Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[BondraTime]

Nothing official on the website (BTW they still have capuano and Alfie listed as assistants) , but that's good to know!

I'd think there will be a major overhaul come July, Boyd was put in place by Dorion, and with the draft happening now and all the scouting being done throughout the year it wouldn't make much sense to overhaul that department until after the draft.

I'd expect to see 3/4 hires over the summer, and I'd be surprised if a head scout isn't one of them.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Thanks for sharing. Just listened to it.

There’s a few points I noted from Mendes from this interview. If you look at Berube’s, Deboer’s & Tochets record in their first 250 games, they were below a .500 win percentage.

The other less notable yet relatively interesting/relevant point he mentioned was the idea of “culture change” which meant pushing the players harder to achieve more which will start in training camp.

I get (Mendes mentioned this as well) the emotional reaction from Senator fans. But, I do think you a good analysis includes digging beneath the surface to explain what was happening that can or could explain the numbers.

All of this = FWIW.

I don't understand how most of the arguments against Green stem down to "I looked at HockeyDB and his record sucks, now I'm scared that I will never get to enjoy hockey again", but Berube also has an underwhelming record short of one outlier. Outside of the Blues cup run, he only has 1 playoff series win his entire career, and he has missed the playoffs 3 out of 7 times.

My point isn't that HockeyDB scouting coaches is an actual educated argument, my point is that I think it is funny that one guys bad hockeyDB record is a checkmate, where as the guy who everybody wants also has a bad one short of one outlier season.

 

[BondraTime]

The 3.5 million Berube wanted to make up is his salary he'd be foregoing by signing, he's owed 3.5 from the Blues next year if he doesn't sign anywhere. He's just looking to have that made up on top of his actual salary, the way it's worded in that quote is very poor.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I think the way this was worded is slightly misleading.

Friedman said Green was hard on Quinn Hughes and Pettersson and really grinded them, and was talking about how tough he can be. Then he was saying he wondered if because Keith played with Green, it was like they know the guy and this would work for us.

He didn’t really wonder if Brady had a huge role, moreso if the connection there assured them there wouldn’t be any issue.

I doubt Brady calls the shots. It's all Chantelle.

 

[Beech]

we spent 2015-2023 debating Ottawa senators financials.

We came to know that the debt was possibly in excess of 400 million.
in 2019 Forbes published a findings showing them at 127 M revenue,, The CAP was around 80 M, suggesting "an Average team" is 160 M in revenue!!!

Now the Euge was public enemy #1, so fans shyed away.. So the 127 M, would have been/could have been/should have been 150M... meaning a 10 M loss, if everything operated at "average levels".

so now 2023/2024.. revenue has crept up. Suggesting the Sens are or should have been 170 M.. But we know fans stayed away, suggesting 150 M... The team spent 90 M on player salary, still needed to spend some 80 M on operations.. making expenditures 170 M.. or about 20 M in loses.

20 M in loses and we want to pay a head coach 3-4 M in salary, possibly acquiescing to his demands of taking care of his assistants and so another 2 M.. 5-6 M in coaches. When at 2 M in coaches, they lost 20 M.

I guess old Michael would not worry all much about 25-26 M in loses, versus 20.. Heck at that amount, what is an extra million or two.

You figure Michael's banker was Eugen's? You think he retained the same CFO???

 

[PlayOn]

I doubt Brady calls the shots. It's all Chantelle.

Agreed. I saw that in a commercial once

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

For people who give me crap for asking the #BigQuestions about whether Green and the Tkachuks were friendly due to their past together:



"Friedman wondered if Brady Tkachuk had a big say in who the new coach was, which was Travis Green"

So I guess Friedman has Sens PTSD too. Poor guy.

Obviously, speculation vs reporting has to be distinguished, but Friedman is a smart and careful guy. He doesn't openly "wonder" about things that aren't safe for him to wonder about.

I listened to this podcast this morning and both points have been misconstrued. Terrible tweet spreading bullshit.

 

[Micklebot]

That tweet in the post above. Not sure if that's actually what Friedman said though.

Just saw that. Seems odd because typically they would negotiate the difference to be picked up by the old team, I know for example LA was saying they wouldn't be willing to pick up the majority of McLellans remaining del but they'd still pick up part of it.

So if we were only paying 3 mil, StL would be on the hook for the remaining .5, for example.

Seems like there's some missing details there.

 

[Micklebot]

I listened to this podcast this morning and both points have been misconstrued. Terrible tweet spreading bullshit.

Can you elaborate on what they actually meant?

Is this the podcast from a couple days ago when they originally discussed the green hire? If so, no mention of beubes ask was made

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Keep in mind that coach candidates need to consider whether they'll have success here or not. Their record is their CV. How many Ottawa Senators head coaches went on to head coaching jobs afterwards?

Now, it might be a chicken-or-the-egg scenario, we are a small market so we don't tend to hire coaches with as much talent.

But if I were Berube, I would certainly ask for the Senators to make it worth my while before I tied myself to what might be a losing cause.

Berube's price tag was undoubtedly higher... and that may have been a factor for the Sens.. but I think Berube wants a team that is already a playoff team or one that by his estimation is ready to be now. We are quick to jump at the evidence we get through a slit in the fence.

On the subject mentioned above, there is some logic to this. Berube could want more from a team he had less confidence in, so the reward had to be commensurate with the risk involved. The short summary is - Ottawa’s pay package would have to be a fair bit higher to be tempting.

 

[PlayOn]

Can you elaborate on what they actually meant?

Is this the podcast from a couple days ago when they originally discussed the green hire? If so, no mention of beubes ask was made

It’s from today.

No amount was mentioned from what I can remember. He just said Berube was getting paid a certain amount by the Blues and he can afford to wait it out, because they’d be paying him next year anyway. He also said he didn’t think Ottawa was being cheap, they just didn’t want to meet his ask. And then said he believes they also knew they weren’t his first choice and that’s important.

 

[Micklebot]

It’s from today.

No amount was mentioned from what I can remember. He just said Berube was getting paid a certain amount by the Blues and he can afford to wait it out, because they’d be paying him next year anyway. He also said he didn’t think Ottawa was being cheap, they just didn’t want to meet his ask. And then said he believes they also knew they weren’t his first choice and that’s important.

That's wildly different than the tweet, thanks. I'll have to find that podcast and have a listen

 

[BondraTime]

Can you elaborate on what they actually meant?

Is this the podcast from a couple days ago when they originally discussed the green hire? If so, no mention of beubes ask was made

He is owed 3.5 million by the Blues for 2024-25. He wanted that made up, the amount he'd be foregoing by signing, and the Sens were not even a team he wanted to really go to. We never balked at a 3.5 million contract, as was posted

The misconstrued stuff being posted by fans on twitter is awful

 

[Micklebot]

He is owed 3.5 million by the Blues for 2024-25. He wanted that made up, the amount he'd be foregoing by signing.

The misconstrued stuff being posted by fans on twitter is awful

So... He wanted whatever negotiated salary they agreed to, plus an additional 3.5 on top of that as a signing bonus to make up for the year he'd have been paid to not work?

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Can you elaborate on what they actually meant?

Is this the podcast from a couple days ago when they originally discussed the green hire? If so, no mention of beubes ask was made

This was from a podcast that was released this morning.

This is the transcript generated by Apple Podcasts

“
“I think they had extended conversations with Craig Barube. We talked about it on your show the other day. I think there were two issues.

Number one, I don't think that Ottawa, and these are just conversations with other coaches, in the circles that it wasn't seen as Barube's number one choice. I think he felt there were other options that he thought were potentially better for him. I know there's a lot of talk in Ottawa about money.

And I don't think it's that simple. I think that Barube is basically, Barube signed a contract in St. Louis that he's still under. And he feels that that is his worth.

And he can afford to be a pick and choose, because if there's anything he doesn't like, then he can just say, look, I'll wait for longer. He's being paid next year by the Blues, if he doesn't coach. So I think he can afford to be a little bit choosy.

I think he can afford to say, this is my number. And I don't think it's necessarily that the Senators are being cheap here, but I think they knew what the number was going to be. And I think they just felt that it wasn't where they wanted to go to.

Plus it was the fact that I think they sensed that they were not necessarily his number one choice. And I think that's important. And so they go to Green.”

From 32 Thoughts: The Podcast: Overtimes. Overtimes Everywhere., May 8, 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[BondraTime]

So... He wanted whatever negotiated salary they agreed to, plus an additional 3.5 on top of that as a signing bonus to make up for the year he'd have been paid to not work?

Whatever contract he got + what he was giving up, which was 3.5 million for 2024-25.

He can sit home for a year and collect his 3.5, I'd think he'd be looking to recoup as much as that as possible from whoever is signing him this offseason.

He isn't shooting for a 3.5 million contract, he knows he's the guy this offseason, that would be selling himself very short for what the top coach will get with half a dozen teams looking.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Thanks for sharing. Just listened to it.

There’s a few points I noted from Mendes from this interview. If you look at Berube’s, Deboer’s & Tochets record in their first 250 games, they were below a .500 win percentage.

The other less notable yet relatively interesting/relevant point he mentioned was the idea of “culture change” which meant pushing the players harder to achieve more which will start in training camp.

Remember, the above is what Mendes said.

I get (Mendes mentioned this as well) the emotional reaction from Senator fans. But, I do think a good analysis includes digging beneath the surface to explain what was happening that can or could explain the numbers.

All of this = FWIW.

Tocchet is an interesting example. I know a lot of Vancouver fans and they all grumbled hard at the hiring. They all were under the impression it was guaranteed to fail, and pointed at his poor record previously. We saw how that turned out.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Also regarding the bullshit about Tkachuk choosing the coach.

This is exactly what Friedman said regarding that matter.

“I think the other thing here, too, is, and I always look for connections. Travis Green played with Keith Kachak in Arizona, and I kind of look at it and wonder, is there a little bit of Keith Kachak saying, I know this guy, and it works for us. You can't let the captain pick the coach, but you want to know that there's not going to be any preconceived problems.

And, you know, I just can't help but wonder. It's my opinion. I'm sure people will run wild with the conspiracy theories, but it's my opinion that Green and Kachak having a bit of a history can't be a bad thing here.”

 

[Beech]

Whatever contract he got + what he was giving up, which was 3.5 million for 2024-25.

He can sit home for a year and collect his 3.5, I'd think he'd be looking to recoup as much as that as possible from whoever is signing him this offseason.

He isn't shooting for a 3.5 million contract, he knows he's the guy this offseason, that would be selling himself very short for what the top coach will get with half a dozen teams looking.

is this not the quickest way to anger 32 ownership groups?

he will make more than the 3.5 and still wants that added? If 32 GMs talk to their owners, who then talk to other owners, is this not making a bee line to a black list?

 

[BondraTime]

is this not the quickest way to anger 32 ownership groups?

he will make more than the 3.5 and still wants that added? If 32 GMs talk to their owners, who then talk to other owners, is this not making a bee line to a black list?

It's just a way to put the pressure on the team looking to acquire your services.

If they want you, you will get paid. If they don't, you can go elsewhere, or sit and get 3.5

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Tocchet is an interesting example. I know a lot of Vancouver fans and they all grumbled hard at the hiring. They all were under the impression it was guaranteed to fail, and pointed at his poor record previously. We saw how that turned out.

I’m not going to pretend I know a lot about this subject. It seems rather apparent that the nuances of what constitutes a good coach versus a bad one is probably hard for casual observers to determine. We are not privy to the behind scenes information about what happens in the dressing room, in practices and on the bench.

But, common sense tells me at least some basic things. The first is that how well a team does depends on more than just one thing, namely the coaching. The players a team has is important and so is the GM, scouts and organization. All of these factor into success, or the lack of success.

A second thing is that frequently you have to dig a little deeper beyond the surface level to understand why something happened.

It does seem based on what Andlauer & Staois have said is there is a lot of work to be done. I don’t even really know what that means exactly as I’ve not heard that subject discussed in detail either. But, I’d guess there could be a disconnect between fan expectations and what the owner/GM thinks about how fast the Senators can generate significantly different results than what we’ve seen over the last 7 years.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Press conference moved to 2.

 

[redbrick98]

Press conference moved to 2.

Getting ready for those hard hitting questions

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I listened to this podcast this morning and both points have been misconstrued. Terrible tweet spreading bullshit.

I will listen later on, but I don't think it's fair for you to expect me to listen to a podcast and form my own opinion on the context of what is said instead of reposting a Tweet. I mean, maybe if I disagree with how the Tweet frames it.

Press conference moved to 2.

5mm of rain expected. Solid move, if nobody shows up they don't have to answer questions.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I’m not going to pretend I know a lot about this subject. It seems rather apparent that the nuances of what constitutes a good coach versus a bad one is probably hard for casual observers to determine. We are not privy to the behind scenes information about what happens in the dressing room, in practices and on the bench.

But, common sense tells me at least some basic things. The first is that how well a team does depends on more than just one thing, namely the coaching. The players a team has is important and so is the GM, scouts and organization. All of these factor into success, or the lack of success.

A second thing is that frequently you have to dig a little deeper beyond the surface level to understand why something happened.

It does seem based on what Andlauer & Staois have said is there is a lot of work to be done. I don’t even really know what that means exactly as I’ve not heard that subject discussed in detail either. But, I’d guess there could be a disconnect between fan expectations and what the owner/GM thinks about how fast the Senators can generate significantly different results than what we’ve seen over the last 7 years.

Ya, I don't get into it much either, I just think it's an interesting comparable. Tocchet was not a slam dunk hire by any means and has had a comparable coaching career to Green until this season. I just remember all the moaning and groaning like it was destined for failure, and it seems like that's all water under the bridge now. Could just as easily happen for Green, granted I don't expect that level of turn around.

I do think the move is made with a bit of an eye towards the future. They obviously aren't looking for someone to come in and turn things around immediately and contend. I think they're wise for that. The franchise is thin on assets and has had nothing but failure with this group so far, so it's going to take some time. It's also going to require a creative solution for Korpisalo. Season is already over if he's coming back for ~40 games imo.