Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[zlev]

You want him getting 7 mins a night on the 4th line?

yes, he's the kind of guy that would fit on a 4th line.

 

[17futurecap]

Good

 

[duhmetreE]

Good

"But I had reservations at Le Bernadin for a late lunch"

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I expect several guys to be out with groin strains after this one

 

[SRHRangers]

Lafy has to go through waivers. He’d be traded before theyh put him on waivers. Don’t people know this

I was trying to be facetious.

Point was the others earned it and I don't want them to be blocked the same way LaF was blocked originally.

Three years and LaF went full circle.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

yes, he's the kind of guy that would fit on a 4th line.

That makes no sense. Playing him on the 4th line would kill his development. He’s got more talent and potential than to be a 4th line player. Either he’s in the top 9 or he’s in Hartford.

 

[savebyrichter94]

"But I had reservations at Le Bernadin for a late lunch"

 

[zlev]

That makes no sense. Playing him on the 4th line would kill his development. He’s got more talent and potential than to be a 4th line player. Either he’s in the top 9 or he’s in Hartford.

well there's a top 9 spot for him but it looks like the coach is gonna put goodrow there instead lmao

 

[NYR94]

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Hoping that by the midpoint Kakko will be given a role here

 

[CasusBelli]

"But I had reservations at Le Bernadin for a late lunch"

Without Hank there to tell them that jacket is required, half of them wouldn't get in anyway.

 

[SRHRangers]

If Kakko isn't on PK, he better be on PP1

 

[NYR Viper]

I like the idea of using the depth guys for primary PK roles. It's very shot blocking heavy which can lead to injuries. I would like to see Kaako out there but perhaps if someone is injured at some point

 

[GAGLine]

I was trying to be facetious.

Point was the others earned it and I don't want them to be blocked the same way LaF was blocked originally.

Three years and LaF went full circle.

well there's a top 9 spot for him but it looks like the coach is gonna put goodrow there instead lmao

Even if they were to get 3rd line ice time, they wouldn't get significant PP or PK time. They are both better off getting top minutes in all situations in Hartford. Let them dominate there, then bring them up.

As good as they've looked at times, we have to remember that these are preseason games. Lots of players have looked good in preseason and then done nothing in the regular season. Lias Andersson made the team, then tripped over a wire and his career has gone downhill ever since. Brett Howden made the team on the basis of a good preseason, and then people complained about him for the next 3 years, saying, ironically, that Lias should have gotten the spot over him.

People have complained that we rushed Kakko and Laf, citing that as the reason they haven't lived up to their draft status. Let's not do the same with Othmann and Cuylle. If either or both are actually ready to be every day NHL players, then let them go down to Hartford and prove it. Better that than we keep them on the roster, waiving players that we might lose to make room, and then finding out they aren't really ready and having to send them down.

 

[Mac n Gs]

well there's a top 9 spot for him but it looks like the coach is gonna put goodrow there instead lmao

Goodrow is almost certainly just a placeholder for Chytil in today’s lineup

 

[cheech70]

Panarin – Zib – Kakko
Kreider – Trocheck – Othmann
Laf –Filip – Wheeler
Bonino – Goodrow – Vesey

I like these ......Oth should stay..put head case 13 with Filip as a security blanket

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kakko on the 2nd PP unit. Le sigh. 25 seconds of PP time again, no time to set up.

 

[SRHRangers]

Even if they were to get 3rd line ice time, they wouldn't get significant PP or PK time. They are both better off getting top minutes in all situations in Hartford. Let them dominate there, then bring them up.

As good as they've looked at times, we have to remember that these are preseason games. Lots of players have looked good in preseason and then done nothing in the regular season. Lias Andersson made the team, then tripped over a wire and his career has gone downhill ever since. Brett Howden made the team on the basis of a good preseason, and then people complained about him for the next 3 years, saying, ironically, that Lias should have gotten the spot over him.

People have complained that we rushed Kakko and Laf, citing that as the reason they haven't lived up to their draft status. Let's not do the same with Othmann and Cuylle. If either or both are actually ready to be every day NHL players, then let them go down to Hartford and prove it. Better that than we keep them on the roster, waiving players that we might lose to make room, and then finding out they aren't really ready and having to send them down.

I would want Othmann at RW2 right away.

Put him with Krieder and Trochek and let him play his game.

 

[Savant]

Goodrow not on the 4th line is gross.

I will never forgot that with Gourde, Coleman and Goodrow all available Drury went out of his way to get Goodrow.

 

[NYR Viper]

The concern I have for anyone playing on line '3' is not that they are playing on line '3', it's more about special teams playing time. For example, if Lafreniere and chytil are playing on line '3' with Wheeler, they will likely see a good amount of ES playing time as the top-3 lines should see about even ES playing time. That should be ~13-15 minutes per game. That plus 1-2 minutes of special teams playing time is a good number for both of those guys (15-17 minutes a night).

The issue I had last year was that they were seeing almost NO special teams time.

In contrast, if either Othmann or Cuylle make the team and play in the top-9 they will presumably not be on special teams. That will mean they should be hovering around 13-15 minutes of ES time. That's a good number for both of those players where they are in their development.



All in all, I don't care who is on what top-9 line, as long as there is some chemistry. ES time should be pretty even through those lines. It's all about special teams and based on what we are seeing, the PK is going to be made up almost fully of the depth guys (Bonino, Goodrow, Pitlick, Vesey) so it will be up to Laviolette and team to police the PP usage better.

 

[NYR Viper]

I will never forgot that with Gourde, Coleman and Goodrow all available Drury went out of his way to get Goodrow.

I mean Coleman was also a UFA but he got $5.9m and scored 38 points last year. Gourde was already signed in TB @ $5.166m so that trade would have required real assets most likely. The Rangers traded peanuts for Goodrow's UFA rights.

 

[Savant]

I mean Coleman was also a UFA but he got $5.9m and scored 38 points last year. Gourde was already signed in TB @ $5.166m so that trade would have required real assets most likely. The Rangers traded peanuts for Goodrow's UFA rights.

And they still chose wrong. They could have traded for Coleman UFA rights, and they at least would have traded for a right winger which they actually needed. Gourde went in the expansion draft. Rangers chose the worst of the three, chose poorly and gave a six year deal. At that contract they probably could have gotten two of the three if they just let Goodrow hit FA

 

[SA16]

The concern I have for anyone playing on line '3' is not that they are playing on line '3', it's more about special teams playing time. For example, if Lafreniere and chytil are playing on line '3' with Wheeler, they will likely see a good amount of ES playing time as the top-3 lines should see about even ES playing time. That should be ~13-15 minutes per game. That plus 1-2 minutes of special teams playing time is a good number for both of those guys (15-17 minutes a night).

The issue I had last year was that they were seeing almost NO special teams time.

In contrast, if either Othmann or Cuylle make the team and play in the top-9 they will presumably not be on special teams. That will mean they should be hovering around 13-15 minutes of ES time. That's a good number for both of those players where they are in their development.



All in all, I don't care who is on what top-9 line, as long as there is some chemistry. ES time should be pretty even through those lines. It's all about special teams and based on what we are seeing, the PK is going to be made up almost fully of the depth guys (Bonino, Goodrow, Pitlick, Vesey) so it will be up to Laviolette and team to police the PP usage better.

I think having a PK largely of the depth guys is a pretty bad idea. Scoring on the PK is important and makes a huge difference. EDM and VAN both had at least 15 shorthanded goals last year. Anaheim, San Jose, Washington all had less than 5. Getting those extra goals effectively makes your PK even better. I'd use the depth guys on the PK when the team has at least a two goal lead but when behind or the game is close I'd rather play the guys that may actually score.

A lot of teams have went away from PK's fully containing bottom six players at this point. Scoring on the PK isn't really a fluke either. If you look at the forwards with 250+ 4v5 mins the last 3 years, outside of Scott Laughton and Mattias Janmark it's pretty much all top six players in the top 20 in pts/60.

If we have a PK with Bonino/Goodrow/Pitlick/Vesey they better be extremely good defensively because they're not likely to chip in much. I'd probably use Zibanejad/Kreider/Trocheck/Bonino/Goodrow/Vesey. Pitlick hasn't PK'd that much recently/throughout his career.

 

[NYR Viper]

And they still chose wrong. They could have traded for Coleman UFA rights, and they at least would have traded for a right winger which they actually needed. Gourde went in the expansion draft. Rangers chose the worst of the three, chose poorly and gave a six year deal. At that contract they probably could have gotten two of the three if they just let Goodrow hit FA

I'm less concerned with Goodrow's term as some. Come this off-season, I think we will start to see depth pieces costing more than what Goodrow has received.

I think I would say that I would prefer Goodrow to Coleman and I would prefer Goodrow to the rumored price tag for Gourde back at that same time (1st +)

 

[NYR Viper]

I think having a PK largely of the depth guys is a pretty bad idea. Scoring on the PK is important and makes a huge difference. EDM and VAN both had at least 15 shorthanded goals last year. Anaheim, San Jose, Washington all had less than 5. Getting those extra goals effectively makes your PK even better. I'd use the depth guys on the PK when the team has at least a two goal lead but when behind or the game is close I'd rather play the guys that may actually score.

A lot of teams have went away from PK's fully containing bottom six players at this point. Scoring on the PK isn't really a fluke either. If you look at the forwards with 250+ 4v5 mins the last 3 years, outside of Scott Laughton and Mattias Janmark it's pretty much all top six players in the top 20 in pts/60.

If we have a PK with Bonino/Goodrow/Pitlick/Vesey they better be extremely good defensively because they're not likely to chip in much. I'd probably use Zibanejad/Kreider/Trocheck/Bonino/Goodrow/Vesey. Pitlick hasn't PK'd that much recently/throughout his career.

I mean I guess?

If we are looking at stats just from last years team though:

Kreider had 4 SH goals
Zibanejad had 1 SH goal
Vesey had 1 SH goal
Goodrow had 0 SH goals
Bonino had 0 SH goals

Let's assume that playing Kaako on the PK gets the team 4 SH goals, to match Kreider's from last year which was for the team lead and that bumps Bonino off the PK. Those 4 goals could be difference makers, or they could be nothing in terms of points in the season. There is also the concern of losing a player to a blocked shot while on the PK for said 'ideal' 4 added goals.

I can see both sides a bit but we aren't really talking a huge swing in goal totals.

Just as an aside, is the added risk to someone like Zibanejad for his 1 SH goal worth it over playing someone like Bonino who may be just as adept defensively and on the PK if Bonino scores 0 SH goals?