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GDT: Training Camp Discussion PART II

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Havoc said:
If you think North was a strong division we will agree to disagree. You can't convince me otherwise I can't convince you otherwise.
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I didn't even say North was a "strong" division. I, for one, don't like making statements on divisional strength with zero substantiation, like many others have in order to dismiss results they don't like.
 
We are one week away from a regular 82 game format with the old divisions, so we won't have tire pump the rest of the Canadian teams in order to legitimize our success - not that it ever needed to be qualified anyway.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
I didn't even say North was a "strong" division. I, for one, don't like making statements on divisional strength with zero substantiation, like many others have in order to dismiss results they don't like.
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You responded to a statement of ease of competition from hamza by stating that they have no claims to support that the North was easy competition. Everything said about divisions was within the context of the 6 teams Leafs had to face.

Let's end this here before we end up back to general divisions where we face Tampa every game.

For the record I think Leafs are a top 5 team next season. My views are solely about the North last year.
 
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Havoc said:
You responded to a statement of ease of competition from hamza by stating that they have no claims to support that the North was easy competition.
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I responded to a statement claiming that the less teams faced, the easier the schedule, and I already demonstrated the issue with such a claim. I responded to another statement attempting to dismiss an entire season's worth of results they didn't like, as a result of an unsubstantiated claim about the North's quality. I noted that there was nothing to support such a claim and nothing to justify the dismissal of results.
 
Dekes For Days said:
I responded to a statement claiming that the less teams faced, the easier the schedule, and I already demonstrated the issue with such a claim. I responded to another statement attempting to dismiss an entire season's worth of results they didn't like, as a result of an unsubstantiated claim about the North's quality. I noted that there was nothing to support such a claim and nothing to justify the dismissal of results.
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Sorry but deflecting the ACTUAL North with a counter example of only facing Tampa is a massive cop out. If you think that demonstrated anything I have nothing more to say here.
 
Havoc said:
Sorry but deflecting the ACTUAL North with a counter example of only facing Tampa is a massive cop out.
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The Tampa example was simply to demonstrate that you can't just say less teams = easier, which was the claim being made. I addressed the claim about the actual North's quality as well.
 
Dekes For Days said:
The Tampa example was simply to demonstrate that you can't just say less teams = easier, which was the claim being made. I addressed the claim about the actual North's quality as well.
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Well I guess the claim wouldn't have been made if fantasy divisions were allowed to be used. 32 team league. Slice it up realistically. You're a person that likes facts and logic yet resorts to extreme examples when you have nothing substantial to say to provide any counter claims of your own.

This isn't baseball where only one team makes it. Top 4, same division, all wins and losses stay in same division. Slice it up realistically and you see Leafs are in less danger than Atlantic life. I'm not claiming Leafs are going to have a hard time next season I'm only claiming it'll be harder than facing one division.

Anyways like I said an hour ago this stuff is pointless anyways with a new season coming up so we can agree to disagree and move on.

Edit-

And the funny thing is, nobody here would come back with an all Canadian division after realistically creating their custom divisions. It would be seen as rigging the league in favor of the Leafs.
 
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Havoc said:
Well I guess the claim wouldn't have been made if fantasy divisions were allowed to be used. 32 team league. Slice it up realistically. You're a person that likes facts and logic yet resorts to extreme examples when you have nothing substantial to say to provide any counter claims of your own. This isn't baseball where only one team makes it. Top 4, same division, all wins and losses stay in same division. Slice it up realistically and you see Leafs are in less danger than Atlantic life.
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The individual was literally talking about opponent variety of all sorts and sizes; suggesting this less teams = easier thing was some hardline rule that was, and I quote, "shockingly dumb" to disagree with. The Tampa example was intentionally extreme to highlight the issues with such a statement, and was separate from the discussion about the North. Number of teams has nothing to do with it. It's about quality, and I said exactly that. The issue here is that claims were made about the North's quality to dismiss results, when there is absolutely nothing to support such claims. We were not talking about danger of making/missing the playoffs, which seems to be what you're referencing. We were discussing how our team's regular season results (overall/offensively/defensively/etc.) were impacted by overall strength of schedule.

Going back to my original statement, our team is very good and in its competitive phase, our pipeline is healthy, and just like any other team in our position, we're going to utilize rentals and keep pending UFAs. That's not the disaster it was being represented as.
 
Havoc said:
Since you mentioned only size I'm assuming you're speaking about depth sandpaper guys ?

Bust rate is massive so you're looking at a likely case of spending a draft pick on the bust and also spending another draft pick for a Clifford at the deadline.

Dubas way is more efficient when you make the playoffs every season.
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And continually go out in the 1st round, the last one in epic fashion?
 
Dekes For Days said:
Our pipeline is healthy. We had drafted 27 times over the previous 3 drafts, and drafted well. We could afford to spend some picks, especially in a weak draft year. We've also offset our UFA losses with our always-forgotten UFA gains, and our team is stronger than ever.
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Yes, hopefully the genius of Dubas will soon translate into getting past the 1st round.
 
Stonehands1990 said:
You’re gonna be absolutely shocked when the teams defensive numbers dip playing against actual contenders
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I think people are mistaking quality teams, for quality offense. The North had some pretty special offensive talents, half of the top ten scoring leaders last year came from the North. The North outscored the rest of the league last year, in goals per team. Teams that the Leafs will play more this year, won't be more talented offensively than Edmonton, who they shut down pretty well. These might be better teams overall, but they won't be any more offensively talented. Despite playing in an offensive driven division, the Leafs were in the top quartile in goals against in the league.
 
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Getting near the end of camp, I’ve been impressed with all the off season signings.

Ritchie has shown scoring, passing toughness and a good net front presence. He does have underrated passing and hockey IQ. Excited to see him with Matthews. We all know Mitch is a great passer but your going to see plenty of assists for Ritchie on the box scores this season as well.

Kampf has been good defensively but has shown he can score more than he has in the past.

Kase has shown flashes and I’ve liked him, but I think he is still getting his speed/quickness/timing back after not playing for so long and can be even better.

Bunting has shown his scoring ability around the crease was not a flash in the pan last year. Could help draw a lot of penalties as well.

Mrazek has looked solid, he’s fun to watch too.
 
Shanwhatplan said:
It’s a fine line between being an actual Cup contender and thinking you are one. And that leads into what we have witnessed these last 5 years, keeping own rentals which walk away for nothing as opposed to acquiring draft picks and/or prospects, as well as trading away draft picks for pure rentals.
Unless you hit the jackpot and win the Cup or at least make it to the final four, it eventually comes back and bites you in the ass.
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It's extremely hard to justify to your team and potential free agents etc when you are in a playoff spot selling off pieces of your roster for future assets. I would understand if Toronto was in the hunt for the playoffs every year and didn't sell, but being firmly in the playoffs and subtracting for your roster just doesn't look good on your team.
 
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WinnieThePooh said:
A big shout out to all my homies in this thread that are actually looking forward to watching the Leafs and will be cheering for them.

Seems like most of this board is hoping they fail or already preparing themselves to fail. That's a loser's mentality.

Hanta Yo!
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Welcome to the board.

Unfortunately there are 8-10 posters/1 mod that cheer against the team in here. You'll get used to it and you'll be able to figure out who they are relatively quickly.

Go Leafs!
 
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zeke said:
Previous season's combined average points paces:

East 98
Central 90
West 89
North 89
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I think people are bias against offensive hockey. It's seen as less pure/good than defensive hockey. The North had an insane concentration of talent but because it was fast paced and not as tight checking, it gets labelled as bad. That's just wrong.

With that being said, it doesn't reflect well on us that Montreal was our playoff rep :(
 
WinnieThePooh said:
I think people are bias against offensive hockey. It's seen as less pure/good than defensive hockey. The North had an insane concentration of talent but because it was fast paced and not as tight checking, it gets labelled as bad. That's just wrong.

With that being said, it doesn't reflect well on us that Montreal was our playoff rep :(
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I dunno - getting to the cup final and comfortably beating Vegas along the way reflects pretty well imo.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
The Tampa example was simply to demonstrate that you can't just say less teams = easier, which was the claim being made. I addressed the claim about the actual North's quality as well.
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The counter argument is, what if that one team was Buffalo? Ottawa? etc

Advantages and disadvantages to more teams and less that you play in a year.

The fact is each team will play in the division they were assigned by the league and the schedule both regular season and playoffs are also set-out by the league. So this whole train of thought is rather pointless actually.
 
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