time was a 6'5 smooth skating PMD, Leblanc was the USHL rookie of the Year, Tinordi who would have thought 6'6 blueliners would be out of fashion just a few years later. McCarron who's to say what he turns into. The Crisp pick I still don't get.

 

[Andrei79]

Well I agree and Timmins is part of that hockey ops and was even promoted under MB. So sometimes you have to also go the root of it all and it all starts with the players you draft. Can only polish a turd so much.

I look at 09-11 and the players that Timmins was asleep on and compare him to that. If its a high standard so be it. He missed big time and the habs are paying for it today under MB. Will the next GM be paying for Timmins 12-16 drafts? Already looking like 12 and 13 have a lot of misses with all those extra picks. Lek and thats it. Fcale/Ghetto/DLR are not going to play for the habs and odds are neither will Hudon. Ghetto so far got us Martinsens, not exactly Duchene or even Vanek there.

So I have no issue with getting rid of Sly even though guys like Ghetto/Hudon/Carr/Scherback/Mac/Beau had decent to good seasons under him. We will see how much that will change the impact players habs get.

Why is Bergevin exempt from the draft criticism if he promoted Timmins ?

 

[DAChampion]

Don't look but for EVERY JOB THAT EXIST OUT THERE, that's what the bosses do to their employees....look back and tell them what they should have done differently. Somehow, that head scouting job, not only should you be praise for the great picks you made (and nowhere will your good moves be attributed to development), but you also will be excused for your bad picks (surely happened because of bad development), but now you also CANNOT be judged on your work by looking at what you did. Awesome job I tell you.

No, a lot of bosses look at the big picture and assess overall performance.

 

[Whitesnake]

No, a lot of bosses look at the big picture and assess overall performance.

Yeah, there are surely bosses that look at what you did 10 years ago to tell you how great you are right now. Would love to meet those. But most of them, will indeed assess overall performance....but they might have use a shorter period of time to assess it. And while you can't judge a head scout exactly the same way you'd just a salesman, you STILL need results and you WON'T drool over something that happens 10 years ago.

And if your employee tells you that from 08 to 11, poor him, he had nothing to work with, you sure as hell is waiting till 2012 and 2013 reveals themselves....but I guess there will be another excuse for those 2. Awesome job. Strange though....some head scouts and scouts have been fired in the past. You really hope that they had the same basis of evaluation which is everybody's past 14 years.....somehow I doubt that.

Tell me this....people keep coming back with the Price pick and the 2007 to tell us how incredible he is....what's the expiry date on this? Let say he continues that way he's doing since 2008, 1 good NHL'er here and then but no 2007 repeat in sight.....what year will the ''overall performance'' start to show that he might be struggling? Or is he the head scout for life because of that draft?

When in 1998 we drafted Ribeiro, Beauchemin, Markov and Ryder (imagine if we would have picked Gagné instead of Chouinard), or when we picked Cassels, Desjardins, Leclair, Schneider in 1987 or Svoboda, Corson, Richer and Roy in 1984? Would you have given Dorion or Boudrias a job for life too?

 

[1909]

On this board. it seems like we can crap on anyone in the organization except: Subban, TT and Galchenyuk. These ones are untouchabable. They are perfect. Can't do no wrong.

 

[Lebowski]

On this board. it seems like we can crap on anyone in the organization except: Subban, TT and Galchenyuk. These ones are untouchabable. They are perfect. Can't do no wrong.

If they can't do no wrong, it means they're always wrong.

Which, ironically, it seems like some people on this board will defend anyone in the organization except for these three. They can do no right.

 

[scrubadam]

Who knows what other GMs were asking for, rumors aren't worth putting stock in, but we do know that this management team has never traded a 1st round pick or any top prospects. We know MB said he has 5 and that goalies just don't hold much trade value these days. There was a rumor about Scherbak to the Nucks but who knows what is true.

I agree we don't know. If we go by HF (which doesn't say alot) Habs prospects are not highly valued. Again doesn't tell us what a GM thinks. OTOH a guy like Ghetto went on waivers twice and was traded for Martinsens. We can say Ghetto didn't have much value. Mac OTOH was rumoured to go for Hanzel so maybe he does have some value.

What I hate about Lefebvre is how he handles some of his prospects. Would you most skilled and youngest prospect and move him to center after he just got back from being out most of the season? Then scrap the whole thing months later? It reeks of **** poor planning imo. Now i don't know how much say Lefebvre has and what he's been told to do in regards to some. Was it smart to take Leblanc off the PP and put him on the 3rd line when you had the worst PP in the league and Leblanc was one of their best players the previous season. It's not like he replaced him with a skilled player but instead he put a 4th line goon on the PP in his place. He's done that more then once. It just screams poor development to me. The goalies have been a big bright spot but I highly doubt he has much impact on that since they have a goalie coach for the AHL team. Vincent Riendeau should get more props for the work he's done down there.

I don't watch AHL so I cant comment. And I wont say Sly is a great coach I am sure he does baffeling things, all coaches do. TM in EDM might play DD on the 1st PP wave even though it was a failure here with MT. But looking at player stats some of our prospects have put together good seasons. So for every Leblanc there is a Ghetto or Hudon who tear up the AHL. Is that because of Sly or talent? Both or neither but Leblanc is getting the same Sly as Ghetto/Hudon/Carr and one couldn't do well in the AHL and the others have.

The Habs have only 1 top 20 pick in the last 4 drafts, so one shouldn't expect to be able to get top talent in the league when it's a sellers market. They don't have a very good farm system, imo it's due to the lack of picks and where they are picking.





Urquhart was on Savard, he was the one that raved about the pick on draft day about how good of a playoffs he had for the Rocket. But every scout is going to have lots of bad picks, it's the nature of the beast. Fischer at the time was a 6'5 smooth skating PMD, Leblanc was the USHL rookie of the Year, Tinordi who would have thought 6'6 blueliners would be out of fashion just a few years later. McCarron who's to say what he turns into. The Crisp pick I still don't get.

All drafted players are the cream of the crop of JR's or where they play. Every player who is drafted outside of a few will look good in their league. Its up to the scout to sift out the pretenders, the guys who are only succeeding because of the weaker competition. Once a player moves up a level you get rid of 90% of the other players they play against who don't make it and aren't serious about it. Fischer looked great but TT was fooled by him, same with Tinordi and Leblanc.

 

[scrubadam]

Why is Bergevin exempt from the draft criticism if he promoted Timmins ?

So criticize MB. He can be part of the problem for all I care. Doesn't excuse TT and the fact that he is the one who was in charge of the draft. So yes its MB's fault for keeping TT there and not getting fresh eyes. But those eyes belong to TT.

Since we are in the TT thread its mainly about TT. We can bash MB in his thread for the bad job he is doing with his drafting department.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

TT needs to hit on a first round forward. Through his tenure he's drafted 3 top 6 forwards in the first round? AK, Chuck and Patches are the only ones that come to mind. We need more than that.

When you look at the Habs and the lack of forward depth, I do blame it on the lack of success drafting in the first and second round. After the 07 draft I think most of us were convinced TT was a great scout but since then he hasn't blown us away with his work.

Still waiting on how Sherbak, McCarron and Hudon turn out but I hope the Habs really zero in on a forward and use our extra 2nd round picks to move up and grab one this draft. It's important that they infuse better talent into the top 6. TT seriously needs to step it up now because our prospect forward depth is embarrassing IMO and really hampering the team.

 

[jfm133]

Don't look but for EVERY JOB THAT EXIST OUT THERE, that's what the bosses do to their employees....look back and tell them what they should have done differently. Somehow, that head scouting job, not only should you be praise for the great picks you made (and nowhere will your good moves be attributed to development), but you also will be excused for your bad picks (surely happened because of bad development), but now you also CANNOT be judged on your work by looking at what you did. Awesome job I tell you.

No scout hits for 1.000, not even close. It is part of the job to miss on most picks, even on first rounders. Stats are there, it is not dsiputable. Given that, a scout should be praised for every good picks, and not bashed for every bad one because we know bad ones will be there no matter what, but we are not sure of the good ones will be there. Again, it is all about average over the long run, not on a window chosen to try to make a scout look bad. Quality and quantity of picks are also important to consider. Taking all that into account, Timmins is one of the best.

Bashing a scout for bad picks would like bashing a very good hitter in baseball because a 0.350 hitter will miss 6.5 times out of 10 at bat. Missing at least 6 times out of 10 is part of the job for a hitter in baseball. In scouting it is even more complicated because all the scouts are not working with the same quality of picks.

With high quality picks (top-12), Timmins is 4 out of 5. He was wrong with Kostitsyn, but right on Price, McDonagh, Galchenyuk and Sergachev. Add to that the fact that Kostitsyn was not a total failure, not a pure bust.

 

[montreal]

I agree we don't know. If we go by HF (which doesn't say alot) Habs prospects are not highly valued. Again doesn't tell us what a GM thinks. OTOH a guy like Ghetto went on waivers twice and was traded for Martinsens. We can say Ghetto didn't have much value. Mac OTOH was rumoured to go for Hanzel so maybe he does have some value.



I don't watch AHL so I cant comment. And I wont say Sly is a great coach I am sure he does baffeling things, all coaches do. TM in EDM might play DD on the 1st PP wave even though it was a failure here with MT. But looking at player stats some of our prospects have put together good seasons. So for every Leblanc there is a Ghetto or Hudon who tear up the AHL. Is that because of Sly or talent? Both or neither but Leblanc is getting the same Sly as Ghetto/Hudon/Carr and one couldn't do well in the AHL and the others have.



All drafted players are the cream of the crop of JR's or where they play. Every player who is drafted outside of a few will look good in their league. Its up to the scout to sift out the pretenders, the guys who are only succeeding because of the weaker competition. Once a player moves up a level you get rid of 90% of the other players they play against who don't make it and aren't serious about it. Fischer looked great but TT was fooled by him, same with Tinordi and Leblanc.

still the Avs opted to trade for Ghetto, just as the list of traded picks of Timmins, it shows teams are interested in his players regardless of what HF thinks or rumors on TV. It's not about the return but the fact that teams have interest in Timmins picks. As for waivers, I wouldn't read too much into that as a few undersized players have passed through waivers and gone on to do well. Not saying that Ghetto will or not as he's got the speed and a shot but the rest of his game needs work.

Leblanc did do well in the AHL, just not under Lefebvre. He was one of their top players as a 20 year old rookie. Then his game went to hell under Lefebvre.

There's a reason why the success rate out of players drafted past the top 10/20 isn't that good. All scouts are going to miss on kids that look good but just never progress once they move up as they peak at the 18/19/20 age. Fischer had the tools and physical attributes that you can at least see why a scout would pick him. In hindsight it was a terrible pick and one of his worst. Tinordi I wouldn't say he was fooled, since it had more to do with the league changing. Leblanc had the resume going into the draft, I wasn't for the pick as I didn't like his skating but hard to fault him when he had done so well before the draft.

 

[Whitesnake]

No scout hits for 1.000, not even close. It is part of the job to miss on most picks, even on first rounders. Stats are there, it is not dsiputable. Given that, a scout should be praised for every good picks, and not bashed for every bad one because we know bad ones will be there no matter what, but we are not sure of the good ones will be there. Again, it is all about average over the long run, not on a window chosen to try to make a scout look bad. Quality and quantity of picks are also important to consider. Taking all that into account, Timmins is one of the best.

Bashing a scout for bad picks would like bashing a very good hitter in baseball because a 0.350 hitter will miss 6.5 times out of 10 at bat. Missing at least 6 times out of 10 is part of the job for a hitter in baseball. In scouting it is even more complicated because all the scouts are not working with the same quality of picks.

With high quality picks (top-12), Timmins is 4 out of 5. He was wrong with Kostitsyn, but right on Price, McDonagh, Galchenyuk and Sergachev. Add to that the fact that Kostitsyn was not a total failure, not a pure bust.

Not sure who said that the guy needs to be 1.000. I mean, the 2007 draft that ALL OF US keep raving about still shows that he didn't hit every single pick he made, so moot point. Not sure when we disregard what he has done before 2007. Not sure why when people bring what he has done after, we are told what he has done before. That would be like saying that Scott Gomez is a great NHL'er right now 'cause he had numerous 60 point and more seasons in the past. People aren't saying that HIS ENTIRE CAREER IS FAIL. People might just be evaluating that recently, he has struggled. I have no idea why we can't do that. That's like the whiners with their "where are the haters" now stupid posts whenever a guy who DOES struggle finally scores a goal. It's not because he scored that he did not struggle before. Well for Timmins, it's not because he had a great 2007 draft that he STILL has great drafts.

 

[Belial]

Do we have any prospect playing center that has top 6 potential?

 

[scrubadam]

Do we have any prospect playing center that has top 6 potential?

All of them, even the goalies and defensemen. But if they fail its not TT's fault. Its Sly's and MT's and MB's and the Zamboni drivers.

still the Avs opted to trade for Ghetto, just as the list of traded picks of Timmins, it shows teams are interested in his players regardless of what HF thinks or rumors on TV. It's not about the return but the fact that teams have interest in Timmins picks. As for waivers, I wouldn't read too much into that as a few undersized players have passed through waivers and gone on to do well. Not saying that Ghetto will or not as he's got the speed and a shot but the rest of his game needs work.

Leblanc did do well in the AHL, just not under Lefebvre. He was one of their top players as a 20 year old rookie. Then his game went to hell under Lefebvre.

There's a reason why the success rate out of players drafted past the top 10/20 isn't that good. All scouts are going to miss on kids that look good but just never progress once they move up as they peak at the 18/19/20 age. Fischer had the tools and physical attributes that you can at least see why a scout would pick him. In hindsight it was a terrible pick and one of his worst. Tinordi I wouldn't say he was fooled, since it had more to do with the league changing. Leblanc had the resume going into the draft, I wasn't for the pick as I didn't like his skating but hard to fault him when he had done so well before the draft.

You say its hard to fault him but even you weren't high on him. But I do think Leblanc was a bit of a political pick with the draft in MTL and all. But still TT should stand up if thats the case and show some backbone. My real issue with Tinordi/Leblanc is the players TT passed over that were selected almost right after. Same with Dieder/Dietz picks. I just don't like all the misses he has racked up since 07.

If the fanbase wants to excuse it and blame everyone else or hang onto his 07 draft then so be it. Personally I am less than impressed (and I know my opinion doesn't mean anything to the habs) and I feel his crappy drafts have been one of the leading reasons the habs lack depth up and down the line up. We can pile on MB for not making trades or signing UFA's but when you don't draft well everything else is more difficult. You have no pieces to trade, you have to hold onto the limited prospects you do have, and you are already blowing money on UFA's that you can't patch every hole or else you will blow the cap.

I have said it many times but if Timmins was a bit more on the ball we could be looking at Krieder/Kuznetzov/Klefboom/Gaudreau/Shaw (without trading 2 2nds) on this team. Thats a whole lote better than Tinordi/Leblanc/Beau/Dietz/Dieder consdiring only 1 is actually on the team. NO scout can be perfect but to strike out on those 5?

Price/AG vs Kopitar/Forsberg. Interesting question which duo would you prefer to have on the habs right now? I have a hard time choseing and as great as Price is I think I would prefer the 2nd duo. Speaking of which outside of Halak/Price as TT drafted any good goalies?

No scout hits for 1.000, not even close. It is part of the job to miss on most picks, even on first rounders. Stats are there, it is not dsiputable. Given that, a scout should be praised for every good picks, and not bashed for every bad one because we know bad ones will be there no matter what, but we are not sure of the good ones will be there. Again, it is all about average over the long run, not on a window chosen to try to make a scout look bad. Quality and quantity of picks are also important to consider. Taking all that into account, Timmins is one of the best.

Bashing a scout for bad picks would like bashing a very good hitter in baseball because a 0.350 hitter will miss 6.5 times out of 10 at bat. Missing at least 6 times out of 10 is part of the job for a hitter in baseball. In scouting it is even more complicated because all the scouts are not working with the same quality of picks.

With high quality picks (top-12), Timmins is 4 out of 5. He was wrong with Kostitsyn, but right on Price, McDonagh, Galchenyuk and Sergachev. Add to that the fact that Kostitsyn was not a total failure, not a pure bust.

And whats his record with late first round picks? Because odds are habs will be drafting in the late rounds. We only have had 3 top 10 picks since TT came on board.

By my count not counting the 13/14/15/16 draft he has gone 1/5 if you are generous and count Beau. I could even say 1/6 because Mac is looking like a 4th liner at best. You counted Serg and I think thats being generous we don't know what his NHL future holds. Guy Latendress looked like sure fire superstar too at one point.

 

[scrubadam]

I am looking through old drafts, I guess "cherry picking" and its comical for a team that has been looking for a C how many times we directly passed over one.

Zajac/Giroux/Kopitar(but lucky not to take Brule)/M. Johansson/Kuznetzov.

All of those guys would be upgrades on what we have down the middle outside of maybe AG. And I might say Forsberg over AG, but he also dropped to 11 so he was a reach at 3.

Still across the organization they have missed out on getting help up the middle for 14 years now. And I am just looking the 1st round. This would cover 3 GM's and 2 Owners if I am not mistaken.

 

[mariolemieux66]

I am looking through old drafts, I guess "cherry picking" and its comical for a team that has been looking for a C how many times we directly passed over one.

Zajac/Giroux/Kopitar(but lucky not to take Brule)/M. Johansson/Kuznetzov.

All of those guys would be upgrades on what we have down the middle outside of maybe AG. And I might say Forsberg over AG, but he also dropped to 11 so he was a reach at 3.

Still across the organization they have missed out on getting help up the middle for 14 years now. And I am just looking the 1st round. This would cover 3 GM's and 2 Owners if I am not mistaken.

Seems like the organization would rather be very good defensively than well balanced.

 

[scrubadam]

Seems like the organization would rather be very defensively than well balanced.

Watch out for the Serge pick. 3 C's taken right after him and 4th taken with the 15th OVA pick.

Could very well be kicking ourselves for missing out on that 1C once again.

 

[OnceWasNot]

Do we have any prospect playing center that has top 6 potential?

I'm not sure they have any forward prospects with top 6 potential. But what can you expect? You only have a good chance of getting a player of such caliber if you draft high, which this organization has done twice in the last decade because they're content to simply make the playoffs, win a round or two and draft a future 3rd line player in the bottom half of the draft. No vision.

 

[1909]

Seems like the organization would rather be very good defensively than well balanced.

It will suit CJ very well.

 

[Belial]

All of them, even the goalies and defensemen. But if they fail its not TT's fault. Its Sly's and MT's and MB's and the Zamboni drivers.

Touche!

I'm not sure they have any forward prospects with top 6 potential. But what can you expect? You only have a good chance of getting a player of such caliber if you draft high, which this organization has done twice in the last decade because they're content to simply make the playoffs, win a round or two and draft a future 3rd line player in the bottom half of the draft. No vision.

Lool , no vision... So what's your plan? Suck for years and hope we get lucky and draft the next McDavid?