Training Camp Battle: Hatakka, DeSimone, Kovacevic

[dgibb10]

Kovacevic should have a spot because of assets invested in him, and being the most likely to be claimed off waivers.

What would DeSimone/Hatakka have to do to earn a spot on the roster (I'd expect/hope to see MacDermid sent down if one of them does win a spot).

How worried are we about waivers for Hatakka and DeSimone? Maybe during the season when injuries come into play they'd be a risk, but in terms of opening season waivers I'm not worried about losing either.

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[Bleedred]

I'm not sure either Hatakka or DeSimone would get claimed on waivers, at least not at the start of the season, but I'd say there's a greater chance DeSimone passes through than Hatakka, just due to age.

Hatakka is still pretty young, so maybe someone might like him and thinks he has some potential. DeSimone is like 30 years old and has only played 38 NHL games in his entire career. Maybe Calgary would like him back? They had him for several years. including when we took him off waivers. But I really don't think he'd be a hot one on the waiver wire.

As far the original question, I think the organization is highest on Kovacevic. He has the most NHL experience of the 3.

 

[JK3]

Kovacevic is the clear #7. The other two will be in the A to start the season.

Not worried if either are claimed if they have to go through waivers.

MacDermid is not getting sent down, he’ll be rotating as an extra forward when face punching is needed.

 

[dgibb10]

I'm not sure either Hatakka or DeSimone would get claimed on waivers, at least not at the start of the season, but I'd say there's a greater chance DeSimone passes through than Hatakka, just due to age.

Hatakka is still pretty young, so maybe someone might like him and thinks he has some potential. DeSimone is like 30 years old and has only played 38 NHL games in his entire career. Maybe Calgary would like him back? They had him for several years. including when we took him off waivers. But I really don't think he'd be a hot one on the waiver wire.

As far the original question, I think the organization is highest on Kovacevic. He has the most NHL experience of the 3.

The question is just how much leeway does Kovacevic have?

Like last season Nemec 100% outplayed Miller, Bahl, and Smith to earn a spot, but started the year in the AHL to preserve slide rule.

How much better do Hatakka / DeSimone have to look compared to Kovacevic to earn a spot.

If 24 year old Hatakka looks fantastic, I think you have to keep him.

But I think MacDermid would be the one to go instead of Kovacevic, keeping a veteran D just in case.

DeSimone I think if he vastly outplays Kovacevic will get the job over him, regardless of the sunk cost of DeSimone

 

[Bleedred]

The question is just how much leeway does Kovacevic have?

Like last season Nemec 100% outplayed Miller, Bahl, and Smith to earn a spot, but started the year in the AHL to preserve slide rule.

How much better do Hatakka / DeSimone have to look compared to Kovacevic to earn a spot.

If 24 year old Hatakka looks fantastic, I think you have to keep him.

But I think MacDermid would be the one to go instead of Kovacevic, keeping a veteran D just in case.

DeSimone I think if he vastly outplays Kovacevic will get the job over him, regardless of the sunk cost of DeSimone

I think they'd probably have to be a TON better to get in over him.

Then again, I never thought last July that a couple of rough preseason games would have Colin Miller relegated to the scratch box on opening night/opening week, while the guy that was relegated to 7th defenseman by the final quarter of last season would be an every nighter, which would continue for just about the entire season (the Smith part, not Miller being a healthy scratch), except for when he was an injury scratch.

So you really never know.

 

[dgibb10]

I think they'd probably have to be a TON better to get in over him.

Then again, I never thought last July that a couple of rough preseason games would have Colin Miller relegated to the scratch box on opening night/opening week, while the guy that was relegated to 7th defenseman by the final quarter of last season would be an every nighter, which would continue for just about the entire season (the Smith part, not Miller being a healthy scratch), except for when he was an injury scratch.

So you really never know.

Didn't miller get injured early in the year?

Anyway likely doesn't matter, since outside of an unlikely Hatakka emergence I fully expect Kovacevic to win the job pretty easily

 

[Bleedred]

Didn't miller get injured early in the year?

Anyway likely doesn't matter, since outside of an unlikely Hatakka emergence I fully expect Kovacevic to win the job pretty easily

He was injured after opening night. If I'm not mistaken he was injured in practice a few games into the season?

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

I'm not sure either Hatakka or DeSimone would get claimed on waivers, at least not at the start of the season, but I'd say there's a greater chance DeSimone passes through than Hatakka, just due to age.

Hatakka is still pretty young, so maybe someone might like him and thinks he has some potential. DeSimone is like 30 years old and has only played 38 NHL games in his entire career. Maybe Calgary would like him back? They had him for several years. including when we took him off waivers. But I really don't think he'd be a hot one on the waiver wire.

As far the original question, I think the organization is highest on Kovacevic. He has the most NHL experience of the 3.

Both are good players but DeSimone is a one-way I believe so that limits a few; Hattaka is a no risk grab for some team so idk how thatd go

Seems like we may have an unnecessary logjam there but - what does it really hurt?

Though idt Fitz's plan is to let them both be claimed so it wouldnt shock me to see us keep a 23-man roster for a change with MacDermaid DeSimone Kovacevic, with Foote waiver eligible (?)

 

[tailfins]

No way we keep 5 right shots.

DeSimone would need at least one but likely two injuries.

Hatakka needs to beat out the 14th forward. Won’t be easy since that’s likely MacDermid.

 

[Nubmer6]

Both are good players but DeSimone is a one-way I believe so that limits a few; Hattaka is a no risk grab for some team so idk how thatd go

Seems like we may have an unnecessary logjam there but - what does it really hurt?

Though idt Fitz's plan is to let them both be claimed so it wouldnt shock me to see us keep a 23-man roster for a change with MacDermaid DeSimone Kovacevic, with Foote waiver eligible (?)

I don't think one way or two makes a difference. I think we keep DeSimone up because he can fill in at either forward or D, and Fitz seems to like him.

I'm not so convinced Hataka gets claimed. I can't imagine many teams wanting to risk a roster spot on such an unproven player. He'd have to be significantly better than whoever he'd force the team to send down. They also better be pretty sure they'll keep him up, since waiving him to send him down would allow us to snatch him back. I know it's a business, but you really don't want to jerk a player around like that. It's just not a good look.

 

[njdevils1982]

Kovacevic is the clear #7. The other two will be in the A to start the season.

Not worried if either are claimed if they have to go through waivers.

MacDermid is not getting sent down, he’ll be rotating as an extra forward when face punching is needed.

no punch to the face , i need a 5 knuckle chuckle, orangeville ontario. mid 90s. i remember these guys put out cassettes on the scene. (like everyone else in a band)

.... what a time.

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

I don't think one way or two makes a difference. I think we keep DeSimone up because he can fill in at either forward or D, and Fitz seems to like him.

I'm not so convinced Hataka gets claimed. I can't imagine many teams wanting to risk a roster spot on such an unproven player. He'd have to be significantly better than whoever he'd force the team to send down. They also better be pretty sure they'll keep him up, since waiving him to send him down would allow us to snatch him back. I know it's a business, but you really don't want to jerk a player around like that. It's just not a good look.

For the salary staying on the cap it makes a difference I believe

 

[Nubmer6]

For the salary staying on the cap it makes a difference I believe

Ugh. I got DeSimone mixed up with MacDermid for some reason.

DeSimone is basically a career AHLer. I'm not worried about losing him at all.

And no, demoting him doesn't keep his cap hit. One way vs two way just refers to how much he'll make if he's sent down, nothing else.

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Ugh. I got DeSimone mixed up with MacDermid for some reason.

DeSimone is basically a career AHLer. I'm not worried about losing him at all.

And no, demoting him doesn't keep his cap hit. One way vs two way just refers to how much he'll make if he's sent down, nothing else.

Ah okay - so then its the salary teams wouldnt want to pay for the AHLer , thats what I was trying to get at

I knew the one vs two way had implication and was likely why we signed him to it

 

[tailfins]

Ah okay - so then its the salary teams wouldnt want to pay for the AHLer , thats what I was trying to get at

I knew the one vs two way had implication and was likely why we signed him to it

One-way vs two-way deals shouldn’t have much of an impact on a waiver claim.

If a team claims someone, it is for their NHL team. So, regardless of the type of contract, they’ll be earning their NHL salary.

To send a claimed player to the AHL, the team would need to waive the player again. This allows any other team to claim the player for their NHL team or for the original team to claim the player for their AHL team.

Also, there is no AHL salary cap, so that’s not an issue.

So, really, contract status should be relatively minor when teams consider waiver claims.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I really wish we didn't have MacDermid. He's not going anywhere and we might lose an actual hockey player as a result.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

i actually don’t mind having MacDermid on the roster. It helps to have a bench pilot that isn’t missing out on development time. And like it or not, even if it’s all in their heads, players like having a goon on the roster. As long as he’s not costing us games on a weekly basis, there should be more than enough depth in the org to keep him insulated.

He may even score a goal! Wouldn’t that be something?

 

[Bleedred]

i actually don’t mind having MacDermid on the roster. It helps to have a bench pilot that isn’t missing out on development time. And like it or not, even if it’s all in their heads, players like having a goon on the roster. As long as he’s not costing us games on a weekly basis, there should be more than enough depth in the org to keep him insulated.

He may even score a goal! Wouldn’t that be something?

If he only was used a bench pilot (for the most part) then I would agree with all of this.

He’s going to play more games than any of us would want, if I had to guess. And it won’t be because a significant amount of forwards are injured or sick.

Its funny, I read a few things like “the Rempe effect” in regards to our offseason acquisitions, but I think the only “Rempe effect” there is for us was trading for MacDermid (remember, he was the first in-season acquisition that was made last year) and then extending him for 3 years. Which is something all of us here laughed at Lou for doing when he signed Ross Johnston to a 4 year deal. And I guess Matt Martin before that, although he’s probably the second most popular goon around the league behind Ryan Reaves. Or at least he was as of 2020 when he got his last 4 year deal.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

If he only was used a bench pilot (for the most part) then I would agree with all of this.

That is, indeed, a massive if.

Games-wise, i’m not that worried. It’s the minutes that worry me. If he plays and he gets 6-9 minutes and someone gets double shifted and his linemates aren’t getting completely caved in every night, i think that’s acceptable. But we’ll see.

 

[dgibb10]

That is, indeed, a massive if.

Games-wise, i’m not that worried. It’s the minutes that worry me. If he plays and he gets 6-9 minutes and someone gets double shifted and his linemates aren’t getting completely caved in every night, i think that’s acceptable. But we’ll see.

I'm not worried about him getting caved in on the ice as much as I'm worried about all the stupid penalties he takes in his 7 minutes on the ice

 

[forceten]

I don't think this will be much of a battle.

You just don't get it.
They're keeping Kovacevic
Learn to accept it
or else you're so pathetic

 

[Brodeur]

If other teams have injuries in camp, maybe they'll look at Hatakka/DeSimone but that's not something I'd lose sleep over. Most teams have every spot filled and/or have similar tweeners to make decisions on.

Anaheim, Tampa, and Pittsburgh maybe have spots for another depth veteran D. Vegas seems like they'll have to move somebody unless they plan on carrying 8D. Conor Timmins isn't the type of D that the Pens need, but I can't help but wonder if Kyle Dubas would be interested if he hit the waiver wire.

Handful of UFA D still available: Oliver Kylington, John Klingberg (hip injury), Kevin Shattenkirk, Calen Addison, Mark Giordano, Travis Dermott

Ballpark D by division:

Anaheim:
Fowler-Gudas
Dumoulin-Mintyukov
LaCombe-Luneau
Vaakanainen
Zellweger-Helleson

Calgary:
Weegar-Andersson
Bean-Miromanov
Bahl-Pachal
Hanley

Edmonton:
Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Broberg
Kulak-Ceci
Brown

Los Angeles:
Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Spence
Edmundson-Clarke
Englund-Burroughs
Moverare

San Jose:
Ferraro-Rutta
Walman-Emberson
Vlasic-Benning
Thrun
Mukhamadullin

Seattle
Dunn-Larsson
Oleksiak-Montour
Evans-Borgen
Mahura-Fleury

Vancouver:
Hughes-Hronek
Soucy-Myers
Forbort-Desharnais
Friedman

Vegas:
Hanifin-Pietrangelo
McNabb-Theodore
Hague-Whitecloud
Hutton-Korczak

Chicago:
Martinez-Jones
Korchinski-Murphy
Vlasic-Brodie
Kaiser

Colorado:
Toews-Makar
Girard-Manson
de Haan-Brannstrom
Malinski

Lindell-Heiskanen
Harley-Dumba
Smith-Lyubushkin
Lundkvist

Minnesota:
Brodin-Spurgeon
Middleton-Faber
Merrill-Bogosian
Chisholm

Nashville:
Josi-Fabbro
Skjei-Carrier
Lauzon-Schenn
Stastney

St. Louis
Leddy-Parayko
Suter-Faulk
Joseph-Kessel
Perunovich
Krug (LTIR)

Utah:
Sergachev-Marino
Valimaki-Durzi
Cole-Kesselring
Kolaychonok-Soderstrom

Winnipeg:
Morrissey-DeMelo
Samberg-Pionk
Heinola-Miller
Stanley-Coghlan

Boston:
Lindholm-McAvoy
Zadorov-Carlo
Lohrei-Peeke
Wotherspoon

Buffalo:
Byram-Dahlin
Power-Jokiharju
Samuelsson-Clifton
Bryson

Detroit:
Chiarot-Seider
Edvinsson-Petry
Gustafsson-Holl
Maatta

Florida:
Forsling-Ekblad
Mikkola-Schmidt
Kulikov-Boqvist
Bjornfot
Balinskis

Montreal:
Matheson-Savard
Hutson-Guhle
Xhekaj-Barron
Harris-Reinbacher

Ottawa:
Chabot-Jensen
Sanderson-Zub
Kleven-Hamonic
Roos-JBD

Tampa Bay:
Hedman-Cernak
McDonagh-Perbix
Moser-Raddysh

Toronto:
Rielly-Tanev
OEL-McCabe
Benoit-Liljegren
Hakanpaa (LTIR?)
Webber-Timmins

Carolina:
Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Walker
Gostisbehere-Chatfield
Stillman-Morrow
Smith

Columbus:
Werenski-Severson
Provorov-Jiricek
Johnson-Gudbranson
Svozil-Blankenburg

New Jersey:
Siegenthaler-Hamilton
Hughes-Pesce
Dillon-Nemec
Kovacevic
Hatakka-DeSimone

NY Islanders:
Romanov-Dobson
Pelech-Pulock
Reilly-Mayfield
Bolduc

NY Rangers:
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider
Harpur-Ruhwedel

Philadelphia:
Sanheim-Ristolainen
York-Johnson
Seeler-Attard
Zamula

Pittsburgh:
Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
Grzelczyk-
Aho-St. Ivany

Washington:
Fehevary-Carlsson
Chychrun-Roy
Sandin-van Riemsdyk
Alexeyev-Bear (player assitance?)

 

[My3Sons]

I tend to think Vilen and Misyul are going to outplay Hattaka to put it in perspective but to me it’s an easy decision to send down DeSimone and keep a lefty and righty in reserve rather than two righties.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I tend to think Vilen and Misyul are going to outplay Hattaka to put it in perspective but to me it’s an easy decision to send down DeSimone and keep a lefty and righty in reserve rather than two righties.

E

I tend to think Vilen and Misyul are going to outplay Hattaka to put it in perspective but to me it’s an easy decision to send down DeSimone and keep a lefty and righty in reserve rather than two righties.

My thoughts exactly.
However, I think both of them can play both sides. I know Hatakka did in Utica.

 

[devilsblood]

If he only was used a bench pilot (for the most part) then I would agree with all of this.

He’s going to play more games than any of us would want, if I had to guess. And it won’t be because a significant amount of forwards are injured or sick.

Its funny, I read a few things like “the Rempe effect” in regards to our offseason acquisitions, but I think the only “Rempe effect” there is for us was trading for MacDermid (remember, he was the first in-season acquisition that was made last year) and then extending him for 3 years. Which is something all of us here laughed at Lou for doing when he signed Ross Johnston to a 4 year deal. And I guess Matt Martin before that, although he’s probably the second most popular goon around the league behind Ryan Reaves. Or at least he was as of 2020 when he got his last 4 year deal.

He may play more games then most fans want, but he probably won't play more minutes. Last season he averaged 4:19 of toi per game.

So the silver lining of playing Mac is, we see less of the 4th line, and more of the top 9. Maybe that doesn't go for the entire 4th line, but at the very least, guys from the top 9 will double shift with the 4th liners.