Training Camp continued

[Nineteen67]

you think the odds of a top six player getting injured in the first 3 weeks of the season is low? I don't. I am not convinced we move Kerfoot though.

We may have injuries ourselves. Maybe Muzzin starts slow and gets 24 days of load management to deal with his lingering back? Maybe see that Holl has an injury? Murray?
Every year we worry about fitting everyone in and then four weeks later we four Marlies in the line up because of injuries. This will work itself out. If not, we waive Holl and bring in Liljgren. We keep Robertson as a call up when needed and we wait some more.

A contender sustaining an injury to a top 6 F that requires extended LTIR, yes.

In 24 days something has to give. We don’t know what that something is, but they have to prepare for all scenarios.

I would like to see Engvall get a chance on the left side of Tavares-Willy.

Tell him to do the dirty work.
I agree with an earlier post that mentions Tavares has done well with 2 big guys on either side of him.

Also adding my 2 cents. Robertson has put himself in a position to be the first call-up if we lose a winger in the top 9.
I think they will choose a different player to call up if we lose a 4th line player to injury.

Its worth a shot. He has the speed and is responsible in his own end, but couldn’t handle the puck in the playoffs last year so I’m not convinced he’d work.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander looks ready to thrive. Prefer not to sabotage that by putting a 3rd/4th liner on his other wing.

Sometimes the difference between a 3rd/4th liner, and a 2nd liner, is opportunity. It's a long season, a number of shifts together isn't going to sabotage the year. Even if you think the probability of success isn't very high, trying new things, that might work, could have a good payoff.

 

[conFABulator]

A contender sustaining an injury to a top 6 F that requires extended LTIR, yes.

It doesn't have to be a contender. Kerfoot is a good pickup for any team that can afford him...except for a tanking team I suppose.

He will have value at the TDL as well. Especially if retained.

 

[Nineteen67]

Sometimes the difference between a 3rd/4th liner, and a 2nd liner, is opportunity. It's a long season, a number of shifts together isn't going to sabotage the year. Even if you think the probability of success isn't very high, trying new things, that might work, could have a good payoff.

One of the question going in was who plays 2nd line wing? Malgin gets first crack.

 

[Fogelhund]

A contender sustaining an injury to a top 6 F that requires extended LTIR, yes.

In 24 days something has to give. We don’t know what that something is, but they have to prepare for all scenarios.


Its worth a shot. He has the speed and is responsible in his own end, but couldn’t handle the puck in the playoffs last year so I’m not convinced he’d work.

It's not as if we, the fans on HF board have to do anything, and I'm sure Dubas is aware of the situation, and his options. Right now we are kicking the can down the road, and while we don't hope for injuries, you never know what could happen. Maybe we kick the can down the road a little bit further later... who knows.

We likely are going to need to shed a few contracts as well at some point.

Before moving Kerfoot, we probably want to see how Malgin and or Robertson performs in the regular season. I doubt we move a guy who has performed pretty well for us, if the other options don't pan out. If they don't pan out, moving Holl also makes us cap compliant. Moving Holl out, is dependent on Sandin playing well enough on the right side.

Kicking the can down the road, allows us to evaluate both our Kerfoot replacement options, and our Holl replacement options. Whether player personnel wise, we can afford to move either, or maybe even both.

One of the question going in was who plays 2nd line wing? Malgin gets first crack.

As he should. No harm in trying other options along the way though.

 

[Havoc]

Sometimes the difference between a 3rd/4th liner, and a 2nd liner, is opportunity. It's a long season, a number of shifts together isn't going to sabotage the year. Even if you think the probability of success isn't very high, trying new things, that might work, could have a good payoff.

Going to have to disagree when we're talking about the winger beside JT and Nylander.

Nylander looks ready to eclipse 90 points and JT spent his entire summer in the gym to get back to vintage JT. They deserve someone with a high offensive ceiling on their wing, not a hail mary option like hoping Engvall suddenly becomes a top 6 player. Even if he does, his skillset still hinders Nylanders total output. He doesn't have the offensive awareness to keep up with Nylander being a step ahead of the play.

I would be comfortable using Engvall if hands were completely tied, but since they're not it falls more into 'holding second line back from it's potential' territory for me.

 

[Nineteen67]

It doesn't have to be a contender. Kerfoot is a good pickup for any team that can afford him...except for a tanking team I suppose.

He will have value at the TDL as well. Especially if retained.

As of now there are only 9 teams with enough cap space with Ottawa, Nashville and Columbus the only “playoff contenders“.

It's not as if we, the fans on HF board have to do anything, and I'm sure Dubas is aware of the situation, and his options. Right now we are kicking the can down the road, and while we don't hope for injuries, you never know what could happen. Maybe we kick the can down the road a little bit further later... who knows.

We likely are going to need to shed a few contracts as well at some point.

Before moving Kerfoot, we probably want to see how Malgin and or Robertson performs in the regular season. I doubt we move a guy who has performed pretty well for us, if the other options don't pan out. If they don't pan out, moving Holl also makes us cap compliant. Moving Holl out, is dependent on Sandin playing well enough on the right side.

Kicking the can down the road, allows us to evaluate both our Kerfoot replacement options, and our Holl replacement options. Whether player personnel wise, we can afford to move either, or maybe even both.



As he should. No harm in trying other options along the way though.

I think there’s a market for Holl, too and moving him is probably the best option.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Off top my head is Engvall is 4th in line for 2LW try with the current players we own but you wouldn't ever get to him because you'd stop at Kerfoot.

If we have to try combo no.4 that is the sign its time to trade for one. Either genuine one or build your career success type like Bunting.

I'm wrong. He's my personal 5th. Jarnkrok showed quick shot. I'd try him over Engvall to put in puck from the slot

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

He doesn't have the offensive awareness to keep up with Nylander being a step ahead of the play.

Very underrated point overlooked. You can't just put players into the top 6 based on physical traits. Mental aspect is very important.

Kerfoot has the IQ to keep up that's why he can be a ES point leader if you play him in top 6. His problem isn't reading the play his problem is execution / completing what needs to happen next (so now you move into physical)

 

[Fogelhund]

Going to have to disagree when we're talking about the winger beside JT and Nylander.

Nylander looks ready to eclipse 90 points and JT spent his entire summer in the gym to get back to vintage JT. They deserve someone with a high offensive ceiling on their wing, not a hail mary option like hoping Engvall suddenly becomes a top 6 player. Even if he does, his skillset still hinders Nylanders total output. He doesn't have the offensive awareness to keep up with Nylander being a step ahead of the play.

I would be comfortable using Engvall if hands were completely tied, but since they're not it falls more into 'holding second line back from it's potential' territory for me.

You aren't committed to such an experiment all year, if it doesn't work out. It's amazing that people are resistant to just giving something a shot. Of course, if Malgin is tremendous on that line, or Robertson, you don't bother... but giving different looks, trying different things... there is no harm, and you can always go back. It's a long season.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Camp is over baby, no more ball tickling. Time to play.

 

[Shooter2x]

Very underrated point overlooked. You can't just put players into the top 6 based on physical traits. Mental aspect is very important.

Kerfoot has the IQ to keep up that's why he can be a ES point leader if you play him in top 6. His problem isn't reading the play his problem is execution / completing what needs to happen next (so now you move into physical)

+1

All this talk about speed, skill, physicality, it's actually "smarts" that wins cups.

Top 6 and top 4 should be smart for their roles. Bunting barely makes the cut. His IQ finishing around the net is jvr-lite so that got him to pass.

Engvall in your top 6 is moving backwards not forwards. Definition of bandaid.

 

[Sypher04]

I’m not particularly an Engvall fan but I think he certainly could work in a fringe top 6 role. With that said, I think in this group, he’s more valuable to us as a bottom 6 forward. We have many guys who “could work” for in that higher up role, whereas Engvall has show to be a stronger two-way player than some of those other options.

 

[zeke]

I don't understand the issue here. Our cap specialists are able to go full wizard mode on the cap. That's a good thing. You can always make wiggle room by shedding from the bottom up. I like how we have 100% utilization.

The only thing left is to find a good GM to pair with these elite cap specialists. The current flat cap number is more than enough to win with that core so when I see these flat cap excuses pop up, all I see is the GM sucks at building around the core.

Not sure why flat cap excuses would apply.

The Leafs are both one of the very best teams in the league under the cap and have done that without lowering their shortterm caphits with longterm commitments to the 35+ twilight years of their current players like most every other team.

Why would the Leafs need any kind of flat cap excuse?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

There are...they spend to the cap and too many deals with agents. In the end GM have take back bargaining control. The cap system leads to this type of bargaining. GM s are not bargaining experts, just player evaluation experts.
Once you fall pray to the system, it is just luck after that and a little manipulation.
The system was set up because GM over spent, now they are forced to over spend for superstars and punish average players with crumbs left over.
Like I said, the agents set the scale.

So you don't like people being paid appropriately?

 

[ShaneFalco]

The Leafs are both one of the very best teams in the league under the cap and have done that without lowering their shortterm caphits with longterm commitments to the 35+ twilight years of their current players like most every other team.

How is a team considered "one of the very best" if they fail year after year to win a single round!? Oh right expected wins.....

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Da Leafs are an LTIR team heading into 2022 season .. 2.15M over da CAP .. and we are not playing our best lineup with Robertson out .. this is not brilliant mgmt .. it is capology skill from Pridham yes but not good mgmt

 

[Fogelhund]

Dom from the Athletic's ranking of the Top 100 NHL players.

 

[ACC1224]

View attachment 592465


Dom from the Athletic's ranking of the Top 100 NHL players.

I'd move Marner to 1C.
Is Tavares not listed?

 

[Fogelhund]

Da Leafs are an LTIR team heading into 2022 season .. 2.15M over da CAP .. and we are not playing our best lineup with Robertson out .. this is not brilliant mgmt .. it is capology skill from Pridham yes but not good mgmt

See that's the thing. I don't think it's necessary to ice your best lineup in game one. I think it's necessary to qualify for the playoffs yes, but more importantly, it's learning/teaching/training towards having your best possible lineup in the playoff and what that could be. Putting Malgin on Waivers, just to ice your best lineup in game one, might not be the wisest. Malgin gets claimed, and you've lost that option. Malgin has been fantastic in pre-season, and last year in Europe, but we really need some regular season games to see if that's the case for a bigger sample, against legit NHL teams. If he's good enough, (and Robertson too) it's gives you options to maybe move a guy like Kerfoot.

It would be foolish to move Kerfoot for an unproven Malgin or Robertson, but if they prove they are roster worthy, to create that best lineup, then you have options. Imagine Dubas moves Kerfoot, stuck Malgin/Robertson in the lineup, and then they weren't good enough?

The regular season is a journey, no real need to worry about game one rosters. Robertson is likely in the lineup in game two anyway, when they can use an emergency call up.

I'd move Marner to 1C.
Is Tavares not listed?

Tavares is in 4A.

 

[ACC1224]

Tavares is in 4A.

Thanks....missed it, print is a little small for me.

 

[zeke]

View attachment 592465


Dom from the Athletic's ranking of the Top 100 NHL players.

FYI thats not just Dom's rankings. His model is an input but that's a bunch of eye tests joining together for a ranking.

 

[kb]

Is Liljegren standing on Malgin or something? Because Engvall is 6'5".

 

[ULF_55]

Jarnkrok Matthews marner
Bunting Tavares Aubel-Kubel
Nylander Kerfoot Malgin
Engvall Kampf Aston-Reese

Bunting Matthews marner
Tavares Nylander Malgin
Jarnkrok Kerfoot Aubel-Kubel
Engvall Kampf Aston-Reese

Bunting Matthews marner
Engvall Tavares Malgin
Jarnkrok Kerfoot Nylander
Aston-Reese Kampf Aubel-Kubel

Lots of mix and match options.

But we know there aren't going to be any surprises.

Bunting Matthews marner
Jarnkrok Tavares Nylander
Engvall Kerfoot Malgin
Aston-Reese Kampf Aubel-Kubel

 

[Fogelhund]

Is Liljegren standing on Malgin or something? Because Engvall is 6'5".

Just the angle of the picture.