Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[Sens of Anarchy]

I like Alfie being there.. he represents some continuity .. The coaching staff looks great imo .. much better than it has in a very long time

 

[Loach]

I like Alfie being there.. he represents some continuity .. The coaching staff looks great imo .. much better than it has in a very long time

Since Jaques 1.0 I would say. Martin, Pearn, Ramsay at the start. Martin, Pearn, Neilson later.

 

[SENATOR]

I like Alfie being there.. he represents some continuity .. The coaching staff looks great imo .. much better than it has in a very long time

The coaching staff looks great how? You always post some sugarcoated, likes - begging posts, nothing to do with reality. Alfie is learning the ropes, which is fine under a seasoned and successful coach. But not under Green, who is a worst under .500 walking disaster in NHL. And then Baumgartner who? Yeo is fired - too many times - recycled mediocrity. Ben Sexton as any kind of a coach is a joke. Has to coach first at least a peewee hockey team.

 

[Silencio]

Green seems like Guy Boucher 2.0. Detail oriented taskmaster who gets his players to overachieve initially until they burn out and lose interest after a season or two.

 

[Loach]

The coaching staff looks great how? You always post some sugarcoated, likes - begging posts, nothing to do with reality. Alfie is learning the ropes, which is fine under a seasoned and successful coach. But not under Green, who is a worst under .500 walking disaster in NHL. And then Baumgartner who? Yeo is fired - too many times - recycled mediocrity. Ben Sexton as any kind of a coach is a joke. Has to coach first at least a peewee hockey team.

Arrrrrr!

 

[Micklebot]

Green seems like Guy Boucher 2.0. Detail oriented taskmaster who gets his players to overachieve initially until they burn out and lose interest after a season or two.

Well, it was season three where they hit their stride under Green in Vancouver, and then due to Covid there was some significant roster turnover combined with injury issues which are tougher to overcome in a shortened season.

Idk if Green is or isn't the type of coach with a short shelf life, his time in Vancouver doesn't imo provide any real clues on that front.

 

[Senscore]

Given the state of coaching in the NHL lately it seems most are 'burning out' in a season or two regardless of style.

 

[Samboni]

Green seems like Guy Boucher 2.0. Detail oriented taskmaster who gets his players to overachieve initially until they burn out and lose interest after a season or two.

I get the Craig Hartsburg vibe, I truly hope I’m wrong. Like many fans, I’ve been disappointed with the coaching choices so am not optimistic going forward.

 

[Beech]

Since Jaques 1.0 I would say. Martin, Pearn, Ramsay at the start. Martin, Pearn, Neilson later.

most bombed afterwards. Neilson may be coaching in the clouds. RIP.

try
1994.. Alfredson, Bonk drafted.
1995.. Berard drafted. He would be traded for Redden and Rhodes
1996.. Philips, Dackell, Salo.. Salo traded for Schaefer
1997.. Hossa, Arvedson
1998..Fisher, Neil
1999.. Havlat, Kelly
2000..Volchenkov, Vermette
2001..Spezza, Gleason (who became Smolinski)

it was not Jacques or any coach. It has never been. Not here, not anywhere.

17 players in 8 years of drafting. One of the greatest periods in NHL history.

Green could have 4 deaf, dumb, blind, and mentally challenged assistants, and still win if the 2014-2021 drafts had been close to the 94-01. But if it was, DJ would be coach and working on his 3rd Jack Adams.

Skill/competence is needed one department up. in fact 2. It starts and ends with Andlauer.

 

[Micklebot]

I get the Craig Hartsburg vibe, I truly hope I’m wrong. Like many fans, I’ve been disappointed with the coaching choices so am not optimistic going forward.

Hartsburg stuffed offensive creativity to shore up the defense, that's not really what Green is about,

He may end up working out as poorly as hartsburg, but I don't think they are particularly similar, even if both stressed accountability on their arrival

 

[Beech]

Hartsburg stuffed offensive creativity to shore up the defense, that's not really what Green is about,

He may end up working out as poorly as hartsburg, but I don't think they are particularly similar, even if both stressed accountability on their arrival

by 2008/2009 when Hartsburg took over.

2002 draft ... ZERO yield
2003 draft .. Patrick Eaves (3rd liner).. B. Elliot goalie, would not appear until 2008/2009
2004 draft.. Meszaros.. started out strong, faded and was traded by 08
2005 draft.. minor leaguers and 3rd/4th liners
2006 draft.. Foligno and 3rd/4th liners. Foligno would not contribute until 2008/2009
2007 draft..ZERO yield (But it would not have impacted the 2008/09 season)

now look at what Murray inherited in 2005/06 and Jacques in 95/96 (realistically 96/97)

And for those that criticize Paddock and Clouston. See what they inherited.

Blame lies 2 floors up.. The Euge. And his piss poor handling and his piss poor hiring and/or maintaining GMs.

Greene will be fried if the 2020 class does not improve that 5-10%. If Pinto does not improve that 5-10%. If Ostapchuk does not evolve into a quality player. If someone does not "surprisingly" develop from the 22 and 23 drafts.

No greater myth than the "great coach myth". Try the great GM, director of amature scouting, amature scouts.

 

[Micklebot]

by 2008/2009 when Hartsburg took over.

2002 draft ... ZERO yield
2003 draft .. Patrick Eaves (3rd liner).. B. Elliot goalie, would not appear until 2008/2009
2004 draft.. Meszaros.. started out strong, faded and was traded by 08
2005 draft.. minor leaguers and 3rd/4th liners
2006 draft.. Foligno and 3rd/4th liners. Foligno would not contribute until 2008/2009
2007 draft..ZERO yield (But it would not have impacted the 2008/09 season)

now look at what Murray inherited in 2005/06 and Jacques in 95/96 (realistically 96/97)

And for those that criticize Paddock and Clouston. See what they inherited.

Blame lies 2 floors up.. The Euge. And his piss poor handling and his piss poor hiring and/or maintaining GMs.

Greene will be fried if the 2020 class does not improve that 5-10%. If Pinto does not improve that 5-10%. If Ostapchuk does not evolve into a quality player. If someone does not "surprisingly" develop from the 22 and 23 drafts.

No greater myth than the "great coach myth". Try the great GM, director of amature scouting, amature scouts.

Paddock inherited a team that went to the SCF 4 months earlier and he lasted 64 games.

Clouston saw immediate success with the same group Hartsburg coached to an sub 500 record.

Drafting is of course important, but those coaches had strong enough rosters to get better results, poor drafting doesn't just turn off the tap and turn good teams into bad, it's more like eroding a coastline, a slow process with long term implications that become felt as time goes on.

 

[Beech]

Paddock inherited a team that went to the SCF 4 months earlier and he lasted 64 games.

Clouston saw immediate success with the same group Hartsburg coached to an sub 500 record.

Drafting is of course important, but those coaches had strong enough rosters to get better results, poor drafting doesn't just turn off the tap and turn good teams into bad, it's more like eroding a coastline, a slow process with long term implications that become felt as time goes on.

There is nothing slow about it. Pro sports is a square wave not a sine wave.

The single most important player on your team is your rookie. The second most is your year 2 guy and so on. You have free agency, injures, trades. In extreme case, you can have 4-5 key pieces leave in one year. The pipe line of players 1-6 years in is everything.

Had Brian Murray remained as coach in 2007/2008, he would have failed. Take a look at the roster.. Fisher, Neil, 28/29.. Chara gone. Alfredson is 34.
Philips, Redden (who would leave), and 3-4 others are 30 plus. A red line that is now gone, putting a premium on speed.

11 guys were 30 and over. Luke Richardson was 38. SQUARE wave. The 2002-2006 drafts needed to fill the roster, what did it produce? as of the 2007/2008 season. Nothing!

an example of the up cycle of the square wave.. 1996/1997.. 10 players were 23 and younger. All acquired 2-5 years earlier. Catastrophic 95/96. Playoffs 96/97. The down cycle is the 2007/2008 season.

and all seasons since have simply been hampered by poor drafting. And every coach since has been holding an open gas can and a match. Minor uptick in draft 2008-2011. Minor uptick in performance 2011-2017. Again MINOR uptick in both.

If the world is your oyster and you can pick and chose. Look at hockeydb draft for a potential team and dismiss any that have not faired well 1-6 years before the opening. granted, if they have faired well, odds are good their old coach is still there. Crazy circumstances gets a job, here in there, to open up at the most opportune time. Hello Tocchet.

 

[Micklebot]

There is nothing slow about it. Pro sports is a square wave not a sine wave.

The single most important player on your team is your rookie. The second most is your year 2 guy and so on. You have free agency, injures, trades. In extreme case, you can have 4-5 key pieces leave in one year. The pipe line of players 1-6 years in is everything.

Had Brian Murray remained as coach in 2007/2008, he would have failed. Take a look at the roster.. Fisher, Neil, 28/29.. Chara gone. Alfredson is 34.
Philips, Redden (who would leave), and 3-4 others are 30 plus. A red line that is now gone, putting a premium on speed.

11 guys were 30 and over. Luke Richardson was 38. SQUARE wave. The 2002-2006 drafts needed to fill the roster, what did it produce? as of the 2007/2008 season. Nothing!

an example of the up cycle of the square wave.. 1996/1997.. 10 players were 23 and younger. All acquired 2-5 years earlier. Catastrophic 95/96. Playoffs 96/97. The down cycle is the 2007/2008 season.

and all seasons since have simply been hampered by poor drafting. And every coach since has been holding an open gas can and a match. Minor uptick in draft 2008-2011. Minor uptick in performance 2011-2017. Again MINOR uptick in both.

If the world is your oyster and you can pick and chose. Look at hockeydb draft for a potential team and dismiss any that have not faired well 1-6 years before the opening. granted, if they have faired well, odds are good their old coach is still there. Crazy circumstances gets a job, here in there, to open up at the most opportune time. Hello Tocchet.

So much nonesense. Rookies aren't the most important players on teams, 2nd year guys aren't the second most. Edmonton has no rookies playing right now, Florida has no rookies. NYR had 2 rookies that barely played in the playoffs. Sure, sometimes you get an impact player on the ELC, but that's not the norm.

Luke Richardson was as a 6th D, he had nothing to do with Paddocks lack of success, Chara was gone before we went to the SCF.

So why is it that Clouston saw results with the same group Hartsburg failed with? Hartsburg had a .427 pts% compared to Clouston having .586pts % in his first two seasons, Clouston wasn't benefiting from superior drafting, he took over the same team with the same drafting record

You need to look beyond a simple correlation to see the truth, establishing causation takes a much more comprehensive examination than looking at Hockey DB draft history on your favourite team...

 

[Adele Dazeem]

most bombed afterwards. Neilson may be coaching in the clouds. RIP.

try
1994.. Alfredson, Bonk drafted.
1995.. Berard drafted. He would be traded for Redden and Rhodes
1996.. Philips, Dackell, Salo.. Salo traded for Schaefer
1997.. Hossa, Arvedson
1998..Fisher, Neil
1999.. Havlat, Kelly
2000..Volchenkov, Vermette
2001..Spezza, Gleason (who became Smolinski)

it was not Jacques or any coach. It has never been. Not here, not anywhere.

17 players in 8 years of drafting. One of the greatest periods in NHL history.

Green could have 4 deaf, dumb, blind, and mentally challenged assistants, and still win if the 2014-2021 drafts had been close to the 94-01. But if it was, DJ would be coach and working on his 3rd Jack Adams.

Skill/competence is needed one department up. in fact 2. It starts and ends with Andlauer.

Oh give me a break.
I've always preached you need to draft about 2 surefire NHL players every draft to stay afloat, and you are showing exactly that with your post.
That being said, without proper guidance, development its all for naught.
There are players out there who could've had long lasting NHL careers who we haven't heard of. The reason? Too many to list. Many outside variables at play to simply say "they have it or they don't"

 

[Golden_Jet]

Green could have 4 deaf, dumb, blind, and mentally challenged assistants, and still win if the 2014-2021 drafts had been close to the 94-01. But if it was, DJ would be coach and working on his 3rd Jack Adams.

But can they play pinball.

 

[Beech]

So much nonesense. Rookies aren't the most important players on teams, 2nd year guys aren't the second most.1) Edmonton has no rookies playing right now, Florida has no rookies. NYR had 2 rookies that barely played in the playoffs. Sure, sometimes you get an impact player on the ELC, but that's not the norm.

2) Luke Richardson was as a 6th D, he had nothing to do with Paddocks lack of success, Chara was gone before we went to the SCF.

3) So why is it that Clouston saw results with the same group Hartsburg failed with? Hartsburg had a .427 pts% compared to Clouston having .586pts % in his first two seasons, Clouston wasn't benefiting from superior drafting, he took over the same team with the same drafting record

You need to look beyond a simple correlation to see the truth, establishing causation takes a much more comprehensive examination than looking at Hockey DB draft history on your favourite team...

1) McJesus and Leon are unicorns. Both came in at 18/19 and instant Oiler success. That has meant FAs are willing to go there. Hello Hyman. As for Miami.. come on, tax free state, nice weather. They can just about give up their draft.

we are not them. Nor any some 23-24 teams. These teams need a constant injection of youth. That youth keeps cost reasonable, keeps the energy of the squad up (Youthful exuberance) and prevents veterans from blackmailing you into unreasonable contracts. And from taking spots that will hurt team speed and energy.

2) See the entire 2007/2008-2009/2010 roster. See age. See a lack of productive youth.

3) what success? a new coach/old coach firing shock in 2008/2009. A dead cat bounce in 2009/2010. And back to the toilette in 2010/2011.

no one said that trades, FAs, the personality and style of a coach do not matter. But the reality is; draft well and watch. And see the impact. Do not draft well and see if you can compensate!

Jimmy Johnson in Dallas (cowboys). Rock star. !987-1993 drafting.. OFF the F'ng chart
Jimmy Johnson, Miami late 1990's... Not a rock star!!!!

Billie B in New England. 1999-2019 rock star. Drafting off the chart (and a Unicorn in Brady)
Billie B in New England 2019-2023, Not a rock star. His ass fired.

I can continue. See Dick Irvin Sr. Old Scottie B. jumped very carefully and wisely.

Sullivan In Pitt... well!!! Sid got old and the draft dried up. Johnson 2012-2018 rock star. Since, he is well paid and average teams. Cooper will follow.

Take a look at Chicago. 2002-2007 rock solid drafting. 2007/2008 instant rise from hell. 7 years later, 2015. Back down to hell.

there are good coaches and bad. But the separation is far smaller. What there is is: Good Gms and Bad. And there, the impact is massive.

Old Green is going to have to live and die with: someone from 2022 and 2023 drafts materializing. Osta from 2021, maybe even Boucher, playing well. The 2020s soaring. Pinto soaring. Otherwise 2026/2027 may just see another coach.

 

[Beech]

But can they play pinball.

are you old enough to know that, or did you look it up? Elton John is 77!

 

[Golden_Jet]

are you old enough to know that, or did you look it up? Elton John is 77!

Nope didn’t look it up, Elton with a good remake.

But also saw the Who play a 2 hour Tommy set, take a 10-15 minute break, then another 2 hour regular concert.

 

[Beech]

Oh give me a break.
I've always preached you need to draft about 2 surefire NHL players every draft to stay afloat, and you are showing exactly that with your post.
That being said, without proper guidance, development its all for naught.
There are players out there who could've had long lasting NHL careers who we haven't heard of. The reason? Too many to list. Many outside variables at play to simply say "they have it or they don't"

no one denies the importance of good coaching. But keep in mind, by the time a guy is considered for an HC, he has gone through the ranks. Has learned from others, Has attended coaching clinics. Was probably a player.

And so how much do you think separate them?

the lucky ones get jobs in opportune moments. Teams on the rise, Unicorns coming in. Some crazy trade or FA occurs, and they are set. They win, establish a name and survive.

Other coaches get hired by Dorion, and the ship is sinking and their careers take a hit. See any Ottawa coach the last 17 years.

John Cooper, Mike Sullivan, got a wining lottery ticket. Hello 20 years of employment at serious coin. Thank you Sid and Gino. Thank you Steve, Victor and Kuch. And the GMs who brought them in.

I have yet to hear of any real, solid, tangible change that Knoblauch did in Edmonton! McJesus and Leon awaken and he is the new Scottie Bowman!!! Really?

 

[Beech]

Nope didn’t look it up, Elton with a good remake.

But also saw the Who play a 2 hour Tommy set, take a 10-15 minute break, then another 2 hour regular concert.

Roger Daltrey was on CNN (Saturday night) a few weeks ago. He was interviewed by Bill Maher.

I guess there is still a rift between him and Townsend.

Cincinnati 1978, wah.. That sent shock waves. Keith Moon's death changed them forever. Then Townsend's Pedophilia charges!!!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The coaching staff looks great how? You always post some sugarcoated, likes - begging posts, nothing to do with reality. Alfie is learning the ropes, which is fine under a seasoned and successful coach. But not under Green, who is a worst under .500 walking disaster in NHL. And then Baumgartner who? Yeo is fired - too many times - recycled mediocrity. Ben Sexton as any kind of a coach is a joke. Has to coach first at least a peewee hockey team.

just a rainbows and unicorns kind of guy. Its a rep I have worked hard at

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Given the state of coaching in the NHL lately it seems most are 'burning out' in a season or two regardless of style.

State of the game. Hockey is filled with coddled rich boys these days. Need to give them plenty of treats and cuddles to keep them interested.

 

[coladin]

Roger Daltrey was on CNN (Saturday night) a few weeks ago. He was interviewed by Bill Maher.

I guess there is still a rift between him and Townsend.

Cincinnati 1978, wah.. That sent shock waves. Keith Moon's death changed them forever. Then Townsend's Pedophilia charges!!!

Cincinnati was after Keith Moon, in 1979.

They always play that rift card, but there truly isn't any rift and really, they have been playing together since 1963.

The pedo charges were dropped

Anyways, someone earlier mentioned Boucher 2.0. Travis Green is considered a player's coach, not a teacher or taskmaster like Boucher, who could never relate to his players

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

After Green I bet Daniel Alfredsson will be the next Ottawa Senators head coach.

Already looking forward to it.