News Article: Training camp starts. Camp discussion

[Drivesaitl]

Rattie played on stacked teams in junior and relied on his shooting ability. He was also never injured to the extent that Benson was.

So this means what? That Rattie is better? Rattie was the absolute straw that stirred the drink in Junior. you couldn't watch a game without noticing that guy. He was dominant, creative, could own games.
Give me some substance. Who as a player is Benson. What are his strengths? I'm not familiar with the player so I'm asking. All I have to go on is stats.

 

[nexttothemoon]

I very seldom disagree with you but where is this coming from? In comparison he figures somewhere below a Ty Rattie is my take. What am I not seeing?

He has size and skill and his skating is solid. He's always had talent but his injuries have held him back and that's what affected his draft rank as well.

I won't talk him up too much yet because I want to see more of him as well ... but watch him in camp and I'm betting he'll be one of the most impressive prospects for this team.

Skill+skating+size+determination will take you a hell of a long ways in the NHL.

I think only Bouchard (elite) and Yamamoto (near elite) are better in terms of their high end potential.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He has size and skill and his skating is solid. He's always had talent but his injuries have held him back and that's what affected his draft rank as well.

I won't talk him up too much yet because I want to see more of him as well ... but watch him in camp and I'm betting he'll be one of the most impressive prospects for this team.

Skill+skating+size+determination will take you a hell of a long ways in the NHL.

I think only Bouchard (elite) and Yamamoto (near elite) are better in terms of their high end potential.

Well, I've rarely seen the player and he didn't play one of the prospects games that I did see so all I got is Junior to go on and by no means was he even dominating at that level. Pretty ho hum statline from a Junior hockey perspective.

People are pumping this guy like he's going to make the club or something. Top year in Junior was what 68pts? I know he was injured a lot but was he the best looking guy in a hospital room?

I keep thinking there must have been some games somebody else saw that I didn't, thus I'm asking. Whats he known for. Any particular tournament or something where he was lights out? I don't have the background.

 

[LaGu]

So this means what? That Rattie is better? Rattie was the absolute straw that stirred the drink in Junior. you couldn't watch a game without noticing that guy. He was dominant, creative, could own games.
Give me some substance. Who as a player is Benson. What are his strengths? I'm not familiar with the player so I'm asking. All I have to go on is stats.

I think your description of Rattie is valid for Benson as well, and then some to be honest. Problem was when he started getting injured, a lot. Tough thing to get over at that age when you are in the age of full development-mode (don't know how to express that in english, sorry, meaning when a person develops at the fastest rate).

I think he has a good chance of getting a look with the big boys actually. But generally this year it should be mostly AHL for him. I always like player with a good hockey iq (what-ever that means), someone who does not have to rely on speed, strenght or other physical attributes.

 

[joestevens29]

Leon apparently lighter/leaner according to Chiarelli ("little more giddy up")

Interesting

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think your description of Rattie is valid for Benson as well, and then some to be honest. Problem was when he started getting injured, a lot. Tough thing to get over at that age when you are in the age of full development-mode (don't know how to express that in english, sorry, meaning when a person develops at the fastest rate).

I think he has a good chance of getting a look with the big boys actually. But this year it'll be mostly AHL for him

Rattie in junior was twice as good a player as Benson statistically. I mean Benson ONCE even hit 20 goals. Ratties high was 58goals one season and 121pts. Benson topped out at half of that.

I mean it would seem I'm giving Benson immense favors even making the comparison. I don't do it errantly either. There is a tendency to drastically inflate young prospects. The reality check of how hard the NHL is is that an allstar Ty Rattie, head and shoulders better than Benson at every level, has a tough time making it.

I agree with injuries. But most Junior players that suffer recurring injury problems already in junior, and that are not dominant at that level to begin with, seldom end up in the show. People can cite examples or try.
Is there a period of time where Benson was much better than his statline is indicating?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oh, found it myself.

Apparently Tyler Benson was considered a young phenom prior to Junior. Didn't really know that. I guess that's where the lofty expectations came from.

Time for Tyler Benson to turn the page on a star-crossed junior career

"For all the spectacular promise the Edmonton native had shown as a young phenom with South Side Athletic Club ripping up local development leagues, setback after setback at the junior level was taking a toll."

Trouble for Benson is he stopped being spectacular a long time ago.

 

[joestevens29]

So this means what? That Rattie is better? Rattie was the absolute straw that stirred the drink in Junior. you couldn't watch a game without noticing that guy. He was dominant, creative, could own games.
Give me some substance. Who as a player is Benson. What are his strengths? I'm not familiar with the player so I'm asking. All I have to go on is stats.

Yakupov Nail.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Oh, found it myself.

Apparently Tyler Benson was considered a young phenom prior to Junior. Didn't really know that. I guess that's where the lofty expectations came from.

Time for Tyler Benson to turn the page on a star-crossed junior career

"For all the spectacular promise the Edmonton native had shown as a young phenom with South Side Athletic Club ripping up local development leagues, setback after setback at the junior level was taking a toll."

Trouble for Benson is he stopped being spectacular a long time ago.

He stopped being healthy a long time ago. He’s been dogged by injury for 3/4 years now. If he’s truly 100% healthy and over his chronic hip/pelvis issue, he absolutely has top six potential.

 

[McShogun99]

Benson was given the option to start Jr a year early but turned it down. Up until he started getting injured he was considered a potential, high 1st round pick. His injuries derailed a lot of the hype and he lost some very important development years but there is a very good player there if he can stay injury free. He’ll have an NHL career but who knows if it will be as a 1st line winger or a 3rd line winger.

 

[trent_vinyl]

I very seldom disagree with you but where is this coming from? In comparison he figures somewhere below a Ty Rattie is my take. What am I not seeing?

I agree. Some guys on these boards are leaning way too far in the prospect direction. We have some decent ones for a change, but lets not get crazy here.

 

[PuckNut]

 

[Drivesaitl]

He stopped being healthy a long time ago. He’s been dogged by injury for 3/4 years now. If he’s truly 100% healthy and over his chronic hip/pelvis issue, he absolutely has top six potential.

On what basis? Again he was healthy 90% of last season and had really unspectacular numbers. Something like 56th in WHL pts. That wouldn't buy you a coffee at NHL level let alone a topsix assignment.

Frankly if a guy that had trouble finishing even in WHL ends up on our topsix that just says how bad our topsix depth is.

 

[Spawn]

Rattie in junior was twice as good a player as Benson statistically. I mean Benson ONCE even hit 20 goals. Ratties high was 58goals one season and 121pts. Benson topped out at half of that.

I mean it would seem I'm giving Benson immense favors even making the comparison. I don't do it errantly either. There is a tendency to drastically inflate young prospects. The reality check of how hard the NHL is is that an allstar Ty Rattie, head and shoulders better than Benson at every level, has a tough time making it.

I agree with injuries. But most Junior players that suffer recurring injury problems already in junior, and that are not dominant at that level to begin with, seldom end up in the show. People can cite examples or try.
Is there a period of time where Benson was much better than his statline is indicating?

To be fair, when you say "every level" you really mean juniors. That's the only competitive level that they've both played in.

I think the thing with Benson is he hasn't had an opportunity yet to show whether he can play a pro style of game that will be successful. Up until the final ~20 games of last year Ty Rattie had sort of proven he couldn't cut it at the NHL level. Luckily for him he's gotten a new lease on life because of the opportunity he had with McDavid when Connor was playing at a near 2 PPG rate.

I'm kind of skeptical about Benson too though tbh. I've seen too many good junior players in this organization turn pro and just completely fall off the map. Unless we're talking legit blue chip A+++ prospect, none of these guys mean anything until they can start to at least contribute at the AHL level. Right now Benson... he's not in the conversation as anything meaningful. At least for me.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

That last tweet is EXCELLENT news, imo.

 

[Drivesaitl]

To be fair, when you say "every level" you really mean juniors. That's the only competitive level that they've both played in.

I think the thing with Benson is he hasn't had an opportunity yet to show whether he can play a pro style of game that will be successful. Up until the final ~20 games of last year Ty Rattie had sort of proven he couldn't cut it at the NHL level. Luckily for him he's gotten a new lease on life because of the opportunity he had with McDavid when Connor was playing at a near 2 PPG rate.

I'm kind of skeptical about Benson too though tbh. I've seen too many good junior players in this organization turn pro and just completely fall off the map. Unless we're talking legit blue chip A+++ prospect, none of these guys mean anything until they can start to at least contribute at the AHL level. Right now Benson... he's not in the conversation as anything meaningful. At least for me.

Exactly.

But Staples and others wrote some real puff pieces on the kids potential and it seems that's most of what this evaluation is based on.

Like I say Caleb Jones has stood out. Nobody else really did to any close degree.

 

[TheRebuild]

On what basis? Again he was healthy 90% of last season and had really unspectacular numbers. Something like 56th in WHL pts. That wouldn't buy you a coffee at NHL level let alone a topsix assignment.

Frankly if a guy that had trouble finishing even in WHL ends up on our topsix that just says how bad our topsix depth is.

I don't really get it either. His ceiling looks like, maybe Pitlick to me (like maybe a 10 goal guy). But I've been told he's amazing, so I'm sure it'll bore out that way.

 

[Senor Catface]

That last tweet is EXCELLENT news, imo.

I think that could be an interesting line.

People talk about Pulji and Drai being a must, but I don't agree.

I think getting Jesse away from Lucic is really the must.

 

[PumpkinBombX]

Rattie in junior was twice as good a player as Benson statistically. I mean Benson ONCE even hit 20 goals. Ratties high was 58goals one season and 121pts. Benson topped out at half of that.

I mean it would seem I'm giving Benson immense favors even making the comparison. I don't do it errantly either. There is a tendency to drastically inflate young prospects. The reality check of how hard the NHL is is that an allstar Ty Rattie, head and shoulders better than Benson at every level, has a tough time making it.

I agree with injuries. But most Junior players that suffer recurring injury problems already in junior, and that are not dominant at that level to begin with, seldom end up in the show. People can cite examples or try.
Is there a period of time where Benson was much better than his statline is indicating?

This isn't a good look. Please stop. As someone who's seen them both play extensively since bantam Benson passed the eye test much more than Rattie did in Junior. I would put Benson more in the realm of Barzal, especially when he was healthy. Benson is an elite play maker, Rattie played as an opportunistic goal scorer like Mark Stone did in Junior. Rattie had skating issues and an attitude where he didn't want to work on his skating, and thats what kept him out of the NHL until about a year and a half ago really started to work on parts of his game. Now Rattie looks good. One thing i did like about him in Junior was he was always hard on the puck, which helps him out now that he's got more speed in his game and a drive to compete.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Koskinen, age 30, seems mature, thoughtful, but seemed a bit defensive about the KHL question at the end. Calm guy though, its what you need in net.

One thing I didn't like is him saying "NHL, not much difference" Um, wait to you start facing some NHL 40 goal scorers. Shit gets different in a hurry.

 

[McIce Whole]

So this means what? That Rattie is better? Rattie was the absolute straw that stirred the drink in Junior. you couldn't watch a game without noticing that guy. He was dominant, creative, could own games.
Give me some substance. Who as a player is Benson. What are his strengths? I'm not familiar with the player so I'm asking. All I have to go on is stats.

Benson put up stupid good numbers leading up to juniors. In fact, he broke Rattie’s record for most points in a single season at SSAC.

Benson was on a stacked team and I remember watching him play on a stacked team and played against some insanely talented players. D.Quenneville (same team), Clague, Steel. But like Rattie, Benson was the straw that stirred the drink on his team.

Steel and Benson were literally neck and neck in minor hockey, Benson had the advantage of playing on a better team but in terms of talent, there wasn’t much separation. Even till this day, I don’t think a whole lot separates the two, just that Steele has more development under his wing due to injuries Benson has had.

That’s the little history on Benson and why people are high on his potential but his play throughout camp so far has warranted it, he’s been very good imo

 

[ChaoticOrange]

On what basis? Again he was healthy 90% of last season and had really unspectacular numbers. Something like 56th in WHL pts. That wouldn't buy you a coffee at NHL level let alone a topsix assignment.

Frankly if a guy that had trouble finishing even in WHL ends up on our topsix that just says how bad our topsix depth is.

Based on the fact that he’s a very good player with first round talent that had to spend most of his summers recovering instead of training.

You know he had very little help in Vancouver, right? They had two players over 20 goals. In the WHL. That’s pathetic. How pathetic? The horrendous Oil Kings had three. Four if you include Koch.

Barzal’s last year in junior he had ten goals in 41 games. You never know how finishing ability will translate.

 

[frag2]

On what basis? Again he was healthy 90% of last season and had really unspectacular numbers. Something like 56th in WHL pts. That wouldn't buy you a coffee at NHL level let alone a topsix assignment.

Frankly if a guy that had trouble finishing even in WHL ends up on our topsix that just says how bad our topsix depth is.

Why does it sound like you 'want' Benson to not do well? Maybe I'm just overthinking your post but it's like you hope he doesn't do well so your point is vindicated

 

[Drivesaitl]

Why does it sound like you 'want' Benson to not do well? Maybe I'm just overthinking your post but it's like you hope he doesn't do well so your point is vindicated

Seriously? Because I'm looking for actual pointers on why people were so high on a prospect that has decidedly lukewarm junior stats? I was just asking. I had not known Benson was considered a bantam phenom until I read the Staples piece that I posted. Since then a couple other posters have chimed in on Benson being a phenom in Bantam. Good but that was several years ago, just saying. Injuries usually end up leaving even promising players far behind.

I do get nervous with the injury history and with the player being non stellar for several years running.