Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeahhhh I don't usually understand the love affair some have with Brodz but he was awesome last night. Easily the best forward out there.

 

[NYR Viper]

I will say that a line of:

Cuylle-Trochek-Kaako

Has the makings of a very good top-9 line. They have chemistry building between the 3 of them

 

[duhmetreE]

Would be best to have those two kids in Hartford developing and on standby for call ups as opposed to waiving a pitlick or a Bonino who is a very solid center. Have to be smart with your depth and those two are waiver exempt and should be playing big mins in Hartford. Going to need them this year not necessarily just next week

that's the unfortunate truth. It'd be nice to see them from the get-go though...

On the contrary, would someone pick up Pitlick if he was waived?

 

[mas0764]

The 2015 that won the President's trophy and lost in Game 7 of the ECF was maybe a contender? That team wins the Cup if Zucc doesn't get hurt, or even still if he gets hurt but McDonagh, Staal, Girardi and Yandle all weren't playing through major injuries, they win.

You don't think the Rangers were contenders when they made it to the SCF in 2014? That team most likely wins the Cup if Chicago made the SCF instead of LAK who were the worse matchup.

The conversation was in relation to preseason or in-season "rankings" (subjective, certainly) of "true contenders." The poster I was talking with posited that there seems to be a cut off at around 5 (in vegas odds) in terms of most of the Cup wins; that teams as low as 8 make the finals way more often but don't win it.

So yes I would say in 2014 we would have been one of the 8 - that, according to historical precedent, made the finals and lost - but not one of the 5. I have maintained that number is more like 3-4 on a yearly basis. They win most of the Cups, that is the point. We have to crack into that group and we aren't there yet and traditionally we never get into that tier. We are always more in the 8-10 range which is where I posit we were most of the Henrik years.

The one year I would say we weren't was maybe our 2015 where we won the Presidents trophy. That would be a year I would say we were a legit contender and the results did bear it out - losing in 7 in the conference finals.

And that's exactly the point. Being one of those elite 3-4 teams on a more consistent basis will mean more consistent conference finals appearances.

Instead, in the Lundqvist years, we were a Hall of Fame goalie and a group of also-rans at forward and it showed. We topped out at about a second round team, at about that 8-10 range, and we spent a decade there. Sure, sometimes we overachieved and went further (2014) but the fact is that the math was very, very against us winning the whole thing, or multiple Cups (which should be the goal).

We are essentially back in that same boat right now (unless our 5v5 play improves dramatically). I would say we are better than the Hank years but not substantially. We are not in that group of elite teams because we never finished our rebuild off the right way (or we weren't patient enough to keep sucking like NJ Did until they had tons of elite talent including a young star in Hughes).

I get that you're very focused on teams being built a certain way but a the end of the day the results are what matters and teams that get that deep are contenders.

What results? We don't get the results! This is the delusion too many are under. We had a fortuitous run last year and then got dispatched by NJ this year in Round 1. This is what I am saying we have been stuck at historically and are possibly stuck at again. And now it appears Carolina and NJ are yet again ahead of us - possibly for a while unless Laf and Kakko make big jumps.

We don't get the results we want. We have to crack into that group of elite teams (elite long term cores with staying power, really) and we have no real way to add more talent to get there now. We are cap strapped (can't sign or trade for impactful veterans) and we are not picking high enough in the draft to select one. The time for adding core pieces is over and this core is back to the "get into the playoffs and hope for breaks because 3-4-5 teams are clearly better than us" stage again.

This franchise is pretty good at turning the team into a solid playoff team, but just awful at getting over the hump. That is the part we bailed out on yet again.

 

[Vitto79]

I will say that a line of:

Cuylle-Trochek-Kaako

Has the makings of a very good top-9 line. They have chemistry building between the 3 of them

I’d be happy if Cuylee can step in allowing Vesey , Bonino, Pitlick to rotate in and out

 

[Vitto79]

This. 100%.

I’m happy if Cuylee does . At this point he should

I’m ok with Othmaan called up later

 

[will1066]

The biggest thing about Othmann and Cuylle, besides their physical attributes, is that they look comfortable and are not out of position or chasing the game. That's huge. It shows they can process what's happening at the NHL level. You can't do anything without being in position. Last night was regular season pace. NJ is fast. That Othmann takeaway early was very noticeable in how he anticipated and read the play.

 

[NYR Viper]

that's the unfortunate truth. It'd be nice to see them from the get-go though...

On the contrary, would someone pick up Pitlick if he was waived?

I think he might.

You know what would be a GOOD move by Drury? Waiving Goodrow so that he can, on paper, send him down on the off-days to accrue cap space. I would highly doubt anyone takes that contract and the savings would be $1.125m on those off days. I would do the same thing with whoever is the 7D

 

[mas0764]

Despite the usual comically over the top negativity, I really think this team is ready to take a leap based on how a lot of the new faces and young kids look. The defenseman jumping into the play with more frequency is going to give the roster a new dimension 5v5. We spoke about it last season, particularly with K'Andre, but Gallant clearly was harping on the D to stay back and give up the blue line, which didn't fit our personnel at all. Clearly Laviolette and his staff have made it an emphasis.

It's so tempting to keep Cuylle and Othmann around with the big club. As I mentioned yesterday, the staff is clearly grooming Cuylle to be our Wilson. And Othmann's game is similar to Marchand's. The defensive play he made leading to a couple chances early on set the tone. Daneyko (who is great) was fawning over him.

Wheeler, Gustafsson and Bonino look like great finds for the roles theyll have here. Wheeler can protect the puck and break up and make passes. He will look good playing against 3rd liners if the plan is too play him with Trocheck and a Kid(which i like). Gustafsson is primed to be a guy who earns himself a big contract somewhere else, the offense is great but he made Schneider look much more comfortable today when they were paired together. It's a bit of a shame it's not gonna work out with Zac Jones here barring injury. I thought he improved as the game went on. Bonino is just the veteran 4th line center we've needed forever. Great defensive instincts and the coaches had him shadowing Hughes with good success.

Thought Lafreniere wasnt bad on the right side. I think the bigger issue was that Mika is clearly not 100% healthy ( he was falling down a lot) and Kreider is on auto-pilot at this stage of the preseason (which is allowed). His long term future here is no longer certain with how Cuylle and Othmann have developed, but they need to stick to their plan and keep getting him reps on the right side with good players.

My inclination would be not to rush Cuylle or Othmann if they will benefit in Hartford more.

 

[SA16]

I think he might.

You know what would be a GOOD move by Drury? Waiving Goodrow so that he can, on paper, send him down on the off-days to accrue cap space. I would highly doubt anyone takes that contract and the savings would be $1.125m on those off days. I would do the same thing with whoever is the 7D

That would probably be a good way to ensure that future free agents do not sign with us without a NMC.

 

[NYR Viper]

That would probably be a good way to ensure that future free agents do not sign with us without a NMC.

Why? He doesn't have to physically go anywhere. Explain to him that this is just a paper transaction and that the team just needs to accrue cap space for the deadline. He likely won't be picked up by anyone due to term and cap hit.

 

[mas0764]

That would probably be a good way to ensure that future free agents do not sign with us without a NMC.

Perhaps this is a hidden benefit actually.

 

[SA16]

Why? He doesn't have to physically go anywhere. Explain to him that this is just a paper transaction and that the team just needs to accrue cap space for the deadline. He likely won't be picked up by anyone due to term and cap hit.

Because nobody who signs an actual long term deal wants to be at risk of being claimed on waivers every so often - especially someone who negotiated in a NTC to partially control his own destiny.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Despite the usual comically over the top negativity, I really think this team is ready to take a leap based on how a lot of the new faces and young kids look. The defenseman jumping into the play with more frequency is going to give the roster a new dimension 5v5. We spoke about it last season, particularly with K'Andre, but Gallant clearly was harping on the D to stay back and give up the blue line, which didn't fit our personnel at all. Clearly Laviolette and his staff have made it an emphasis.

It's so tempting to keep Cuylle and Othmann around with the big club. As I mentioned yesterday, the staff is clearly grooming Cuylle to be our Wilson. And Othmann's game is similar to Marchand's. The defensive play he made leading to a couple chances early on set the tone. Daneyko (who is great) was fawning over him.

Wheeler, Gustafsson and Bonino look like great finds for the roles theyll have here. Wheeler can protect the puck and break up and make passes. He will look good playing against 3rd liners if the plan is too play him with Trocheck and a Kid(which i like). Gustafsson is primed to be a guy who earns himself a big contract somewhere else, the offense is great but he made Schneider look much more comfortable today when they were paired together. It's a bit of a shame it's not gonna work out with Zac Jones here barring injury. I thought he improved as the game went on. Bonino is just the veteran 4th line center we've needed forever. Great defensive instincts and the coaches had him shadowing Hughes with good success.

Thought Lafreniere wasnt bad on the right side. I think the bigger issue was that Mika is clearly not 100% healthy ( he was falling down a lot) and Kreider is on auto-pilot at this stage of the preseason (which is allowed). His long term future here is no longer certain with how Cuylle and Othmann have developed, but they need to stick to their plan and keep getting him reps on the right side with good players.

Agree with a lot of this, but of the few things that really jumped out to me last night, how good the 3rd pairing of Gus-Schneids is going to be. Schenider looked very comfortable playing next to him, and 3rd pair/PP2 is perfect role for Gus maybe.

Didn't love how Laf looked last night, he looks destined for the 2nd line.

 

[NYR Viper]

Because nobody who signs an actual long term deal wants to be at risk of being claimed on waivers every so often - especially someone who negotiated in a NTC to partially control his own destiny.

I mean, in fairness his contract is high and he is getting paid very well for what he provides

 

[SA16]

I mean, in fairness his contract is high and he is getting paid very well for what he provides

Yea, it'll work for him but probably have a negative effect down the line.

 

[McRanger92]

My inclination would be not to rush Cuylle or Othmann if they will benefit in Hartford more.

I think that's the right move. There is zero doubt they'll be with the big club by playoff time.

 

[bleedblue94]

Wheeler, Vesey, etc.

37 year old Wheeler scored 16 goals last season. 16 goals. That's what we're afraid we can't replace. Guy looks like he's 90 years old on the ice. Hunched over. can barely skate. And we're flipping out trying to figure out ways to commit to 37 year old Wheeler.

In typical Rangers form. They have a skilled, physical 1st round pick ready to take the step and play in the top 9 with other skilled players, and the Rangers would rather commit to 37 year old Wheeler who can't skate.

Last deadline they added 34 soon to be 35 year old Kane with a hip that needed surgery. Instead of committing to their 1 and 2 overall picks. People still want to add him.

Same shit different day in Rangers land.

Glad others are starting to see it with Wheeler, point totals aren't the only important thing and usually players still accumulate points if constantly plugged into top6 and pp roles regardless of their decline, neither of which was the role we needed here at this time...

Gustafsson has a good shot and can move the puck. Played physical too. That 6D race is already over, the rest is to keep up appearances, protect against injury and build Jones trade value.

It was over when he signed here, gusto signed as the d6.

Jones doesn't have an NHL future here.

 

[McRanger92]

Would be best to have those two kids in Hartford developing and on standby for call ups as opposed to waiving a pitlick or a Bonino who is a very solid center. Have to be smart with your depth and those two are waiver exempt and should be playing big mins in Hartford. Going to need them this year not necessarily just next week

I think Jonny B has made a case to be the 13th forward out of camp. Cuylle comes up with the first IR stint. Othmann comes up in December after a 20 game run in the A

 

[Kendo]

The conversation was in relation to preseason or in-season "rankings" (subjective, certainly) of "true contenders." The poster I was talking with posited that there seems to be a cut off at around 5 (in vegas odds) in terms of most of the Cup wins; that teams as low as 8 make the finals way more often but don't win it.

Just to be clear, it was "more than half of the time, a team ranked WORSE than 8th makes the finals, but only won 1/10." Funny enough, exactly 8th didn't make a single one. If you include 7th, then 9/10 times 7th or worse makes the finals, winning 2/10.

So yes I would say in 2014 we would have been one of the 8 - that, according to historical precedent, made the finals and lost - but not one of the 5. I have maintained that number is more like 3-4 on a yearly basis. They win most of the Cups, that is the point. We have to crack into that group and we aren't there yet and traditionally we never get into that tier. We are always more in the 8-10 range which is where I posit we were most of the Henrik years.

The one year I would say we weren't was maybe our 2015 where we won the Presidents trophy. That would be a year I would say we were a legit contender and the results did bear it out - losing in 7 in the conference finals.

In 2014, we were 14th. In 2015, 9th. Obviously underrated both years, but that's because our F core was lacking on paper, but G, D, and system carried us.

We don't get the results we want. We have to crack into that group of elite teams (elite long term cores with staying power, really) and we have no real way to add more talent to get there now. We are cap strapped (can't sign or trade for impactful veterans) and we are not picking high enough in the draft to select one. The time for adding core pieces is over and this core is back to the "get into the playoffs and hope for breaks because 3-4-5 teams are clearly better than us" stage again.

This franchise is pretty good at turning the team into a solid playoff team, but just awful at getting over the hump. That is the part we bailed out on yet again.

We have already added more talent, but we have to let them cook. In a video game, I'd run with Othmann and Cuylle on the 3rd and 4th lines, but in reality those two are our "deadline acquisitions." Going forward, you still have Perreault, Sykora, BMB, and Berard incubating.

Our G and D are stable and already both top 5. We have so much youth in the depth of our F core organizationally, that I'd bet dollars to donuts that the natural progression of those kids outpaces any drop off of AP, MZ, CK, and VT over the next three years.

Heck, if AL and KK hit that 55pt "Kreider level" production this season, then I think we are already set up to be a top 5 team next season. Big if, but still.

 

[duhmetreE]

Jones doesn't have an NHL future here.

Jones is signed for 2 years. They will drag him around like Hajek as the 7D

 

[McRanger92]

Jones is signed for 2 years. They will drag him around like Hajek as the 7D

This is very true. Drury isnt giving anyone away, for better or worse.

 

[bleedblue94]

My inclination would be not to rush Cuylle or Othmann if they will benefit in Hartford more.

Cuylle has a year under his belt and has been impactful all preseason. If he is in a top 9 role he should be here to start the season. If it's a 4th line roll he should be in the ahl.

Otter should start in the ahl regardless and be there until new years. It will do wonders for him.

Jones is signed for 2 years. They will drag him around like Hajek as the 7D

Gorts was attached to hajek from the trade and that's why he was kept here. Drury is not attached to Jones.

Apples and oranges.

 

[duhmetreE]

Gorts was attached to hajek from the trade and that's why he was kept here. Drury is not attached to Jones.

Apples and oranges.

then why did Drury drag him around?

He's a cheap 7D with potential and can play both sides.

 

[bleedblue94]

This is very true. Drury isnt giving anyone away, for better or worse.

Dryden Hunt says hello