Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[flyingfingers]

No what he actually said was what I wrote down. In the post you quoted. I watched the program and took verbatim notes. Did you not read what you quoted? I actually cant believe this response. Are you just too busy living in a fantasy world wanting to hear yourself speak.

You keep posting inaccurate garbage.

Since Andlauder has taken over they have hired amateur scouts, pros in hockey player development, analytics, bolstered the the fitness program with literally the best in the business. Fired two pro scouts from the dorion regime and are in the process of hiring replacements. In hockey ops they have hired Poulin, Jacques Martins and Daniel Alfredsson.

So no its not just been one person. If you want to contribute try and be a little bit accurate if not dont post.

What you quoted literally says that Ottawa was in discussions with Berube, but they weren't willing to pay him what he was asking for.

I mean, your opinion could be "I don't think is Berube is a good coach for this team", and that'd be fine.

But Friedman didn't say that Ottawa moved on because that's what they thought. He said they moved on because his price was in a different stratosphere from what they wanted to pay.

Also, I don't know how anyone can deny that this is still not a skeleton front-office. Is it more polished than what we had before? Sure. But compared to other teams, it's small time. I'll judge them on the moves they make as they make them, and I don't like this hire.

I've laid out the reasons why, and it's not because Travis Green was a Leaf in 2003.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What is Green like as a coach..

.... checks hockeydb... oh sub .500 eh:"?
... shit coach... Rinse repeat 9000 times make the same argument against all others

No one wants to hear the garbage shallow analysis ... Give real examples of where Green fell over as a coach. .. Everyone would like to have some meat in their sandwich.

Show Tanev stats... oh Green is a bad coach with zero insight into deployment, health, partner, situations...
The Hockeydb analysis and forming a strong opinion and pounding the table with that opinion not only shows a lot about those on that track.. it is as ridiculous as it is hilarious.

Don't waste my time by @ing me with the rinse repeat zero depth crap.

 

[flyingfingers]

Crosby (and Malkin) won them two cups, and I like Sullivan.

Okay.

He was the coach of a team that won two Stanley Cups, so while they may be sick of him now that he's been there so long, they'll all give him a standing ovation whenever he's inducted into their Ring of Honor (or whatever they have there).

Better?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's hard to blame anyone being upset about this hire. Everyone would have known how this would go down, and I'm sure Sens brass were aware this would not be met positively.

I would also say that anyone comparing this operation to the Melnyk shit show we witnessed is going completely overboard. This isn't that.

 

[inthewings]

Well he won them two Stanley Cups, so while they may be sick of him now that he's been there so long, they'll all give him a standing ovation whenever he's inducted into their Ring of Honor (or whatever they have there).

It might actually be a bit instructive that he won those Stanley Cups as an unaccomplished coach, fired 7 years earlier after a failed stint as Boston's head coach. He was not considered a 'best in class' coach when Pittsburgh hired him. But he won two cups.

Then Pittsburgh decided to pay him for past accomplishments, giving him a rich extension, presumably because his past cups indicated that he's best in class. Now everyone wants him fired.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Complete loser hire. Staios is an idiot. More personality in the dried out scone sitting on my desk

Nuke it with a cup/glass of water.

the scone

 

[Micklebot]

Nuke it with a cup/glass of water.

the scone

Do you think that will work with Travis Green too? Asking for a friend

 

[flyingfingers]

It might actually be a bit instructive that he won those Stanley Cups as an unaccomplished coach, fired 7 years earlier after a failed stint as Boston's head coach. He was not considered a 'best in class' coach when Pittsburgh hired him. But he won two cups.

Then Pittsburgh decided to pay him for past accomplishments, giving him a rich extension, presumably because his past cups indicate that he's best in class. Now everyone wants him fired.

That's fair. But let's dig even deeper.

Mike Sullivan's record in Boston was 70-56. Not great, but above .500. It still got him fired and it took him 6 seasons as an assistant, learning under John Tortorella, to get another shot.

Meanwhile, Green's record was much less impressive in Vancouver, and he was only an assistant for one season after that poor performance.

What lessons could he have learned in 8 months on yet another underperforming team for us to hand him a 4 year contract to be our head coach?

Most of the time, when you're a failed head coach, it takes a while to work yourself back up in assistant roles. That's the journey that DJ is about to embark on. He may get another chance in 4-5 years if he works on some good staffs.

But with Green, Staios said nah... we like what you did with the Canucks. Have the job!

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Some of you are walking embodiments of confirmation bias. Wow.

Yes the hire is not very exciting but come the f*** on

 

[StoicSensFan]

Do you think that will work with Travis Green too? Asking for a friend

He looks like he's got plenty of water

 

[PlayOn]

Can someone post Green’s win percentage in Vancouver? I haven’t seen it enough yet.

 

[bert]

What you quoted literally says that Ottawa was in discussions with Berube, but they weren't willing to pay him what he was asking for.

I mean, your opinion could be "I don't think is Berube is a good coach for this team", and that'd be fine.

But Friedman didn't say that Ottawa moved on because that's what they thought. He said they moved on because his price was in a different stratosphere from what they wanted to pay.

Also, I don't know how anyone can deny that this is still not a skeleton front-office. Is it more polished than what we had before? Sure. But compared to other teams, it's a depressing group.

Everyone has a price they can pay and are willing to pay. In my exact post that you quoted Friedman hinted that the price was 'in another stratosphere' implying it was a higher price for Ottawa due to it not being his first choice. Do you want a coach where this isnt his first choice?.... If the highest paid coach in the league is currently making 4.9 but going to 5.5 do you think it was less than that? We dont know what it was but if you can read between the lines it was likely a number that was more than 5.5 million. Maybe they have a certain budget and felt they can use it better by spreading it around. I wanted Berube he was my first choice but I am also aware that one coach isnt going to change everything. This organization needs everything. I am also aware of how to run a business and that there simply isnt an unlimited budget. They did their due dilligence this was their decision I am willing to see how it plays out.

You are aware that they took the team over in September of last year the season had already started. How many quality hires were out of work? Did you expect them to fill the entire organization up with people that werent good enough to be employed? Did you not want them to do their due diligence? It seems to me you are very inexperienced in business or management if you think its a good idea to overhaul an organization this size and this valuable in one foul swoop.

They got very lucky with Matt Nichol and what happened with biosteel he fell into their laps and they took advantage and paid him alot for his role.

They immediately grabbed Sean Tierney from sportlogiq the moment they took over the team.

They are slowly yet surely revamping the entire management group in which they have hired 3 people already.

You can try and say this is what Dorion did but there isnt an ounce of truth to it. Dorion couldnt work with anyone. He was too insecure. See Trent Mann, Pierre Mcguire etc etc.

Were seeing a polar opposite scenario play out, Staios has been vocal about getting strong reliable voices surrounding him. There will be many more hires this summer. The internal support for existing management has also been bolstered by bigger budgets for assistants and other types of support.

To suggest this is the same thing is not only inaccurate but its completely ignoring the facts of what has actually transpired before and after Andlauer bought this team. for $950,000,000 but hey if it makes you feel better keep comparing it to Melnyk. Its not accurate but go for it, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[Icelevel]

I mean I can read and read and watch and watch but if it’s true that the problem with berube was a bit of money then its hard not to hate everything about this.

 

[flyingfingers]

Everyone has a price they can pay and are willing to pay. In my exact post that you quoted Friedman hinted that the price was 'in another stratosphere' if the highest paid coach in the league is currently making 4.9 but going to 5.5 do you think it was less than that? We dont know what it was but if you can read between the lines it was likely a number that was more than 5.5 million. Maybe they have a certain budget and felt they can use it better by spreading it around. I wanted Berube he was my first choice but I am also aware that one coach isnt going to change everything. This organization needs everything. I am also aware of how to run a business and that there simply isnt an unlimited budget. They did their due dilligence this was their decision I am willing to see how it plays out.

You are aware that they took the team over in September of last year the season had already started. How many quality hires were out of work? Did you expect them to fill the entire organization up with people that werent good enough to be employed? Did you not want them to do their due diligence? It seems to me you are very inexperienced in business or management if you think its a good idea to overhaul an organization this size and this valuable in one foul swoop.

They got very lucky with Matt Nichol and what happened with biosteel he fell into their laps and they took advantage and paid him alot for his role.

They immediately grabbed Sean Tierney from sportlogiq the moment they took over the team.

They are slowly yet surely revamping the entire management group in which they have hired 3 people already.

You can try and say this is what Dorion did but there isnt an ounce of truth to it. Dorion couldnt work with anyone. He was too insecure.

Were seeing a polar opposite scenario play out. There will be many more hires this summer. The internal support for existing management has also been bolstered by bigger budgets for assistants and other types of support.

To suggest this is the same thing is not only inaccurate but its completely ignoring the facts of what has actually transpired before and after Andlauer bought this team. for $950,000,000 but hey if it makes you feel better keep comparing it to Melnyk. Its not accurate but go for it, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Yes, I would have gladly handed Berube ~$5.5-6M to be this team's head coach.

We wouldn't bat an eye at bringing in another top 6 winger or 2nd pairing RD at that price, would we?

Well over the next 5 years, I'd argue that bringing in a coach like Berube would do more for this team's culture and trajectory than any single player could.

 

[bert]

Yes, I would have gladly handed Berube ~$5.5-6M to be this team's head coach.

We wouldn't bat an eye at bringing in a top 6 winger or 2nd pairing RD at that price, would we?

Well over the next 5 years, I'd argue that bringing in a coach like Berube would do more for this team's culture and trajectory than any single player could.

Its easy to spend other peoples money. Congratulations. Theres a salary cap they are spending to it regardless. Not the same thing.

 

[PlayOn]

I mean I can read and read and watch and watch but if it’s true that the problem with berube was a bit of money then its hard not to hate everything about this.

I think there’s a difference between “We like Berube and we like Green, but the difference between them is X millions of dollars so we’re comfortable with Green” vs “Berube is way better than Green but we’re not willing to pay him”

It’s hard to get upset without knowing what the logic there is. It would be naive to think that money isn’t a factor for most decisions, the question is to what degree. The problem with Melnyk was that it was the be all and end all, not that it came into play.

 

[Micklebot]

That's fair. But let's dig even deeper.

Mike Sullivan's record in Boston was 70-56. Not great, but above .500. It still got him fired and it took him 6 seasons as an assistant, learning under John Tortorella, to get another shot.

Meanwhile, Green's record was much less impressive in Vancouver, and he was only an assistant for one season after that poor performance.

What lessons could he have learned in 8 months on yet another underperforming team for us to hand him a 4 year contract to be our head coach?

Most of the time, when you're a failed head coach, it takes a while to work yourself back up in assistant roles. That's the journey that DJ is about to embark on. He may get another chance in 4-5 years if he works on some good staffs.

But with Green, Staios said nah... we like what you did with the Canucks. Have the job!

He also took over a playoff team with Prime Thornton, some quality vets in Knuble, Rolston Murray, Axelsson and Lapointe, great rookies like Bergeron and a Calder winning Rycroft, a young Samsonov,

When the traded off Thornton, everything fell apart and he couldn't even hit a 500 record.

But I guess you have to look a touch deeper for that context.

 

[DueDiligence]

That is why Canadian teams do not win Stanley cups anymore. Leafs are the exception, but the best in class, treat them as a quick cash cow to go to US for a greener pasture.

With that statement you have lost any credibility you had left.

 

[flyingfingers]

Its easy to spend other peoples money. Congratulations. Theres a salary cap they are spending to it regardless. Not the same thing.

What's Green making? Probably $2-2.25M per year for 4 years?

If you had paid Berube $6Mx4 instead, that's a $15M difference over the course of 4 seasons. There are all sorts of ways to justify that expense and make it back.

For an NHL team owned by a billionaire, that shouldn't be a deal breaker. And if it is, yes, it signals to me that the group is cheap and will cut corners.

And no, if you're a billionaire to whom I'm paying thousands a year for tickets, on top of the $18 Bud Lights and $25 corn field parking rates, I have no problem asking you to spend some money on a good coach.

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have bought the team.

 

[Icelevel]

I think there’s a difference between “We like Berube and we like Green, but the difference between them is X millions of dollars so we’re comfortable with Green” vs “Berube is way better than Green but we’re not willing to pay him”

It’s hard to get upset without knowing what the logic there is. It would be naive to think that money isn’t a factor for most decisions, the question is to what degree. The problem with Melnyk was that it was the be all and end all, not that it came into play.

As posted here, the top coaches get less than 5mil so we’re talking about 1 mil difference? 1.5, 2mil?
That’s peanuts if it’s the difference between getting the coach you want and getting another guy who might do alright too.
The coach is IMPORTANT. Don’t f around.

 

[Stylizer1]

What an underwhelming hire by an ownership we were so fired up to get.

He is clearly the stop gap to an elite coach right?

 

[flyingfingers]

He also took over a playoff team with Prime Thornton, some quality vets in Knuble, Rolston Murray, Axelsson and Lapointe, great rookies like Bergeron and a Calder winning Rycroft, a young Samsonov,

When the traded off Thornton, everything fell apart and he couldn't even hit a 500 record.

But I guess you have to look a touch deeper for that context.

Travis Green took over a team that still had good vets like the Sedins and Edler, a top-end goalie in Markstrom and young players like Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson coming up and making an impact.

The team sucked for most of the time and their underlying numbers were as bad as the scorched earth rebuilding Ottawa Senators.

But hey, he bag skated them at camp and did his best Bill Belichick impression with the media.

 

[PlayOn]

As posted here, the top coaches get less than 5mil so we’re talking about 1 mil difference? 1.5, 2mil?
That’s peanuts if it’s the difference between getting the coach you want and getting another guy who might do alright too.
The coach is IMPORTANT. Don’t f around.

Let’s say Berube wants 4 mil x 5 yrs and Green got 2.5 mil for 4 yrs.

That’s a difference of 10 million dollars. It’s not insignificant.

Obviously these are random numbers, but the point is with term it adds up.

 

[Siludin]

I'll be a bit constructive here, and suggest that Travis Green clearly is clearly respected at a relatively young age to get an NHL HC position, and retains enough respect in hockey circles to now have gotten multiple looks at NHL head coaching positions.
We have seen plenty of these head coaching storylines where these younger coaches get off to a weird start - maybe some minor playoff success, but also some disappointing regular seasons that leave you scratching your head like, "how come they keep giving this guy looks?". Guys like Paul Maurice, Rick Bowness, and even Rick Tocchet come to mind in this category, and those guys all had amazing outings with their respective clubs this year.
There may just be something about Green that impresses management/hockey ops staff, and it's entirely conceivable that someone can get better at the art of coaching into their venerable years. Green might spin out here but there's plenty of precedent to the contrary.

 

[Micklebot]

Travis Green took over a team that still had good vets like the Sedins and Edler, a top-end goalie in Markstrom and young players like Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson coming up and making an impact.

The team sucked for most of the time and their underlying numbers were as bad as the scorched earth rebuilding Ottawa Senators.

But hey, he bag skated them at camp and did his best Bill Belichick impression with the media.

Yeah, the nucks were coming off a 69 pt season, and 75 pts the year before, when Green took over, maybe try and actually understand the situation he came into before comparing it to Sullivan coming into the Bruins