Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[NickyFotiu]

I don't advocate us tanking this season, for example.

I bemoan the fact that we did not properly complete our rebuild and I'm against foolish expenditures of more futures for minimally increasing our odds this year (renting).

And I would judiciously continue to find opportunities to win long term value transactions even if it meant short term losses this season; because being all in on the short term is very clearly the worst approach to team building and winning.



I want us to win the Cup in 2023-24. I don't have a ton of faith that we will unless Laviolette revolutionizes our 5v5 play and a lot of our players, both young and old, look a lot better than they have under the past 2 admins. If they do not radically improve especially at 5v5 under a third coach, I would say it essentially settles the matter that we are not talented enough, which I suspect, and I will call scoreboard on the fact that our rebuild was cut off too early and we need to start considering when to start again.

If we do look tons better and Laf, Kakko, and Chytil all look great and Othmann, Cuylle, etc, all look like middle sixers of the future, if Perrault is tearing it up and looking like he will be joining in two years, etc, and it's all because Muse and Peca and company are developing our kids into stars, then the rebuild did in fact work and we will likely win a Cup or Cups.

I suspect the former option is by far the most likely though.

If you do not want us to tank and you want us to win games in 2023-24 that is good. We are wanting the same thing then.

 

[zlev]

You know what killed us? That Buchnevich trade.

I understand why it was done, but with that return, you take your chances with cap difficulties.

i think if Blais didn't get murdered by Subban it would've looked a lot better. he was effective before that but then as time went on I guess he just didn't want to be here anymore.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I mean, most teams in this cap league have holes and have fans ranting about how they'll never win a cup because etc etc
I'm not really sure the rangers tanking another few years would have made a difference, we'd probably just all be ranting about how they couldn't draft a #1 center and let zibanejad go

taking a step back this is a team with arguably the best defenseman in hockey, the best goaltender in hockey, one of the most dynamic wingers in hockey, a top center, and two high draft picks and assorted talented parts

To me it's not "oh no we needed to suck for a few more years" it's how to fit these pieces together in order to make that cup run. Rebuilding usually doesn't work like "ok now we've got every piece we need in the right place peaking at the right time and on a sweet heart deal so we're far under the cap and can spend luxuriously"
I guess you can argue that the devils hit on that but there's a huge amount of luck rather than being able to plan on it, and they have yet to win anything

And you're also missing that assuming we did continue to tank for a few more years, theres no 100% guarantee that laf and kakko break out, plus even more importantly, its not easy to flip a team from missing the playoffs/tanking, to winning consistently, pure talent doesn't win games if it does, edmonton would've had 3 cups already.

The rangers kept veteran guys who knew what the playoffs felt like, insulated the kids for a few years, and continued stacking a legit farm system.
Hartford has the most talent Ive seen. We're a little thin on defense but we still have guys who are going to push for an NHL spot in that roster.

We are actually well balanced in terms of age distribution, our offense isn't top heavy, or pure grit offense like the tort years. We have a potentially stiffling defense, who can actually generate offense.

Last season the only teams younger than us by age per minute were (Data )
Sabers
Blue Jackets
Coyotes
Senators
Devils
Canadians
Red Wings

Of that list 1 other team made the playoffs.

The Oldest 5 teams
Pittsburg
Capitals
Bruins
Lightning
Flames

The window is significantly open, and the next 2 years are going to be the best time, and we have the roster to do it.

 

[leetch99]

The Rangers have the 7th-8th best cup odds and somehow that's not good enough for some people lol. The chances they win the cup either this year or next year is greater than the chance of any individual team winning this year.

I kind of like where we are at ...we have a nice mix and some kids waiting for a chance . I think Kakko will really become the player he should be this season and I think it will pull Laffy up as well and we see him really come alive down the stretch . We need Miller and Schneider to also take another step ... and if that happens we are cooking with gas !!! I am expecting it to be a fun season . Go Rangers !!!

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I like being underdogs, i think this team will start cooking with fire close to end of November.

 

[Kendo]

Why would the 8th best odds be good enough? Lol. It's decidedly indicating you are on the outside looking in.

I was curious, so I went back to check how preseason odds related to Cup winners and runners up.

2014: Kings (5) def Rangers (14)
2015: Blackhawks (1) def Lightning (7)
2016: Penguins (5) def Sharks (18)
2017: Penguins (4) def Predators (7)
2018: Capitals (3) def Golden Knights (29) (LOL)
2019: Blues (11) def Bruins (6)
2020: Lightning (1) def Stars (10)
2021: Lightning (3) def Canadiens (15)
2022: Avalanche (1) def Lightning (2)
2023: Golden Knights (7) def Panthers (3)

More than half of the time a team worse than 8th makes it to the finals, but only the Blues won after being ranked worse than 8th. "Top 5" looks to be the sweet spot to be called a true contender.

I firmly believe we are trending upwards from 8th. We are due for a little bit of a drop-off in Panarin's production over the remainder of his contract, but most of our older core should stay pretty much at their current level (counting Kreider as a 55+ pt guy, not his 75+ aberration). Our younger core should only improve. If one or two of our kids acclimate well to the right side, then we are absolutely cooking.

We already have a perennial Norris guy, and there's no telling how high Miller's ceiling is. Igor should stay a top 5 G in the world for the foreseeable future.

I believe we will have better odds one year from now, unless we trade an important piece. Whether we hit that top 5 or not lies mainly on the progression of the younger half of our forward group.

 

[mas0764]

More than half of the time a team worse than 8th makes it to the finals, but only the Blues won after being ranked worse than 8th. "Top 5" looks to be the sweet spot to be called a true contender.

I’ve consistently argued there are 3-4 true contenders at a time and we have yet to be one of them since winning the Cup in ‘94, so this tracks. Maybe we were in 2015.

I firmly believe we are trending upwards from 8th. We are due for a little bit of a drop-off in Panarin's production over the remainder of his contract, but most of our older core should stay pretty much at their current level (counting Kreider as a 55+ pt guy, not his 75+ aberration). Our younger core should only improve. If one or two of our kids acclimate well to the right side, then we are absolutely cooking.

I’m far more concerned about substantial drop off as we are on borrowed time for CK, AP and MZ already.

But I hope so.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider Zibs Kakko
Panarin Chytil Laffy
Othmann Trocheck Wheeler
Cuylle Bonino Goodrow
Pitlick/Vesey/Brodz

Lindgren Fox
KAM Trouba
Gus Schneids
Jones

 

[RGY]

Brodzinski stinks lol

 

[duhmetreE]

The only player that can help Laffy is Panarin.... trust.

 

[NYR Viper]

Brodzinski stinks lol

Was I watching a different game?

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I know its preseason but laff was totally invisible tonight. Cuylle looked significantly better than laff. Scary how bad laff looked

 

[17futurecap]

Was I watching a different game?

He had a 98.94 xgf%, people just hate him.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Brodzinski stinks lol

He stinks at scoring but he was all over the ice tonight

 

[RangersFan1994]

Lafreniere gets a chance with skilled players and noticeable for the wrong reasons.. give Cuylle or Othmann a chance on top line. Lafreniere is just isn't good at hockey. He should pick a different career. I'm done with this bust

 

[duhmetreE]

What does Zegras or Petterson realistically cost?

Assuming Laffy is one of the 'main' chips.

 

[RangersFan1994]

What does Zegras or Petterson realistically cost?

Assuming Laffy is one of the 'main' chips.

Lsfy doesn't have much value. Zegras where does he play? Wing or move Chytil or Chytil to wing?

 

[RGY]

He stinks at scoring but he was all over the ice tonight

Thats awesome. Glad he was all over the ice only to do the same thing he always does, which is not putting the puck in the net. Guy loves sniping glass.

Lafreniere gets a chance with skilled players and noticeable for the wrong reasons.. give Cuylle or Othmann a chance on top line. Lafreniere is just isn't good at hockey. He should pick a different career. I'm done with this bust

Smh. Thanks for not overreacting.

Par for the course for you though.

 

[Kords]

I see we’ve waited all of 1 pre season game to give up on the Laf at RW experiment.

So anyway, can’t believe they rushed the rebuild!!

 

[bl02]

Thought Wheeler was pretty good to. He is a big boy and hard to get the puck from. Hopefully with the patience he shows it will lead to some good offense.

I see we’ve waited all of 1 pre season game to give up on the Laf at RW experiment.

So anyway, can’t believe they rushed the rebuild!!

Actually it's two games
Not giving up on him at RW I just think at this point it should be Kakko at 1RW.

 

[Ori]

The only player that can help Laffy is Panarin.... trust.

I agree he has the hockey IQ for such a role.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Thought Wheeler was pretty good to. He is a big boy and hard to get the puck from. Hopefully with the patience he shows it will lead to some good offense.


Actually it's two games
Not giving up on him at RW I just think at this point it should be Kakko at 1RW.

Kakko is a better player

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I’ve consistently argued there are 3-4 true contenders at a time and we have yet to be one of them since winning the Cup in ‘94, so this tracks. Maybe we were in 2015.



I’m far more concerned about substantial drop off as we are on borrowed time for CK, AP and MZ already.

But I hope so.

The 2015 that won the President's trophy and lost in Game 7 of the ECF was maybe a contender? That team wins the Cup if Zucc doesn't get hurt, or even still if he gets hurt but McDonagh, Staal, Girardi and Yandle all weren't playing through major injuries, they win.

You don't think the Rangers were contenders when they made it to the SCF in 2014? That team most likely wins the Cup if Chicago made the SCF instead of LAK who were the worse matchup.

Were they not contenders when they also made the in the ECF in 1997, 2012 and 2022? I think if you make it to the final 4 teams (or 2) you were legitimate contender with a realistic shot at winning.

I get that you're very focused on teams being built a certain way but a the end of the day the results are what matters and teams that get that deep are contenders.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Post Game Interview and Game Highlights. Adam Fox, Will Cuylle and Peter Laviolette:

 

[Kords]

Thought Wheeler was pretty good to. He is a big boy and hard to get the puck from. Hopefully with the patience he shows it will lead to some good offense.


Actually it's two games
Not giving up on him at RW I just think at this point it should be Kakko at 1RW.

Yeah, I think Kakko deserves it too but if he’s playing with the same Mika and Kreider we saw tonight it wouldn’t even matter.

As things stand now, I’m more interested in moving Kreider down to the 3rd line before Kakko or Laf.