GDT: Training Camp Discussion PART II

[SprDaVE]

 

[Fogelhund]

Before we jump up and down here, Dermott is dealing with a small injury, so don't jump to conclusions on this. Nylander I guess is dealing with something too.

Good to see AM back.

 

[egd27]

THEY KILLED WILLY!

 

[Captain Crunch]

The thing with prospect pools are that they are also concerned with the long term. Your prospect pool is not supposed to have every player graduate each year.

Familiarize yourself with Topi Niemala, Veet Miettinen and Roni Hirvonen who all had strong years last year, two of which were playing in pro-leagues. Amirov is also a very strong prospect.

Yes, like any prospect, have your fingers crossed. They have done well, as did Mikko Lehtonen (sp) who was supposedly the top dman in whatever league it was that he was playing in. Aside from Rielly and Nylander, and the no-brainers of Matthews and Marner, who have we drafted that has made a significant difference to our depth? Kadri, who wasn’t able to not get suspended from the playoffs and was basically traded for Kerfoot, and Johnsson who had one good season but ended up being a cap casualty (hello Dubas and the “core”) and traded for peanuts, these are two off the top of my head.
So a prospect, no matter how much hype he comes with, is only proven when he shows he can do it in the NHL.

 

[Sypher04]

It has occurred in 4 of 5 seasons under Matty .. last year was different due to short COVID Canadian division etc .. and even then we could not handle Habs full speed in playoffs .. really truth is there is no reason to believe it won't happen again with same core

except it hasn’t and you are making shit up

 

[LeafParade]

Before we jump up and down here, Dermott is dealing with a small injury, so don't jump to conclusions on this. Nylander I guess is dealing with something too.

Good to see AM back.

So I can't assume if Nylander was playing he would take Kase's spot, and Kase would be moved to Simmonds' spot, and Simmonds would be moved to the press box?

 

[zeke]

SWEEEEEETTTT.


A few things i'm very happy to see here:

1. Sandin-Liljegren as a pairing. Both because that could end up as the best bottom pairing in hockey, but also because it's the first time we've seen dermott moved off the right side this camp. I don't want dermott pushed permanently out of the lineup but this here might be an indication that a true bottom pair rotation might be set up to start the year.

2. Kase and Kampf being split up. I like Kampf and all but I am VERY wary of him being not just our shutdown bottom 6 C but also paired with Kase - that would indicate a big minute two-way line role for Kampf and i don't think he can do that. Being paired with Simmonds and engvall looks much more like the 4th line role he can excel at.

3. Kase with Tavares. Not only does he deserve the chance there based on both skills and effort this camp, but remember that Nylander has no issue playing the left side, and this opens up the possibility of a Nylander-Tavares-Kase 2nd line, which would be pretty sweet. This would also free up Mikky to move alongside Kampf and Simmonds on the defensive grit line.

4. Kerfoot back at C...and with offensive wingers. This imo is clearly the 3rd line in this grouping, with engvall-kampf-Simmonds the 4th line - not that there would be a huge difference in minutes, just that the Kerfoot line would be the offensive 3A line and the Kampf line the defensive 3B line.

These moves could easily mean we will see something like this on opening night:

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Kase
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Mikheyev - Kampf - Simmonds/Engvall

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren/Dermott

which is kind of exactly what i wanted to see.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And by that logic those teams would be making, at the very least, incremental improvements each season, including playoffs. While at the same time, not depleting your number of draft picks, so that you can keep the pipeline going.

No, many of those teams do not advance any further in the playoffs, and only one team each year actually achieves the goal. But you do it, because there's no point to all of this if you refuse to give yourself a chance to win. Our losses from this are wildly overblown, and we've offset them well with UFA gains and good drafting; which is why we have a better team and pipeline than we have had at any point in our competitive era, despite it.

 

[SprDaVE]

Replace Amadio with Nylander

 

[LeafChief]

Yes, like any prospect, have your fingers crossed. They have done well, as did Mikko Lehtonen (sp) who was supposedly the top dman in whatever league it was that he was playing in. Aside from Rielly and Nylander, and the no-brainers of Matthews and Marner, who have we drafted that has made a significant difference to our depth? Kadri, who wasn’t able to not get suspended from the playoffs and was basically traded for Kerfoot, and Johnsson who had one good season but ended up being a cap casualty (hello Dubas and the “core”) and traded for peanuts, these are two off the top of my head.
So a prospect, no matter how much hype he comes with, is only proven when he shows he can do it in the NHL.

Yes - that is the same for any team. Hunter's drafts would be the drafts for later round picks to be showing dividends right now (as you mentioned - top 10 picks are going to make the league quickly whereas later round gems are going to take time).

Unfortunately, Hunter prioritized size over skill (size is important as long as there is skill as well) but none of those players seemed to have panned out. Korshkov being the worst miss of the bunch.

 

[Fogelhund]

So I can't assume if Nylander was playing he would take Kase's spot, and Kase would be moved to Simmonds' spot, and Simmonds would be moved to the press box?

Wouldn't that be nice.

 

[Sypher04]

Clearly Keefer has decided he can't go with 3 full offensive lines by his actions, his words are different, there is a depth issue with NHL quality centres and wingers .. D we have 3 decent defense (not enough) and tending is a WHO KNOWS for sure

you obviously have a grossly inflated idea of what the depth of our opposition looks like.

the leafs don’t have an issue of nhl quality depth at center for sure, and not really on the wings either. They have 3 very good defenseman and a couple solid, and couple young guys with considerable potential. Their goaltending is their biggest question mark, but is not downgraded from last year

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Replace Amadio with Nylander

Love those units... First time since we've lost Bozak and JVR that I'm happy with the initial looks of both our units lol

 

[SprDaVE]

SWEEEEEETTTT.


A few things i'm very happy to see here:

1. Sandin-Liljegren as a pairing. Both because that could end up as the best bottom pairing in hockey, but also because it's the first time we've seen dermott moved off the right side this camp. I don't want dermott pushed permanently out of the lineup but this here might be an indication that a true bottom pair rotation might be set up to start the year.

2. Kase and Kampf being split up. I like Kampf and all but I am VERY wary of him being not just our shutdown bottom 6 C but also paired with Kase - that would indicate a big minute two-way line role for Kampf and i don't think he can do that. Being paired with Simmonds and engvall looks much more like the 4th line role he can excel at.

3. Kase with Tavares. Not only does he deserve the chance there based on both skills and effort this camp, but remember that Nylander has no issue playing the left side, and this opens up the possibility of a Nylander-Tavares-Kase 2nd line, which would be pretty sweet. This would also free up Mikky to move alongside Kampf and Simmonds on the defensive grit line.

4. Kerfoot back at C...and with offensive wingers. This imo is clearly the 3rd line in this grouping, with engvall-kampf-Simmonds the 4th line - not that there would be a huge difference in minutes, just that the Kerfoot line would be the offensive 3A line and the Kampf line the defensive 3B line.

These moves could easily mean we will see something like this on opening night:

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Kase
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Mikheyev - Kampf - Simmonds/Engvall

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren/Dermott

which is kind of exactly what i wanted to see.

Only reason Kase is on the 2nd line is because Nylander is out for a week. When healthy, Kase will be with Kampf to start off. If anything, I see Bunting the one replacing Mikheyev if he fails.

With that said, this is what I see by the mid season (if healthy)

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Kase
Engvall - Kerfoot - Spezza
Simmonds (rotates with any of the bottom wingers)

Last 2 lines are very capable 3rd lines on any team in this league. You can shuffle them and give them ~12 minutes without any worry that they need a soft matchup.

 

[notbias]

I really think we may have the best forward depth in the NHL
What teams compete with us?

If they role this

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kampf - Kase

That is 2 first lines and 2 thirds

 

[stickty111]

Before we jump up and down here, Dermott is dealing with a small injury, so don't jump to conclusions on this. Nylander I guess is dealing with something too.

Good to see AM back.

Yeah I'm not going to get too excited yet, but at the same time, why is Dermott even practicing when he is hurt? He should still be at his regular spot when he is at practice. Muzzin was hurt too but he's back with Holl. Keefe's comments will give us an indication.

 

[VanW27]

Love those units... First time since we've lost Bozak and JVR that I'm happy with the initial looks of both our units lol

Yeah, the only issue is you really want a right shot in that point position if you're going to be using that set up.

Not a criticism of Rielly, just the optimal setup, if you had a right shot there every passing option off the setup would be to a player in one-timer/shooting position.

 

[zeke]

Only reason Kase is on the 2nd line is because Nylander is out for a week. When healthy, Kase will be with Kampf to start off. If anything, I see Bunting the one replacing Mikheyev if he fails.

If that were true, then why wouldn't Bunting get the look on the tavares line today instead of Kase?

 

[Magic Man]

It looks to me like Biega has cemented himself to open the season as the top call-up on defense and the clear cut #8 guy in the organization bettering Menell and Dahlstrom in pre-season.

Not overly surprising considering his ability to stay in the NHL for this long. He seemed like the teams back-up plan to getting a gritty defender that fans have been asking for. He starts in the AHL, but I'd be suprised if he doesn't see some time.

 

[zeke]

I really think we may have the best forward depth in the NHL
What teams compete with us?

If they role this

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kampf - Kase

That is 2 first lines and 2 thirds

It sure is nice that all of Ritchie, Kase, and Bunting have looked legit skilled this preseason, that's for sure. They don't loook like bargain basement fill ins. And the lineup looks suddenly deep with all 3 of them looking like quality middle 6 guys.

But still, let's wait and see on them before getting too confident, especially with Kase's health.

 

[SprDaVE]

If that were true, then why wouldn't Bunting get the look on the tavares line today instead of Kase?

I think TODAY, Mikheyev is getting his spot next to Nylander and Tavares. Maybe that changes over the season if he doesn't provide enough, or if the team needs a shuffle.

There's a chance Mikheyev provides Hyman level numbers and gets to cash in on his chances.

 

[-DeMo-]

So you knew in advance that they would lose in the first round? Interesting skillset.

I don't really understand your point? you stated we'd likely miss the playoffs had we sold Bozak/JVR, so you first stated an unknown outcome. my point was that since we now know the outcome of the season the worst thing that could have happened should we have sold those players is we missed the playoffs, and since we did actually make the playoffs and lost in the first round people still justified not moving those 2 because of the experience our core would have gained being that for a lot of them it was there first playoff series, however at this point that experience has in no way helped us. and it would be a stretch to say that 1 playoff series experience will have made the difference in the future should we finally get out of the first round.

 

[notbias]

It sure is nice that all of Ritchie, Kase, and Bunting have looked legit skilled this preseason, that's for sure. They don't loook like bargain basement fill ins. And the lineup looks suddenly deep with all 3 of them looking like quality middle 6 guys.

But still, let's wait and see on them before getting too confident, especially with Kase's health.

I am talking about on paper, I think Winnipeg is the closest probably.

Obviously, we need to wait and see what happens, I am asking very early opinions based on how the players have performed and how the roster is looking.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

I really think we may have the best forward depth in the NHL
What teams compete with us?

If they role this

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kampf - Kase

That is 2 first lines and 2 thirds

Oh my god! We don’t have a second line???
Thanks a lot Dubas.

 

[zeke]

I think TODAY, Mikheyev is getting his spot next to Nylander and Tavares. Maybe that changes over the season if he doesn't provide enough, or if the team needs a shuffle.

There's a chance Mikheyev provides Hyman level numbers and gets to cash in on his chances.

But if Bunting was the first option up on that line and Kase was welded to Kampf, then why wouldn't Bunting get the temporary looksee today instead of Kase?