Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[Micklebot]

I think Green can do more, if John Torterella was coaching this team I don’t think we’d see the team continually be loose in the neutral zones and the lines.

no confidence in the players either, maybe only Timmy looks confident. Brady looks miserable, Ullmark is talking about Goldfish - not a group of go getters.

Not feeling confident.

Confidence comes with wins, hopefully we can pull some off and get the ball rolling.

Flyers are an interesting comparison. which team is which?

	Team A	Team B
Goals for	74​	70​
Goals against	78​	81​
SF/G	30.92​	27.72​
SA/GP	27.75​	28.28​
5v5 xGF/60*	2.38​	2.37​
5v5 xGA/60*	2.27​	2.61​

Edit: fixed typos*

 

[Tuna99]

Confidence comes with wins, hopefully we can pull some off and get the ball rolling.

Flyers are an interesting comparison. which team is which?

	Team A	Team B
Goals for	74​	70​
Goals against	78​	81​
SF/G	30.92​	27.72​
SA/GP	27.75​	28.28​
5v5 xGA/60	2.38​	2.37​
5v5 xGF/60	2.27​	2.61​

not sure, ill say we are team B, but everyone in Philly is on notice, we get angry as a fanbase and we have Elliot Friedman writing us emails from his condo in Toronto telling us to settle down.

One team is being tested in fire, the other team is being coddled. One team is purposely being tested under imposed pressure from the coach, the other team has no pressure and the organization itself doesn’t want them playing under pressure, Mendes wants friendly headlines and Green wants happy news conferences and it lets the players off the hook.

Green shocks say “the fans are right, the team is playing soft, the fans deserve more.” But we get “dont do that, they don’t deserve it”

 

[BankStreetParade]

Confidence comes with wins, hopefully we can pull some off and get the ball rolling.

Flyers are an interesting comparison. which team is which?

	Team A	Team B
Goals for	74​	70​
Goals against	78​	81​
SF/G	30.92​	27.72​
SA/GP	27.75​	28.28​
5v5 xGA/60	2.38​	2.37​
5v5 xGF/60	2.27​	2.61​

I'm guessing the team that's expected to score more than they allow is the one that's currently 5 points ahead of us in the standings?

 

[Micklebot]

I'm guessing the team that's expected to score more than they allow is the one that's currently 5 points ahead of us in the standings?

not sure, ill say we are team B,

You'd be wrong. We're team A,

 

[BankStreetParade]

You'd be wrong. We're team A,

How would that make me wrong?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Our issue is more costly breakdowns rather than inability to play solid D or offense.

This isn't a new trend, it was there before Green's time, I think the play between breakdowns is better, the problem as I see it is we've shifted to low event hockey, which means that if/when a breakdown happens, it's more likely to be pivotal to the outcome of a game.

All that said;

I'm not sure you can blame Green for Pinto pacing at 15 pts, or whatever it is.
I'm not sure you can blame Green for Ullmark not playing up to reputation.
I'm not sure you can blame Green for Sanderson going from ~51%GF 5v5 last year to 27% this year.

None of those imo are coaching issues so far as I can tell, but are likely the difference between us being in a playoff spot right now and where we actually are.

There are some things I'd like Green to do differently, try JBD with Sanderson, maybe give one of Norris or Pinto a look on the wing instead of always Greig, or be willing to run with the hot goalie a little more when Ullmark was struggling, but imo the biggest hinderances to our success this year have been outside of what a coach can really influence. Doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement, just that you can only control so much.

COSTLY breakdowns sure.

We don’t breakdown any more often most other teams.

If our goalie is on breakdowns are less costly.

 

[Micklebot]

How would that make me wrong?

Team A is expected to score more than they allow (2.38 xGF > 2.27 xGA), while Team b is expected to allow more than they score (2.37 xGF < 2.61 xGA) by those stats.

Team A also has a better actual goals ratio, more goals for (Team A's 74 >Team B's 70 GF), and fewer goals against (Team A's 78 < Team B's 81 GA) than team B.

 

[BigRig4]

I think Green can do more, if John Torterella was coaching this team I don’t think we’d see the team continually be loose in the neutral zones and the lines.

no confidence in the players either, maybe only Timmy looks confident. Brady looks miserable, Ullmark is talking about Goldfish - not a group of go getters.

Not feeling confident.

Is there’s one thing I’ve learned being around hockey most of my life, it’s that goalies are incredibly weird. Wouldn’t read too much into that one

 

[Micklebot]

COSTLY breakdowns sure.

We don’t breakdown any more often most other teams.

If our goalie is on breakdowns are less costly.

I think there's a bit more than just the goalie at play, that doesn't mean you're wrong, you aren't, but I do think while we don't breakdown any more often than other teams, our breakdowns might be worse than average in terms of just how bad they are. That's just my feeling, on it, maybe that's coloured by the end results more so than fairly comparing the actual breakdowns, idk.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think there's a bit more than just the goalie at play, that doesn't mean you're wrong, you aren't, but I do think while we don't breakdown any more often than other teams, our breakdowns might be worse than average in terms of just how bad they are. That's just my feeling, on it, maybe that's coloured by the end results more so than fairly comparing the actual breakdowns, idk.

I think so

Every game since the start basically I document here all the egregious breakdowns by the other team as well. And there’s been a ton. That we don’t score on.

End results of course at the end of the day are the most importsnt thing. But it definitely skews perception.

I mean just look at Eric macramella the other day.

He posts korpisalos numbers and Ullmarks. And says “team defence matters!” Uh huh someone clearly did not watch the games or even bother to take a peak at f***ing swaymans numbers. And he’s on the radio and some would consider knowledgeable.

Anyone I know you know this. It’s just frustrating.

I feel like there has been a legit dip in commitment last 5 games tho. I’ve mentioned before that Philly game really did a number on the players. We had to win in Carolina to get some confidence back to reward the guys. Instead we got a horribly officiated game that probably only made them more frustrated.

Like just in the third period last game we had 4 odd man rushes. We got 1 shot on all of them combined…. If we give up a 2 on 1 and the other team Scores well that’s seen as a major breakdown while it may seeem like the other team played a professional third period.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Team A is expected to score more than they allow (2.38 xGF > 2.27 xGA), while Team b is expected to allow more than they score (2.37 xGF < 2.61 xGA) by those stats.

Team A also has a better actual goals ratio, more goals for (Team A's 74 >Team B's 70 GF), and fewer goals against (Team A's 78 < Team B's 81 GA) than team B.

That's not how you wrote it.

 

[Micklebot]

I think so

Every game since the start basically I document here all the egregious breakdowns by the other team as well. And there’s been a ton. That we don’t score on.

End results of course at the end of the day are the most importsnt thing. But it definitely skews

Like just in the third period last game we had 4 odd man rushes. We got 1 shot on all of them combined…. If we give up a 2 on 1 and the other team Scores well that’s seen as a major breakdown while it may seeem like the other team played a professional third period.

Some of it might be confidence, when you're riding high, you rip that shot on net, when you feel like nothing you do is good enough, you might look for a pass that never materializes and run out of time.

I think we got to be a bit more selfish on our odd man rushes, get that shot off and drive the net for a rebound, nothing kills momentum like not even getting a shot off on a prime chance.

 

[Micklebot]

That's not how you wrote it.

ah crap that's a typo, my bad

Fixed it.

 

[BigRig4]

I think so

Every game since the start basically I document here all the egregious breakdowns by the other team as well. And there’s been a ton. That we don’t score on.

End results of course at the end of the day are the most importsnt thing. But it definitely skews perception.

I mean just look at Eric macramella the other day.

He posts korpisalos numbers and Ullmarks. And says “team defence matters!” Uh huh someone clearly did not watch the games or even bother to take a peak at f***ing swaymans numbers. And he’s on the radio and some would consider knowledgeable.

Anyone I know you know this. It’s just frustrating.

I feel like there has been a legit dip in commitment last 5 games tho. I’ve mentioned before that Philly game really did a number on the players. We had to win in Carolina to get some confidence back to reward the guys. Instead we got a horribly officiated game that probably only made them more frustrated.

Like just in the third period last game we had 4 odd man rushes. We got 1 shot on all of them combined…. If we give up a 2 on 1 and the other team Scores well that’s seen as a major breakdown while it may seeem like the other team played a professional third period.

It’s funny you identify the Philly game because I saw someone post our stats pre and post that game and that’s the exact moment we went from a top 10 xG% team to a bottom 10 one. So you’re pretty spot on.

 

[Micklebot]

the Philly game because I saw someone post our stats pre and post that game and that’s the exact moment we went from a top 10 xG% team to a bottom 10 one. So you’re pretty spot on.

I mean, right after Philly, we played Vegas, Edm, Carolina, and Vancouver so that's a pretty tough stretch, though we didn't really help ourselves with that SJ game when the schedule got more favourable...

 

[Burrowsaurus]

It’s funny you identify the Philly game because I saw someone post our stats pre and post that game and that’s the exact moment we went from a top 10 xG% team to a bottom 10 one. So you’re pretty spot on.

While I truly truly believe the guys have performed better this year they are still a little emotionally fragile.

And then the very next game we have that bad first. But we do weather the storm. And then we go toe to toe with Carolina over the next two periods. And get a goal hilariously called back. And end up getting kinda blown out. Like those two games I think were too much for the guys to take (which is a problem in itself) and they just sagged. Although I don’t think we were that bad against Vegas and Vancouver. So we slowly dragged ourselves back

I mean, right after Philly, we played Vegas, Edm, Carolina, and Vancouver so that's a pretty tough stretch, though we didn't really help ourselves with that SJ game when the schedule got more favourable...

Yeah but we played Vegas earlier in the year and Toronto and Florida and played good.

 

[Micklebot]

While I truly truly believe the guys have performed better this year they are still a little emotionally fragile.

And then the very next game we have that bad first. But we do weather the storm. And then we go toe to toe with Carolina over the next two periods. And get a goal hilariously called back. And end up getting kinda blown out. Like those two games I think were too much for the guys to take (which is a problem in itself) and they just sagged. Although I don’t think we were that bad against Vegas and Vancouver. So we slowly dragged ourselves back


Yeah but we played Vegas earlier in the year and Toronto and Florida and played good.

It's worth pointing out just how much that SJ game impacts the rank too,

With the SJ game, we are 29th in the league in xGF% after the Flyers game.
Removing the SJ game, we are 20th in the league in xGF% after the Flyers game.

The Vancouver game might not have felt as bad because we didn't give up a tone of chances, but we created nothing 5v5, so it also had a big impact on the ranking (similar impact to the VGK game).

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

While I truly truly believe the guys have performed better this year they are still a little emotionally fragile.

And then the very next game we have that bad first. But we do weather the storm. And then we go toe to toe with Carolina over the next two periods. And get a goal hilariously called back. And end up getting kinda blown out. Like those two games I think were too much for the guys to take (which is a problem in itself) and they just sagged. Although I don’t think we were that bad against Vegas and Vancouver. So we slowly dragged ourselves back


Yeah but we played Vegas earlier in the year and Toronto and Florida and played good.

I agree with your assessments. It's undeniable they've been better this year, but they still seem too fragile and have gotten away from it as the results have slipped away. If they can get it back, and Ullmark plays well, who knows.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

While I truly truly believe the guys have performed better this year they are still a little emotionally fragile.

And then the very next game we have that bad first. But we do weather the storm. And then we go toe to toe with Carolina over the next two periods. And get a goal hilariously called back. And end up getting kinda blown out. Like those two games I think were too much for the guys to take (which is a problem in itself) and they just sagged. Although I don’t think we were that bad against Vegas and Vancouver. So we slowly dragged ourselves back


Yeah but we played Vegas earlier in the year and Toronto and Florida and played good.

I agree they have played better , particularly the 1st 10 games or so. I think they are more than a little emotionally fragile... if its just a little then they just don't give enough of a shit

 

[UglyPuckling]

Our issue is more costly breakdowns rather than inability to play solid D or offense.

This isn't a new trend, it was there before Green's time, I think the play between breakdowns is better, the problem as I see it is we've shifted to low event hockey, which means that if/when a breakdown happens, it's more likely to be pivotal to the outcome of a game.

All that said;

I'm not sure you can blame Green for Pinto pacing at 15 pts, or whatever it is.
I'm not sure you can blame Green for Ullmark not playing up to reputation.
I'm not sure you can blame Green for Sanderson going from ~51%GF 5v5 last year to 27% this year.

None of those imo are coaching issues so far as I can tell, but are likely the difference between us being in a playoff spot right now and where we actually are.

There are some things I'd like Green to do differently, try JBD with Sanderson, maybe give one of Norris or Pinto a look on the wing instead of always Greig, or be willing to run with the hot goalie a little more when Ullmark was struggling, but imo the biggest hinderances to our success this year have been outside of what a coach can really influence. Doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement, just that you can only control so much.

My post wasn’t directed at Green or a comment on how well he is coaching. But, if we are playing good offense and defense which was mentioned in the post quoted, I don’t think we’d have a .458 record.

 

[Micklebot]

My post wasn’t directed at Green or a comment on how well he is coaching. But, if we are playing good offense and defense which was mentioned in the post quoted, I don’t think we’d have a .458 record.

We're currently 18th in the league in goal differential at -4, certainly could be better, but not what you expect from a team that's .480 after tonight's game. Bos, Phi, col and STL are all 500 or better and double digit negative goal differential.

Sometimes the standings are about getting timely defense and timely scoring, moreso than good scoring and good defense.

Imo, we are the opposite of a team that gets timely scoring and defense, but we aren't bad defensively or offensively overall.

 

[Norris4Norris]

We're currently 18th in the league in goal differential at -4, certainly could be better, but not what you expect from a team that's .480 after tonight's game. Bos, Phi, col and STL are all 500 or better and double digit negative goal differential.

Sometimes the standings are about getting timely defense and timely scoring, moreso than good scoring and good defense.

Imo, we are the opposite of a team that gets timely scoring and defense, but we aren't bad defensively or offensively overall.

We are bad defensively and offensively.

You can say oh well we have a bad win percentage relative to the team's plus/minus.

The Sens go off on a bad team 8-1. That doesn't mean we have a good offense. My nephew who is 4 understands that scoring when it is needed is crucial and scoring in garbage time is not.

You are saying the Sens are good defensively and offensively except for when it counts.

Green has eyes in his head. He can see the score. The fact that he can't get this team to play relative to the score at hand is a very bad sign if you want a good coach.

My post wasn’t directed at Green or a comment on how well he is coaching. But, if we are playing good offense and defense which was mentioned in the post quoted, I don’t think we’d have a .458 record.

You're right.

The people saying Green is doing a good job except when it counts are ridiculous.

People are living in a dreamland where goals and scores don't matter.

 

[Micklebot]

We are bad defensively and offensively.

You can say oh well we have a bad win percentage relative to the team's plus/minus.

The Sens go off on a bad team 8-1. That doesn't mean we have a good offense. My nephew who is 4 understands that scoring when it is needed is crucial and scoring in garbage time is not.

You are saying the Sens are good defensively and offensively except for when it counts.

Green has eyes in his head. He can see the score. The fact that he can't get this team to play relative to the score at hand is a very bad sign if you want a good coach.


You're right.

The people saying Green is doing a good job except when it counts are ridiculous.

People are living in a dreamland where goals and scores don't matter.

Hmm, if that's what you got from my post, then I gave better ways to spend my time then debate someone looking to complain.

 

[LiseL]

Some of these I can live with.

Greig, Pinto, Amadio, Perron, Chabot, Sanderson having 0-2 goals each to this point is wild though.

Perron has barely played compared to the others so hard to lump him in with that group IMO. At least Chabot has been setting up ES goals. If Sandy wasn't on PP1, his #'s would be even sadder.

Green probably mesmerized the brass with his BS about conditioning and fitness. They bought it because of poor starts.

Well, we've been told he's a good communicator. I guess that's also true during interviews.

 

[LiseL]

He was interested in the job too as was Julien

It was definitely a money decision

Julien took an assistant job with St. Louis, his money ask couldn't have been outrageous. He was already living in Ottawa, but I don't think he was even interviewed. Now that's a coach that understands D. Plus he won a cup with the Bruins.

As for Columbus, do they spend a lot of $$$ on coaches? I'm guessing probably yes as they had Torts for a period of time. Would not think he came cheap.