Buffalo Bills Training Camp - July 16 (rookies), July 23 (veterans)

[Jim Bob]

Track fast vs game fast

It will be interesting to see how things play out on the field.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Track fast vs game fast

It will be interesting to see how things play out on the field.

I'd posted this earlier in the thread minus a link to the actual proof. Thanks for sharing.

He was also THE fastest at completing the Gauntlet drill, while Worthy for example was near the bottom.

Puka Nacua had similar results to Coleman in last year's testing (slow 40yd, good route speed).

I'm not a homer & I've said consistently that no WR pick at 28 (or 33) would have made me particularly happy because they all have negatives. But Coleman / Bills are getting too much hate from people who don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Jim Bob]

Some more interesting NextGen data from the combine for Coleman.

I'd posted this earlier in the thread minus a link to the actual proof. Thanks for sharing.

He was also THE fastest at completing the Gauntlet drill, while Worthy for example was near the bottom.

Puka Nacua had similar results to Coleman in last year's testing (slow 40yd, good route speed).

I'm not a homer & I've said consistently that no WR pick at 28 (or 33) would have made me particularly happy because they all have negatives. But Coleman / Bills are getting too much hate from people who don't know what they're talking about.

See my next post.



The fact that his speed on the Go route was similar to Troy Franklin was interesting, too.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[brian_griffin]

More good NFL-related news: Simms and Esiason's contracts not renewed by NFL on CBS.
The replacements for the stale, pale, and male hosts are JJ Watt and Matt Ryan.

I hated Simms and barely tolerated Esiason's commentary.

 

[Husko]

Reading up on Coleman more and I'm a bit disappointed in what I'm seeing re his yac skills. Seems like more of a Davis replacement/hopefully an upgrade due to his strength and 50-50 ball skills.

They have an interesting mix of skills at receiver. Coleman as their physical, deep ball threat. Samuel as their yac guy. And kincaid/Shakir as their route running specialists/ consistent chain movers. There's definitely some risk in their plan (can Coleman win vertically at the next level with below average speed? Can one of samuel or Shakir move outside and beat press coverage despite below average size?) But it's an intriguing mix that could be better than people expect if Beane bet on the right guys.

I think there may be some untapped potential for Coleman in the YAC arena. He was a good punt returner which suggests elusiveness and he did great in the gauntlet which suggests an ability to not slow down to make a catch. He was used very much as a deep receiver, so there may not have been a ton of opportunities for YAC in college.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think there may be some untapped potential for Coleman in the YAC arena. He was a good punt returner which suggests elusiveness and he did great in the gauntlet which suggests an ability to not slow down to make a catch. He was used very much as a deep receiver, so there may not have been a ton of opportunities for YAC in college.

One of the challenges with YAC with Allen will be the routes they run and the throws he makes. Due to him having a howitzer for a right arm, he will throw into tight windows and a lot of balls to the outside of the numbers and to the sideline. Those types of throws don't give the WRs a lot of opportunity to run after they catch it.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I think there may be some untapped potential for Coleman in the YAC arena. He was a good punt returner which suggests elusiveness and he did great in the gauntlet which suggests an ability to not slow down to make a catch. He was used very much as a deep receiver, so there may not have been a ton of opportunities for YAC in college.

RAC ability is something which is consistently mentioned in various scouting reports. Not to the extent of a guy like Malachi Corley - but it's there.

With your main offensive weapons being Kincaid, Knox, Cook, Coleman, Samuel & Shakir - the one common trait they all have one way or another is RAC ability.

You wonder what this offence is going to look like. It would be strange to not utilise Allen's arm/deep ball - but i wonder if that's exactly what they move away from?

 

[Zman5778]

I think there may be some untapped potential for Coleman in the YAC arena. He was a good punt returner which suggests elusiveness and he did great in the gauntlet which suggests an ability to not slow down to make a catch. He was used very much as a deep receiver, so there may not have been a ton of opportunities for YAC in college.

If one looks at some of Coleman's amazing catches....some of them are him bailing out his QB. As in, the balls were poorly thrown and he caught them anyways.

If Allen can hit Coleman in stride, he'll do just fine at YAC.....and if Allen screws up, Coleman has the talent to bail him out.

 

[Zman5778]

You wonder what this offence is going to look like. It would be strange to not utilise Allen's arm/deep ball - but i wonder if that's exactly what they move away from?

Lots of run and play action. Horizontal timing routes off play action and some deep routes sprinkled in.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

He must like the idea of playing for his college position coach...

 

[Digable5]

I already had Lewis listed as backup NB.

I see your point on Hamlin - but we know how much this team values character, locker room guys etc. He can still be a useful ST contributor too, which is something else they value.

Does Hamlin play ST? I want to say that he does not, and a big reason why I think his roster spot is in jeopardy. I would have liked another S late in the draft to compete with him but maybe we sign one of the veterans still on the market?

 

[missingmika]

Does Hamlin play ST? I want to say that he does not, and a big reason why I think his roster spot is in jeopardy. I would have liked another S late in the draft to compete with him but maybe we sign one of the veterans still on the market?

Best ST play of the season vs the Chiefs in the playoffs.

 

[Husko]

Does Hamlin play ST? I want to say that he does not, and a big reason why I think his roster spot is in jeopardy. I would have liked another S late in the draft to compete with him but maybe we sign one of the veterans still on the market?

I believe second half of the year he started playing a core role on ST

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Der Jaeger]

I wasn't initially a fan of the Coleman pick. I didn't see the fit with already having Knox and Kincaid operating in the middle of the field. At 33, I was down for Mitchell due to the size and speed despite some of my concerns.

After a weekend thinking about things, I had a small "ah-ha" moment. Brady's first two NFL jobs were with the Saints and Sean Payton. Payton designed a HT/VT hybrid offense around what Brees did well. So I decide to go back and look at those offenses.

Athletic TE (Shockey, then Graham), with larger X receiver who wasn't a burner (Colston, then Thomas). Admittedly, it was really Shockey/Graham with Colston, but that was the idea. Payton then surrounded those two with a fleet of fast receivers (Meachum, Henderson, Moore, Cooks, Stills, etc.). Maybe that's the idea with Kincaid/Knox and Coleman? It makes sense for me, but we'll see.

 

[Selanne00008]

I wasn't initially a fan of the Coleman pick. I didn't see the fit with already having Knox and Kincaid operating in the middle of the field. At 33, I was down for Mitchell due to the size and speed despite some of my concerns.

After a weekend thinking about things, I had a small "ah-ha" moment. Brady's first two NFL jobs were with the Saints and Sean Payton. Payton designed a HT/VT hybrid offense around what Brees did well. So I decide to go back and look at those offenses.

Athletic TE (Shockey, then Graham), with larger X receiver who wasn't a burner (Colston, then Thomas). Admittedly, it was really Shockey/Graham with Colston, but that was the idea. Payton then surrounded those two with a fleet of fast receivers (Meachum, Henderson, Moore, Cooks, Stills, etc.). Maybe that's the idea with Kincaid/Knox and Coleman? It makes sense for me, but we'll see.

I think a good question to ask is, if Coleman has a career like Colston's, are we happy?

I think so, especially based on most likely being more pass happy than even those Saints teams considering it's 2024 now.

Colston had 6 total 1K yard receiving years, peaking at 1,200 yards. 2 other seasons over 900 yards. If we are going to 'mix up the targets' a bit more as well and he's not a true #1 target hog, then even better.

 

[Husko]

One thing we should perhaps stop discounting when predicting the Bills first round pick is their heavy preference for young, high potential players. Since Beane arrived:

Player	Age when drafted
Allen	21
Edmunds	20
Oliver	21
Epenesa	21
Rousseau	21
Elam	20
Kincaid	23
Coleman	20

With Kincaid being the big exception, Beane definitely has a preference with his early picks. I wonder if McConkey, Legette, and some of the older receivers were even on their radar in the first.

I think a good question to ask is, if Coleman has a career like Colston's, are we happy?

I think so, especially based on most likely being more pass happy than even those Saints teams considering it's 2024 now.

Colston had 6 total 1K yard receiving years, peaking at 1,200 yards. 2 other seasons over 900 yards. If we are going to 'mix up the targets' a bit more as well and he's not a true #1 target hog, then even better.

700 receptions, 10,000 yards, 72 touchdowns, 100 catches 8 times and 1000 yards 6?

If anyone says no to that, big yikes.

 

[Selanne00008]

One thing we should perhaps stop discounting when predicting the Bills first round pick is their heavy preference for young, high potential players. Since Beane arrived:

Player	Age when drafted
Allen	21
Edmunds	20
Oliver	21
Epenesa	21
Rousseau	21
Elam	20
Kincaid	23
Coleman	20

With Kincaid being the big exception, Beane definitely has a preference with his early picks. I wonder if McConkey, Legette, and some of the older receivers were even on their radar in the first.


700 receptions, 10,000 yards, 72 touchdowns, 100 catches 8 times and 1000 yards 6?

If anyone says no to that, big yikes.

What can I say, my bar is high!!

Yes, if Coleman can work on his separation and route running nuances, he can really pop over the next couple of years. Being only 20 only means his ceiling could be higher.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I wasn't initially a fan of the Coleman pick. I didn't see the fit with already having Knox and Kincaid operating in the middle of the field. At 33, I was down for Mitchell due to the size and speed despite some of my concerns.

After a weekend thinking about things, I had a small "ah-ha" moment. Brady's first two NFL jobs were with the Saints and Sean Payton. Payton designed a HT/VT hybrid offense around what Brees did well. So I decide to go back and look at those offenses.

Athletic TE (Shockey, then Graham), with larger X receiver who wasn't a burner (Colston, then Thomas). Admittedly, it was really Shockey/Graham with Colston, but that was the idea. Payton then surrounded those two with a fleet of fast receivers (Meachum, Henderson, Moore, Cooks, Stills, etc.). Maybe that's the idea with Kincaid/Knox and Coleman? It makes sense for me, but we'll see.

Colston was the exact comp they had for him on the NFL Network coverage (Daniel Jeremiah / Charles Davis picked them). Don't know if you noticed that, were watching a different feed, or whatever.

I can't really comment since i was only just getting into the sport as Colston's career was finishing. Never really saw him play - just thought it was worth mentioning after reading your post.

 

[Dubi Doo]

One thing we should perhaps stop discounting when predicting the Bills first round pick is their heavy preference for young, high potential players. Since Beane arrived:

Player	Age when drafted
Allen	21
Edmunds	20
Oliver	21
Epenesa	21
Rousseau	21
Elam	20
Kincaid	23
Coleman	20

With Kincaid being the big exception, Beane definitely has a preference with his early picks. I wonder if McConkey, Legette, and some of the older receivers were even on their radar in the first.


700 receptions, 10,000 yards, 72 touchdowns, 100 catches 8 times and 1000 yards 6?

If anyone says no to that, big yikes.

I was just thinking- maybe they went for the WR they believe has the highest potential? Also, if they are going to bully teams- a big bodied WR who can play regular snaps + can bring an element we lost from Davis- makes sense.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Mahogany was one of the steals of the draft, maybe the biggest steal? But after getting Van Pran i don't think that pick would have been necessary.

I (like most others) thought a late round WR could have made sense. But that guy was never getting major reps or a big role (go back to our previous discussions on this) so it's almost moot.

I've made this point before in our previous debates - but i think Beane is higher on guys like Shorter/Hamler/Shavers than most of the fanbase is. That was basically proven to be true with their day 3 strategy.

At this point in the game, I think if Beane and company are higher on internal options, they've earned the benefit of the doubt. Last year all the worry was about MLB and the fact they didn't bring anyone in or use a high draft pick on a plug-and-play starter...turns out they knew they had Bernard ready to go.

 

[Zman5778]

Keon is a character and I am 100% here for it.