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Buffalo Bills Training Camp - July 16 (rookies), July 23 (veterans)

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Der Jaeger

Der Jaeger

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Husko said:
I think some of the things you’re describing aren’t even competitions, given the guaranteed money at play. Absent atrocious camps, I see Hollins and MVS as locks to make the team. The competitions are:

-Shorter vs Shavers for a special teams receiver role
-Claypool, Isabella, and other players at different positions for the pack couple of spots on the team


Did they “go to great lengths” to keep him? Didn’t they just throw him on IR?
Click to expand...
I watched the Bills do the same thing with AJ Ofodile in 1994. He went to the PUP with a minor injury that they nursed all season.

Teams don’t just put players on IR. There’s medical paperwork which gets filed with the player’s association. To “stash” a player in IR isn’t easy. They only do it for players they want to keep and, in today’s NFL, don’t want taken off the practice squad.

Shorter wasn’t on IR all year for a hamstring.
 
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Jim Bob

Jim Bob

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Husko said:
I think some of the things you’re describing aren’t even competitions, given the guaranteed money at play. Absent atrocious camps, I see Hollins and MVS as locks to make the team. The competitions are:

-Shorter vs Shavers for a special teams receiver role
-Claypool, Isabella, and other players at different positions for the pack couple of spots on the team


Did they “go to great lengths” to keep him? Didn’t they just throw him on IR?
Click to expand...
Yeah, placing him on IR and keeping him around and not practicing was not moving heaven and earth to keep him a part of the team.
 
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Der Jaeger

Der Jaeger

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Jim Bob said:
Yeah, placing him on IR and keeping him around and not practicing was not moving heaven and earth to keep him a part of the team.
Click to expand...
Here's how it works putting someone on IR:

- Doctor says player is hurt with some ailment
- Player agrees or asks for a second opinion
- Team reviews medical records and makes a decision on treatment and way forward.
- Paperwork is submitted by the team to the NFL offices putting the player on IR
- The player's association gets that paperwork to review the contract, bonuses, what won't be paid to the player due to being put on IR, and review the medical recommendations in the event the player and team differ in opinion.

If the player's association disagrees with the move due to the ailment or contract details, they go back to the league and the team to dispute the move. Some recent examples of that:
- Bills put Nyheim Hones on IR and looked to recoup money against the cap. Which was not possible and they were not allowed due to a league and player's association review
- Bills received permission to pay Damar Hamlin full salary despite the CBA stating that the Bills were not liable for Hamlin's full pay. Both the NFL and player's association had to review and approve that request (no brainer, but shows the process).

Another team can also dispute a player being put on IR. Especially if they think that player isn't really hurt to the degree the team is saying. and the team is avoiding putting the player on the active roster or the practice squad.

It's not "moving heaven and earth." I never said that. They did have to go to great lengths to make sure that whatever they did with Shorter wasn't perceived as violating league rules or caused another team to wonder why a 5th round pick was on IR for an entire year with a hamstring. Cheating to a degee? Sure. Every team does it and they have to make sure their paperwork is tight and the team doctors are lock step. Also, the player has to go along.

Any misstep in this process, and the team risks losing a draft pick.

Do I think Shorter is a lock for the roster? No. But do I see him as an outsider after the team did a lot of work to prevent him from being on the practice squad? Yes.
 
Jim Bob

Jim Bob

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Der Jaeger said:
Here's how it works putting someone on IR:

- Doctor says player is hurt with some ailment
- Player agrees or asks for a second opinion
- Team reviews medical records and makes a decision on treatment and way forward.
- Paperwork is submitted by the team to the NFL offices putting the player on IR
- The player's association gets that paperwork to review the contract, bonuses, what won't be paid to the player due to being put on IR, and review the medical recommendations in the event the player and team differ in opinion.

If the player's association disagrees with the move due to the ailment or contract details, they go back to the league and the team to dispute the move. Some recent examples of that:
- Bills put Nyheim Hones on IR and looked to recoup money against the cap. Which was not possible and they were not allowed due to a league and player's association review
- Bills received permission to pay Damar Hamlin full salary despite the CBA stating that the Bills were not liable for Hamlin's full pay. Both the NFL and player's association had to review and approve that request (no brainer, but shows the process).

Another team can also dispute a player being put on IR. Especially if they think that player isn't really hurt to the degree the team is saying. and the team is avoiding putting the player on the active roster or the practice squad.

It's not "moving heaven and earth." I never said that. They did have to go to great lengths to make sure that whatever they did with Shorter wasn't perceived as violating league rules or caused another team to wonder why a 5th round pick was on IR for an entire year with a hamstring. Cheating to a degee? Sure. Every team does it and they have to make sure their paperwork is tight and the team doctors are lock step. Also, the player has to go along.

Any misstep in this process, and the team risks losing a draft pick.

Do I think Shorter is a lock for the roster? No. But do I see him as an outsider after the team did a lot of work to prevent him from being on the practice squad? Yes.
Click to expand...
You are guessing about that part. We have no idea what the extent of the hamstring injury was. If he had a significant hamstring tear, then the initial placement on IR was not likely to get challenged.

And what team is going to complain about the Bills not clearing him once they opened up his practice window late in the season?
 
Der Jaeger

Der Jaeger

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Jim Bob said:
You are guessing about that part. We have no idea what the extent of the hamstring injury was. If he had a significant hamstring tear, then the initial placement on IR was not likely to get challenged.

And what team is going to complain about the Bills not clearing him once they opened up his practice window late in the season?
Click to expand...
You're right, I am guessing. But it's based off what I saw the team do with AJ Ofodile. All teams do it.

Teams are constantly looking for players late in the season. If Shorter was cleared to play and put on the PS, he was going to get claimed.

Either it was the worst grade 2 hamstring injury ever or a grade 3 which saw him running way sooner than the recovery window and without surgery.
 
Der Jaeger

Der Jaeger

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Jim Bob said:
touchdownwire.usatoday.com

Talking Bills and watching tape with Josh Allen

In an exclusive interview with USA Today’s Doug Farrar, Bills quarterback Josh Allen described his favorite plays from 2023, and looked forward to the 2024 season.
touchdownwire.usatoday.com touchdownwire.usatoday.com

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795774942501560351

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795775750752407911
Click to expand...
I suspect that Allen is talking about going from a E-P offense to a HT/VT morphed offense. Daboll and Dorsey were E-P guys. Brady is a Sean Payton guy, and he's coached HT and VT, so he's probably bringing in a lot of new stuff.

It's also why we saw the report earlier in the week about short passing. That's the HT concepts.
 
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Der Jaeger

Der Jaeger

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SundherDome said:
I love how South Carolina gets one absolute monster each draft class and then proceeds to waste em.
Click to expand...
It’s an annual thing. That kid isn’t the first player like that at SC.

Unless you’ve lived in Texas or SEC country for a while ( I have since 2014 and 4 years before that) you don’t know how insane football is. The NY State high school champion at the highest level might not win one game playing a season in SC, Georgia, Florida, Texas, or southern Virginia.

These types of athletes are manufactured. School districts are formed for football. Jr High schools have more well funded programs than some colleges.

That kid isn’t an anomaly. Go see what was written about Jadavion Clowney coming out of SC high schools and into South Carolina.
 
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K8fool

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Cant find quote , apologies. Thad brown tool says kair elam doesnt fit bills defense because he's 6'1 Unreal. Like they didn't know they needed patience c'mon. They drafted bishop , is he wrong too? Unreal. Beane and McD are idiots and thad ( is that a name) is smarter? Funny.
I believe the transition in philosophy started w terrel Bernard and continues w big playing smaller but fast like milano and bernard both undersized small playing bigger ( opposite but similar sea change)
I may too lazy to echo their evolving philosophy but i suggest the bills staff knows exactly what they are attempting and it has a longer learning curve w higher reward
 
Jim Bob

Jim Bob

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K8fool said:
Cant find quote , apologies. Thad brown tool says kair elam doesnt fit bills defense because he's 6'1 Unreal. Like they didn't know they needed patience c'mon. They drafted bishop , is he wrong too? Unreal. Beane and McD are idiots and thad ( is that a name) is smarter? Funny.
I believe the transition in philosophy started w terrel Bernard and continues w big playing smaller but fast like milano and bernard both undersized small playing bigger ( opposite but similar sea change)
I may too lazy to echo their evolving philosophy but i suggest the bills staff knows exactly what they are attempting and it has a longer learning curve w higher reward
Click to expand...
https://x.com/i/web/status/1795794109153628435

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795531478455194036

I think Thad took the comment about working with Taron Johnson in a really weird direction. Elam's tough fit with the Bills has never been that he is too tall.
 
SundherDome

SundherDome

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Der Jaeger said:
It’s an annual thing. That kid isn’t the first player like that at SC.

Unless you’ve lived in Texas or SEC country for a while ( I have since 2014 and 4 years before that) you don’t know how insane football is. The NY State high school champion at the highest level might not win one game playing a season in SC, Georgia, Florida, Texas, or southern Virginia.

These types of athletes are manufactured. School districts are formed for football. Jr High schools have more well funded programs than some colleges.

That kid isn’t an anomaly. Go see what was written about Jadavion Clowney coming out of SC high schools and into South Carolina.
Click to expand...
I agree, I did 10 years in Florida. The boutique schools that pop up for just football is wild. I was speaking more on South Carolina being a dog shit school for football yet every year, a SC native commits to them and is an absolute specimen.
 
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ValJamesDuex

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Stadium construction progressing well in Orchard Park​

 
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