Trevor Timmins Part II

[Habs100]

Timmins has been riding this 2007 draft year with Mcdonagh/Pacioretty/Subban...since then ....

2008
Danny Kristo R Bust
Steve Quailer R Bust
Jason Missiaen G Bust
Maxim Trunev F Bust
Patrick Johnson Bust

2009
Louis Leblanc R Bust
Joonas Nattinen C Bust
Mac Bennett D Bust
Alexander Avtsin Bust
Gabriel Dumont C Bust
Dustin Walsh C Bust
Mike Cichy C Bust
Petteri Simila Bust

2010
Jarred Tinordi Bust
Mark MacMillan Bust
Morgan Ellis Bust
Brendan Gallagher NHL player top 9 forward
John Westin Bust

2011
Nathan Beaulieu NHL player 4-6th defenseman
Josiah Didier Bust
Olivier Archambault Bust
Magnus Nygren Bust
Darren Dietz Bust
Daniel Pribyl Bust
Colin Sullivan Bust


2012
Alex Galchenyuk NHL player top 6 forward
Sebastian Collberg Bust
Dalton Thrower Bust
Tim Bozon Bust
Brady Vail Bust
Charles Hudon AHL forward/Bust
Erik Nystrom Bust

2013
Michael McCarron AHL forward/NHL bottom 6?
Jacob De La Rose AHL forward/Bust
Zachary Fucale Bust
Artturi Lehkonen NHL top 9 forward
Connor Crisp Bust
Sven Andrighetto AHL forward?
Martin Reway Euro bound/AHL?
Jeremy Gregoire Bust

2014
Nikita Scherbak Too early to tell
Brett Lernout AHL/Bust
Nikolas Koberstein AHL?
Daniel Audette AHL?
Hayden Hawkey Bust?
Jake Evans Bust

2015 Too early to know
2016 Too early to know

4 NHL regulars since 2008 to 2013...(Galchenyuk no brainer pick at #3, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Lehkonen).....wow wonder why this guy still has a job after 10 years.


4 players in the last 10 years!!!!

You say 4 players in the last 10 years, but you leave out the whole 2016 and 2015 classes which include Sergachev, Bitten, Mete, and Juulsen. Plus you leave out Ghetto, Hudon, McCarron, and Scerbak who have seen time in the NHL this year and could very realistically be NHL players. That's 8 more players with realistic NHL opportunities.

Plus you leave out pre-2007 draft where he drafted Price, Halak, Streit, Emelin and other former NHLers Chipchura, Lapierre, O'byrne, and the Kostitsyn brothers.

 

[John B]

This organization was well on its way to becoming accountable and professional and then BargainBin came in and hired his buddies to an over-stuffed hockey ops department and now we see the rot creeping in.

Timmins has to be accountable for the bad drafts but our development program is utterly insane - crushes any sort of creativity out of players. Doesn't foster talent at all.

You got me there. After re-reading my post I did imply that he shouldn't be accountable. He is in charge of the scouting department and obviously he is accountable for success or failure. Now that I have clarified that I'd like to add that I'm not sure that replacing Timmins is going to get much better results if the rest of the scouting staff and current development department/system stays in place. That's the point I'm trying to make. This team needs to make upgrades in both departments and most importantly they need to be more patient with their prospects.

 

[ginomini]

Something you guys seem to forget about the recent drafts, is that we got quite unlucky with Reway and Bozon. These do guys were/are pretty good prospects at one point, but got screwed up by illness.

Who knows where they would be right know without these issues. I think they would both be in the AHL and with add quality depth to the system.

Especially Reway who is highly talented and really creative, something we lack in the pipeline. I think with a full AHL season this year he could have been in the top rookies in the A. He could have a similar impact as Arvidsson in Nashville. Hopefully he will be back without having lost to much of his aptitudes.

 

[Whitesnake]

Drafting and development go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. If your scouting and drafting are great, but your development system sucks your not going to get great results. The same goes for crappy scouting and drafting with a great development system. The first thing I was hoping Bergevin would do when he took over as GM was improve both the scouting and development departments. I don't hate Timmins and I don't mind keeping him as head scout, but I'd like to surround him with better scouts. We often blame one person (the head of the department in this case) for failures. It's almost like we forget that there is an entire staff that evaluates talent. I'm sure Timmins doesn't get to watch every single draft eligible prospect at length. He likely relies on his scouting staff and their opinions just like head scouts in any other organization. Case in point, Arvid Henriksson. From what I've heard, it was Montreal's Swedish scout that wanted Bergevin to draft him. I doubt Timmins (or Bergevin) even knew who this kid was. It just goes to show that Timmins isn't the only one with input on draft day.

That's because on a FAN STANDPOINT, we blame the person who is most likely responsible. But don't worry, we understand that each have a role to play. Yet, if we employ a scout who is a total fail, somebody isn't doing their job, whether it's Timmins for not asking Bergevin to fire him or Bergevin himself. In the end, most if not ALL of the players chosen will have been seen by Timmins. Of course, in Henriksson case, we know that it's Rockstrom who was jumping all over the table to make Timmins pick him.....and so he did. Did Timmins see the guy at least once to have an opinion? My guess is that he did....but I don't know. But again, I suspect that once our scouts throughout the globe start to have a hard-on on a guy, that Timmins automatically goes and see him to have his own personal idea. Hence, he is responsible for who is drafted. But he is also responsible as he is the one who listens to the ones who make recommendation. I would suspect that our Q scouts have not a whole lot of strenght in that group. And why would they....we aren't talking about Chainey, Nolet or any top gun Q scout here.....Audette and Boisvert were probably appointed at first to shut up people who were whining about not having regular Q scouts in the organization. But when Rockstrom talks, and I guess it's well deserved, well Timmins listen. WE will see in the long run what those Vejdemo and Henriksson picks will end up being. And while you are right, development is also key.....it is way more tougher to analyse. The only way we can is if a guy looks bad with us, goes somewhere else and look like the real deal. Hasn't happened with Tinordi and Co yet....does that mean that he wasn't anything good to begin with or did we successfully destroyed the kid's development so that nobody else could have done something with him? Tough to know. One thing is sure....if development is a problem....well our GM STILL KEEP the same people around the team. So if you find the development to be a problem, fire the GM.

 

[le_sean]

You say 4 players in the last 10 years, but you leave out the whole 2016 and 2015 classes which include Sergachev, Bitten, Mete, and Juulsen. Plus you leave out Ghetto, Hudon, McCarron, and Scerbak who have seen time in the NHL this year and could very realistically be NHL players. That's 8 more players with realistic NHL opportunities.

Plus you leave out pre-2007 draft where he drafted Price, Halak, Streit, Emelin and other former NHLers Chipchura, Lapierre, O'byrne, and the Kostitsyn brothers.

No we don't leave out pre 2007 players. That's the problem we have, his main success was 10 years ago. It's time for a fresh face.

How can you bring up Bitten and Mete? There's zero indication that they will be anything. Hudon and Scherbak are not NHLers just because they played a few games. Andrighetto is fringe. McCarron is a 3rd liner at best.

I'm sorry but if I'm an employer and you come to me saying you did some really good stuff pre-2008, I say "great, who cares?"

The successes before 2008 are about to leave and the Habs have nothing to show for it because they couldn't draft much of anything since then to help those players out.

 

[Habs100]

No we don't leave out pre 2007 players. That's the problem we have, his main success was 10 years ago. It's time for a fresh face.

How can you bring up Bitten and Mete? There's zero indication that they will be anything. Hudon and Scherbak are not NHLers just because they played a few games. Andrighetto is fringe. McCarron is a 3rd liner at best.

I'm sorry but if I'm an employer and you come to me saying you did some really good stuff pre-2008, I say "great, who cares?"

The successes before 2008 are about to leave and the Habs have nothing to show for it because they couldn't draft much of anything since then to help those players out.

Ok, putting aside the absolute genius moves that were drafting Price, Subban, McDonagh, and Pacioretty where he did--which constitutes drafting an elite core, in case you didn't notice, since then:

Drafts we can judge:

2012 was a success. You want a first line player with the number 3 pick. Timmins drafted Galchennyuk even though he had just missed a whole year. Plus we got Hudon in the 5th. I'll take Galchenyuk and 2 busts with the first 3 picks we had in that draft over 3 mediocre NHLers, none of whom are top line players or first pairing dmen. Name one team in that draft that did better.

2011 was a success. With OUR ONLY FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS we got Beaulieu. Plus we got Nygren in the 4th. He still may play in the NHL one day.

2010 was a success. Again, With OUR ONLY FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS, and that pick being 22 overall, we drafted Tinordi, whose game didn't translate well into the changing NHL. But we got Gallagher, who is one of the best players in that draft. For having only one pick in the first 3 rounds and it being 22nd coming away from that draft with Gallagher is excellent.

2009 and 2008 were not good. But again, we had no 1st round pick in one of them and no 2nd in the other. Two bad years don't make a scout.


Drafts we can't yet judge yet: 2013-2016. But...

2013 - McCarron is a fine pick with the 25th overall pick. Plus we got Lehknonen, Reway, and Ghetto who still could become top 9 or even top 6 forwards. Way too early to say for sure.

2014 - Scherbak is a pick at 26th. Again no 2nd round pick. Lernout and Audette are long shots, but could pan out

2015 - Juulsen at 26 is a good pick. Again no 2nd rounder.

2016 - Sergachev pick is looking like another genius move. Time will tell. The future will tell about Bitten and Mete.

 

[Whitesnake]

Ok, putting aside the absolute genius moves that were drafting Price, Subban, McDonagh, and Pacioretty where he did--which constitutes drafting an elite core, in case you didn't notice, since then:

Drafts we can judge:

2012 was a success. You want a first line player with the number 3 pick. Timmins drafted Galchennyuk even though he had just missed a whole year. Plus we got Hudon in the 5th. I'll take Galchenyuk and 2 busts with the first 3 picks we had in that draft over 3 mediocre NHLers, none of whom are top line players or first pairing dmen. Name one team in that draft that did better.

2011 was a success. With OUR ONLY FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS we got Beaulieu. Plus we got Nygren in the 4th. He still may play in the NHL one day.

2010 was a success. Again, With OUR ONLY FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS, and that pick being 22 overall, we drafted Tinordi, whose game didn't translate well into the changing NHL. But we got Gallagher, who is one of the best players in that draft. For having only one pick in the first 3 rounds and it being 22nd coming away from that draft with Gallagher is excellent.

2009 and 2008 were not good. But again, we had no 1st round pick in one of them and no 2nd in the other. Two bad years don't make a scout.


Drafts we can't yet judge yet: 2013-2016. But...

2013 - McCarron is a fine pick with the 25th overall pick. Plus we got Lehknonen, Reway, and Ghetto who still could become top 9 or even top 6 forwards. Way too early to say for sure.

2014 - Scherbak is a pick at 26th. Again no 2nd round pick. Lernout and Audette are long shots, but could pan out

2015 - Juulsen at 26 is a good pick. Again no 2nd rounder.

2016 - Sergachev pick is looking like another genius move. Time will tell. The future will tell about Bitten and Mete.

Success? So what you are saying is that if we have a high 1st round pick, we can actually trade EVERY SINGLE ONE of our other picks cause if you pick a good player, since that pick will most likely be great, who needs the others? How can you on one hand give us your capital letters of ONLY ONE FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS and then don't mention the 4 picks in the top 65 in 2012? How about differentiating a great pick from a great draft? You are so out to lunch on this one.....that report of yours is just as not good as the ones who only see bad things. Calling those draft a success is ludicrous. THE pick is a great pick. THE draft, you need to go deeper than just look at the #3. Having only ONE PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS does not mean that you should miss the 1st rounder you have you know. You make it sound like it's fine to have pick Tinordi just because we had only 1 pick in the first 3 rounds....And it's cute how you make it sound as if Hudon, Ghetto, even freakin NYgren is mentioned...., so you mention them positively but then...it's too soon to tell. Who cares right if they pan out? 'Cause you'll surely come back with WHO CARES IF THEY PAN OUT, WE GOT MCCARRON!!!!!

You cannot whine about having only 1 pick in the first 3 rounds....and then do not mention when we get multiple picks in the same first 3 rounds and come short with most of them.

 

[Chili]

This organization was well on its way to becoming accountable and professional and then BargainBin came in and hired his buddies to an over-stuffed hockey ops department and now we see the rot creeping in.

Timmins has to be accountable for the bad drafts but our development program is utterly insane - crushes any sort of creativity out of players. Doesn't foster talent at all.

Hard to polish wooden nickels.

By the way, from what I found, as of last season, the Gainey/Gauthier amateur scouts were still employed with the exception of Ryan Jankowski (who I believe left for a promotion years ago).

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Hard to polish wooden nickels.

By the way, from what I found, as of last season, the Gainey/Gauthier amateur scouts were still employed with the exception of Ryan Jankowski (who I believe left for a promotion years ago).

I don't think our drafting is as bad as our development. Hard to polish anything with sandpaper.

I'm still open to clearing house of every one in every hockey ops department - it's a results business and no one has been getting the right kind of results. But Timmins would be the last on the chopping block.

Something is definitely wrong though. I want people with more insight into the amateur side of things to shed their thoughts.

 

[Chili]

I don't think our drafting is as bad as our development. Hard to polish anything with sandpaper.

I'm still open to clearing house of every one in every hockey ops department - it's a results business and no one has been getting the right kind of results. But Timmins would be the last on the chopping block.

Something is definitely wrong though. I want people with more insight into the amateur side of things to shed their thoughts.

They still have at least a couple of years after they are drafted to develop...before they are in the AHL or ECHL.

A top prospect is usually evident before they turn pro.

Who are recent prospects like that who busted?

Seems like it would be a short list because few have taken a significant step forward after being drafted (and before turning pro).

 

[Habs100]

Success? So what you are saying is that if we have a high 1st round pick, we can actually trade EVERY SINGLE ONE of our other picks cause if you pick a good player, since that pick will most likely be great, who needs the others? How can you on one hand give us your capital letters of ONLY ONE FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS and then don't mention the 4 picks in the top 65 in 2012? How about differentiating a great pick from a great draft? You are so out to lunch on this one.....that report of yours is just as not good as the ones who only see bad things. Calling those draft a success is ludicrous. THE pick is a great pick. THE draft, you need to go deeper than just look at the #3. Having only ONE PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS does not mean that you should miss the 1st rounder you have you know. You make it sound like it's fine to have pick Tinordi just because we had only 1 pick in the first 3 rounds....And it's cute how you make it sound as if Hudon, Ghetto, even freakin NYgren is mentioned...., so you mention them positively but then...it's too soon to tell. Who cares right if they pan out? 'Cause you'll surely come back with WHO CARES IF THEY PAN OUT, WE GOT MCCARRON!!!!!

You cannot whine about having only 1 pick in the first 3 rounds....and then do not mention when we get multiple picks in the same first 3 rounds and come short with most of them.

When you only have one pick in the first 3 rounds and it's a late first rounder and you come out with a quality first round pick that draft is a success. It's not that hard to understand. Getting Beaulieu and Gallagher from those drafts, given the picks we had, makes them successful drafts.


And as for the 2012 Galchenyuk draft. You act like it's a sure thing to get a great player at number 3. Look at the draft. Edmonton, Columbus, and the Islanders failed with the number 1,2, and 4 picks (Yakupov, Murray, and Reinhart). Timmins nailed it with the number 3 pick, just like he did when he drafted number 5. You want your top scout to nail it when he gets a top 5 pick. Timmins has nailed it both times. Many scouts would fail.

To answer your question:
"So what you are saying is that if we have a high 1st round pick, we can actually trade EVERY SINGLE ONE of our other picks cause if you pick a good player, since that pick will most likely be great, who needs the others?"

I would absolutely trade every single one of my other picks for in that draft for Galchenyuk, instead of having Yakupov, Ryan Murray, or Reinhart and all those other draft picks.

And no, I'm clearly not saying a high pick is most likely a great pick. I'm just happy when Timmins gets a good pick, he's been money (yes Price, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and McDonagh clearly make up for the Andreii Kostitsyn pick). Anybody who wouldn't be happy with Galchenyuk, Price, Sergachev, McDonagh, and Kostitsyn as a package is an idiot. All scouts have bad picks. It goes with the territory.

 

[Whitesnake]

When you only have one pick in the first 3 rounds and it's a late first rounder and you come out with a quality first round pick that draft is a success. It's not that hard to understand. Getting Beaulieu and Gallagher from those drafts, given the picks we had, makes them successful drafts.

Well yeah, it's hard to understand 'cause it makes no sense. Having a successful draft has to be different from having a successful pick. A draft is composed of numerous draft picks and you need to have more than 1 guy making it to be seen as a great DRAFT. If not, you didn't have a great draft...you had a great pick. THAT is not hard to understand. When the scouting group finishes their 2-day draft, they are ALL mostly satisfied and probably thinks that they have a few guys out there that will have a great chance at making it. When some won't make it, they will be dissapointed.

And as for the 2012 Galchenyuk draft. You act like it's a sure thing to get a great player at number 3. Look at the draft. Edmonton, Columbus, and the Islanders failed with the number 1,2, and 4 picks (Yakupov, Murray, and Reinhart). Timmins nailed it with the number 3 pick, just like he did when he drafted number 5. You want your top scout to nail it when he gets a top 5 pick. Timmins has nailed it both times. Many scouts would fail.

Yeah, history shows that you will most like get a top player with the top 5. All fine that you nitpick one draft, look at the past. NOBODY gives credit to the Hawks for Kane and Toews. And yet, we do it for Galchenyuk? Why?

To answer your question:
"So what you are saying is that if we have a high 1st round pick, we can actually trade EVERY SINGLE ONE of our other picks cause if you pick a good player, since that pick will most likely be great, who needs the others?"I would absolutely trade every single one of my other picks for in that draft for Galchenyuk, instead of having Yakupov, Ryan Murray, or Reinhart and all those other draft picks.

Makes no sense. If you think the world out of Timmins and you drool over his work, how about thinking that he might actually pull other miracles out of his other picks and that he was never going to pick Yakupov and others as he's so great? And that statement makes no sense.....if in 2012, he still picks Galchy, but uses his other picks to pick McCabe, Tierney, Gostisbehere, Severson, Parayko, Slavin etc....you don't need any of those guys? Because we picked Galchenyuk? Awesome. So I guess we should have traded all of our picks in 2007 after McDonagh....I mean...you would have been fine with that, McDonagh is a key player and who needed guys like Pacioretty and Subban anyway.....

And no, I'm clearly not saying a high pick is most likely a great pick. I'm just happy when Timmins gets a good pick, he's been money (yes Price, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and McDonagh clearly make up for the Andreii Kostitsyn pick). Anybody who wouldn't be happy with Galchenyuk, Price, Sergachev, McDonagh, and Kostitsyn as a package is an idiot. All scouts have bad picks. It goes with the territory.

How about you don't put Sergachev with Price please? Yeah, we all expect him to be gold, but he's not there yet, You are naming me guys over a 13 year period. EVERYBODY was happy back then with the Price and the 2007 picks. But most people just think that since 2008 it's been average to say the least. That also is not that hard to understand.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

At this point the drafting is really hurting us. Not only have we had minimal drafted players step up and contribute for us recently, we've really had nothing we could use in trades to at least try and land anyone.

We had 5 second rounders in the first two drafts under Bergevin. Lehkonen has done well, Collberg sucked but at least helped us get Vanek, then guys like DLR/Fucale/Thrower have hurt us as they neither have helped contribute to our team nor have been good enough to be used in a trade to help our team.

Luckily our pro scouting has done a decent job filling out the roster getting guys like Danault, Mitchell and Byron the last couple years for next to nothing.

 

[SOLR]

I don't think our drafting is as bad as our development. Hard to polish anything with sandpaper.

I'm still open to clearing house of every one in every hockey ops department - it's a results business and no one has been getting the right kind of results. But Timmins would be the last on the chopping block.

Something is definitely wrong though. I want people with more insight into the amateur side of things to shed their thoughts.

The AHL level is for sure a problem, you don't need much info to figure this one out. The mountain of evidence starts here: the players that we really need to take from junior to NHL level don't play enough. Case in point: Nikita Scherbak, should play 25 mins every night, until he wants to cry. It's not just Scherbak, they screwed with Leblanc, Hudon, momentums in the same way. This organisation consistently confuses the need for accountability with the mission of success. Instead, It looks like the mission itself is accountability (do I really need to explain why this is wrong?).

At the scouting level, Timmins has to be better, but we also need to have more guts at the GM level to make the trades that returns good picks when we have to. For example. we are about to lose 100% of the assets value for Plekanec, Emelin, because of how Bergevin managed these situations. Instead of having legitimate holes in the lineup that would results in better picks by themselves, we have a constant "virtual" sensation of being "contending" because the core of the team is ok, but the support group is consistently dreadful. It's consistently dreadful, because we don't recycle assets very well (if at all). We also keep players around that should never touch the ice again(DD).

In a cap-era: the ****ing Redwings model is dead. Even them are saying it.
In a cap-era: rebuild for 2 years every 10 years. Create a wave with 2 consecutive top 5 picks (3 in case you have some bad luck)
In a cap-era: support your wave the best you can by concentrating the wave. Elements of the older waves (if you still have them) should NOT be kept over their expiration dates (unless they are exceptional: Markov).

Effectively, the Maples Leafs might pass us and the Bruins next year because they had the guts to do what is right.

 

[Habs100]

At this point the drafting is really hurting us. Not only have we had minimal drafted players step up and contribute for us recently, we've really had nothing we could use in trades to at least try and land anyone.

We had 5 second rounders in the first two drafts under Bergevin. Lehkonen has done well, Collberg sucked but at least helped us get Vanek, then guys like DLR/Fucale/Thrower have hurt us as they neither have helped contribute to our team nor have been good enough to be used in a trade to help our team.

Luckily our pro scouting has done a decent job filling out the roster getting guys like Danault, Mitchell and Byron the last couple years for next to nothing.

There are no great players that have emerged yet from the second round on in those 2 drafts. Coming away with Galchenyuk and Lehkonen from those drafts is good enough. If some combination of Hudon, McCarron, Ghetto, and Reway pan out that will be even better. If we draft one and only one top six forward or top 4 dman every year, we'll be set for a long time.

 

[realtalk11]

You say 4 players in the last 10 years, but you leave out the whole 2016 and 2015 classes which include Sergachev, Bitten, Mete, and Juulsen. Plus you leave out Ghetto, Hudon, McCarron, and Scerbak who have seen time in the NHL this year and could very realistically be NHL players. That's 8 more players with realistic NHL opportunities.

Plus you leave out pre-2007 draft where he drafted Price, Halak, Streit, Emelin and other former NHLers Chipchura, Lapierre, O'byrne, and the Kostitsyn brothers.

wooohoooo

lol bad

 

[Habs100]

wooohoooo

lol bad

Yeah I would hate to come away after 4 drafts with Price, Halak, Streit, and Emelin.

Two number one goalies (including the best in the world), a top pairing dman and a solid stay at home dman. What could be worse??? lol

 

[Hannibal]

Timmins has been riding this 2007 draft year with Mcdonagh/Pacioretty/Subban...since then ....

2008
Danny Kristo R Bust
Steve Quailer R Bust
Jason Missiaen G Bust
Maxim Trunev F Bust
Patrick Johnson Bust

2009
Louis Leblanc R Bust
Joonas Nattinen C Bust
Mac Bennett D Bust
Alexander Avtsin Bust
Gabriel Dumont C Bust
Dustin Walsh C Bust
Mike Cichy C Bust
Petteri Simila Bust

2010
Jarred Tinordi Bust
Mark MacMillan Bust
Morgan Ellis Bust
Brendan Gallagher NHL player top 9 forward
John Westin Bust

2011
Nathan Beaulieu NHL player 4-6th defenseman
Josiah Didier Bust
Olivier Archambault Bust
Magnus Nygren Bust
Darren Dietz Bust
Daniel Pribyl Bust
Colin Sullivan Bust


2012
Alex Galchenyuk NHL player top 6 forward
Sebastian Collberg Bust
Dalton Thrower Bust
Tim Bozon Bust
Brady Vail Bust
Charles Hudon AHL forward/Bust
Erik Nystrom Bust

2013
Michael McCarron AHL forward/NHL bottom 6?
Jacob De La Rose AHL forward/Bust
Zachary Fucale Bust
Artturi Lehkonen NHL top 9 forward
Connor Crisp Bust
Sven Andrighetto AHL forward?
Martin Reway Euro bound/AHL?
Jeremy Gregoire Bust

2014
Nikita Scherbak Too early to tell
Brett Lernout AHL/Bust
Nikolas Koberstein AHL?
Daniel Audette AHL?
Hayden Hawkey Bust?
Jake Evans Bust

2015 Too early to know
2016 Too early to know

4 NHL regulars since 2008 to 2013...(Galchenyuk no brainer pick at #3, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Lehkonen).....wow wonder why this guy still has a job after 10 years.


4 players in the last 10 years!!!!

QFT.

That list is depressing

 

[jaffy27]

Timmins has been riding this 2007 draft year with Mcdonagh/Pacioretty/Subban...since then ....

2008
Danny Kristo R Bust
Steve Quailer R Bust
Jason Missiaen G Bust
Maxim Trunev F Bust
Patrick Johnson Bust

2009
Louis Leblanc R Bust
Joonas Nattinen C Bust
Mac Bennett D Bust
Alexander Avtsin Bust
Gabriel Dumont C Bust
Dustin Walsh C Bust
Mike Cichy C Bust
Petteri Simila Bust

2010
Jarred Tinordi Bust
Mark MacMillan Bust
Morgan Ellis Bust
Brendan Gallagher NHL player top 9 forward
John Westin Bust

2011
Nathan Beaulieu NHL player 4-6th defenseman
Josiah Didier Bust
Olivier Archambault Bust
Magnus Nygren Bust
Darren Dietz Bust
Daniel Pribyl Bust
Colin Sullivan Bust


2012
Alex Galchenyuk NHL player top 6 forward
Sebastian Collberg Bust
Dalton Thrower Bust
Tim Bozon Bust
Brady Vail Bust
Charles Hudon AHL forward/Bust
Erik Nystrom Bust

2013
Michael McCarron AHL forward/NHL bottom 6?
Jacob De La Rose AHL forward/Bust
Zachary Fucale Bust
Artturi Lehkonen NHL top 9 forward
Connor Crisp Bust
Sven Andrighetto AHL forward?
Martin Reway Euro bound/AHL?
Jeremy Gregoire Bust

2014
Nikita Scherbak Too early to tell
Brett Lernout AHL/Bust
Nikolas Koberstein AHL?
Daniel Audette AHL?
Hayden Hawkey Bust?
Jake Evans Bust

2015 Too early to know
2016 Too early to know

4 NHL regulars since 2008 to 2013...(Galchenyuk no brainer pick at #3, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Lehkonen).....wow wonder why this guy still has a job after 10 years.


4 players in the last 10 years!!!!

So 2008 to 2011, 4 drafts, we reaped 2 players (Gallagher and Beaulieu) out of 23, then people wonder why we sucked for so long and when we said Bergevin had nothing to work with, I give you those 4 drafts!

Empty cupboards = No trades

Since Bergevin took over, we have 4 players already playing on the roster today, plus it's a given Sergachev will be a staple, to a lesser extent, Juulsen and Scherbak......seems the direction this management wants to go in (type of players they want to draft) reaps better players.

 

[covfefe]

It's too early to judge 2013, 14, and 15+

There is no question that '08, '09, '10, and '11 was a horrible stretch.

Fact remains, however, that (if the Buck actually stops with him) Timmins is one of the best in the business at sourcing talent throughout the draft. We have, on average, the most games played per pick of any team in the NHL since TT joined us in '03. And I personally think it is a bit reductionist to suggest that the blame all falls on his shoulders: that time frame has seen us have 4 different GM's, all of whom had differing approaches to the game.

I suspect TT would be one of the most sought after player personnel types in the NHL if he were to be on the open market...a reasonably strong sign when it comes to determining the value he adds to the organization.

 

[HuGo Sham]

at some point the sword is going to need to drop on this guy. Very few home runs or consistent NHLers and not enough assets to deal in trades - ALSO his responsibility

 

[Goldenhands]

Timmins has been riding this 2007 draft year with Mcdonagh/Pacioretty/Subban...since then ....

2008
Danny Kristo R Bust
Steve Quailer R Bust
Jason Missiaen G Bust
Maxim Trunev F Bust
Patrick Johnson Bust

2009
Louis Leblanc R Bust
Joonas Nattinen C Bust
Mac Bennett D Bust
Alexander Avtsin Bust
Gabriel Dumont C Bust
Dustin Walsh C Bust
Mike Cichy C Bust
Petteri Simila Bust

2010
Jarred Tinordi Bust
Mark MacMillan Bust
Morgan Ellis Bust
Brendan Gallagher NHL player top 9 forward
John Westin Bust

2011
Nathan Beaulieu NHL player 4-6th defenseman
Josiah Didier Bust
Olivier Archambault Bust
Magnus Nygren Bust
Darren Dietz Bust
Daniel Pribyl Bust
Colin Sullivan Bust


2012
Alex Galchenyuk NHL player top 6 forward
Sebastian Collberg Bust
Dalton Thrower Bust
Tim Bozon Bust
Brady Vail Bust
Charles Hudon AHL forward/Bust
Erik Nystrom Bust

2013
Michael McCarron AHL forward/NHL bottom 6?
Jacob De La Rose AHL forward/Bust
Zachary Fucale Bust
Artturi Lehkonen NHL top 9 forward
Connor Crisp Bust
Sven Andrighetto AHL forward?
Martin Reway Euro bound/AHL?
Jeremy Gregoire Bust

2014
Nikita Scherbak Too early to tell
Brett Lernout AHL/Bust
Nikolas Koberstein AHL?
Daniel Audette AHL?
Hayden Hawkey Bust?
Jake Evans Bust

2015 Too early to know
2016 Too early to know

4 NHL regulars since 2008 to 2013...(Galchenyuk no brainer pick at #3, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Lehkonen).....wow wonder why this guy still has a job after 10 years.


4 players in the last 10 years!!!!

Too early to write Fucale off,

 

[bsl]

When you only have one pick in the first 3 rounds and it's a late first rounder and you come out with a quality first round pick that draft is a success. It's not that hard to understand. Getting Beaulieu and Gallagher from those drafts, given the picks we had, makes them successful drafts.


And as for the 2012 Galchenyuk draft. You act like it's a sure thing to get a great player at number 3. Look at the draft. Edmonton, Columbus, and the Islanders failed with the number 1,2, and 4 picks (Yakupov, Murray, and Reinhart). Timmins nailed it with the number 3 pick, just like he did when he drafted number 5. You want your top scout to nail it when he gets a top 5 pick. Timmins has nailed it both times. Many scouts would fail.

To answer your question:
"So what you are saying is that if we have a high 1st round pick, we can actually trade EVERY SINGLE ONE of our other picks cause if you pick a good player, since that pick will most likely be great, who needs the others?"

I would absolutely trade every single one of my other picks for in that draft for Galchenyuk, instead of having Yakupov, Ryan Murray, or Reinhart and all those other draft picks.

And no, I'm clearly not saying a high pick is most likely a great pick. I'm just happy when Timmins gets a good pick, he's been money (yes Price, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and McDonagh clearly make up for the Andreii Kostitsyn pick). Anybody who wouldn't be happy with Galchenyuk, Price, Sergachev, McDonagh, and Kostitsyn as a package is an idiot. All scouts have bad picks. It goes with the territory.

The way it's going I'd like kopitar over price. But kopitar is having a **** year too.

Ok, putting aside the absolute genius moves that were drafting Price, Subban, McDonagh, and Pacioretty where he did--which constitutes drafting an elite core, in case you didn't notice, since then:

Drafts we can judge:

2012 was a success. You want a first line player with the number 3 pick. Timmins drafted Galchennyuk even though he had just missed a whole year. Plus we got Hudon in the 5th. I'll take Galchenyuk and 2 busts with the first 3 picks we had in that draft over 3 mediocre NHLers, none of whom are top line players or first pairing dmen. Name one team in that draft that did better.

2011 was a success. With OUR ONLY FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS we got Beaulieu. Plus we got Nygren in the 4th. He still may play in the NHL one day.

2010 was a success. Again, With OUR ONLY FRIGGIN PICK IN THE FIRST 3 ROUNDS, and that pick being 22 overall, we drafted Tinordi, whose game didn't translate well into the changing NHL. But we got Gallagher, who is one of the best players in that draft. For having only one pick in the first 3 rounds and it being 22nd coming away from that draft with Gallagher is excellent.

2009 and 2008 were not good. But again, we had no 1st round pick in one of them and no 2nd in the other. Two bad years don't make a scout.


Drafts we can't yet judge yet: 2013-2016. But...

2013 - McCarron is a fine pick with the 25th overall pick. Plus we got Lehknonen, Reway, and Ghetto who still could become top 9 or even top 6 forwards. Way too early to say for sure.

2014 - Scherbak is a pick at 26th. Again no 2nd round pick. Lernout and Audette are long shots, but could pan out

2015 - Juulsen at 26 is a good pick. Again no 2nd rounder.

2016 - Sergachev pick is looking like another genius move. Time will tell. The future will tell about Bitten and Mete.

Actually 2008 and 2009 are killing Habs right now. If Timmins is a genius as they say he would have found something with few picks.

That's his job. Most scouts can do well with ten picks. I want a scout that can find gems with four.

It is context. Habs are always pretty good and often trade picks at deadline. That is the situation. That is his context. Habs need a scout that can find very good players with fewer picks.

Yeah it's difficult. But at 1 mill per year probably figure it out. Try something different. Find a way to find gems.

That's his job.

He's pretty good. But he's not great and let's just admit it. He has not advanced the art of scouting.

 

[WeThreeKings]

the Jared Tinordi draft is the one that kills me.

 

[Whitesnake]

It's too early to judge 2013, 14, and 15+

There is no question that '08, '09, '10, and '11 was a horrible stretch.

Fact remains, however, that (if the Buck actually stops with him) Timmins is one of the best in the business at sourcing talent throughout the draft. We have, on average, the most games played per pick of any team in the NHL since TT joined us in '03. And I personally think it is a bit reductionist to suggest that the blame all falls on his shoulders: that time frame has seen us have 4 different GM's, all of whom had differing approaches to the game.

I suspect TT would be one of the most sought after player personnel types in the NHL if he were to be on the open market...a reasonably strong sign when it comes to determining the value he adds to the organization.

This is a Timmins thread. So we're discussing him. NOBODY says that ALL the blame goes to him. But he has to take some responsability. And I don't believe that "most games played" means a whole lot. At one point, guys that were just fillers ended up not playing a key role and were discarded. And quite a few guys we got through trades are playing just as good as role as guys we ended up picking. Chipchura or Torrey Mitchell? One was picked in the 1st round. The other was received for a 5th rounder.

Again, what you need out of a draft is quality. When Bergevin keeps whining that he can't get top players that easily, what he means, and what he says is that you need to get those players through draft. That's what the draft is for. And yes, in a salary cap era, you also need a few fillers so that you don't necessarily have to spend 3M$ on a filler. But most likely, you are looking for stars. We ended up building this team because of 4 picks in Timmins tenure. Price, Subban, Pacioretty and....McDonagh. I count him for himself and not for the return as Timmins has nothing to do with that unless he said to go ahead with the deal and rumor has it that it's totally the opposite. And lately, the team is greatly helped by Galchenyuk and Gallagher. And remains to be seen what the future holds for Lehkonen as a possible top 6. But we need to do better. Because Timmins can and proved it in the past. But going solely with numbers, while it might tell you that it proves Timmins can recognize NHL talent.....it doesn't mean that in the end, it's really helping the team at going forward. Last 3 drafts will help shape whatever we all think of him.